How to Heal Your Inner Child: Ehsun Anwar on Releasing Trauma & Finding Freedom

[00:00:00] Ehsun: I'm looking for women who are in some sense a victim to not receiving enough love so I can then save them and give them the love that my mother never got. And so I only came to this revelation earlier this, and then it hit me. I just got all these downloads about how I was around my mother and how I always felt like she's missing out and I need to please her, and I need to do what she wants.

[00:00:24] So when I would select women, it was all about find the one who looks perfect and really nice and ticks the boxes, and make sure you just give her the love for the sentiment. I was neglecting, what about my heart? What about me receiving love? What about what I actually want? So I would always pick women that I don't love. I just want to save them.

[00:00:55] Kate: Welcome back to Rawish. We've got another great episode for you here today. This is really for anyone who has parents. And I know that sounds silly and funny, but I really do mean that. So yes, this is a show for everyone. How often can you say that? And it's so powerful that I really want to dive right in.

[00:01:14] We have a lot to get to. I've already gotten emotional with our guest today before I even hit record. He's coming to us from the UK, Ehsun Anwar, who is a life coach, a former attorney, a former athlete, and really just someone who made my head and my heart and my soul explode by the content that he's creating online.

[00:01:35] I'm so grateful that I stumbled upon him. I know that was not by accident, and he's just opened my soul so deeply. I've only known him for five minutes, and I can't wait to introduce him to you because he's going to change your life and your world too. So Ehsun, welcome to the show. How are you?

[00:01:51] Ehsun: Thank you so much, Kate. That was a lovely introduction. I'm feeling excited. As you said, we had a little pre-chat before we started this, and there's a lot that's going to come into this show. So I'm grateful to be here, and I'm excited to speak with you.

[00:02:05] Kate: Thank you so much for who you are in the world and the work that you're doing to help all of us heal. I've been deeply immersed in a healing journey the past couple of years especially, and when I saw your work online, it really spoke to me because you do a lot of work talking about healing the inner child and mother wounds and father wounds. And even if we grew up with incredible parents or parents who we know deeply loved us, all of us are flawed humans, and there is no playbook on how to be a parent.

[00:02:37] And a lot of parents are at the effect of how they were parented and don't even know that you can heal and that you can change and evolve. And I think younger generations are starting to tap more into that. But for those of us who aren't even aware, and I want to get to your background as well, what is a mother wound? What is a father wound, and how does it impact us?

[00:03:01] Ehsun: So in short, the mother wound is any emotional damage that you've received from your mother, and it can be from your father. And what I mean by that is, what is your blueprint of love, your blueprint for love or a relationship? Does it involve putting your needs last? Which it is for many women growing up.

[00:03:22] And the moment you can sense that your mother's unhappy, you are feeling guilty. You have this heaviness in your belly, this overthinking mind. How can I please mom? And if I don't do, as mom says, if I talk too loud or I don't come home early enough, or I don't cut myself into the little box that she wants me to be in, I'm not a good daughter or son.

[00:03:45] And then that translates when we're adults into all sorts of relationship dysfunctions. So for girls, the most common one is putting your needs last. And so that's why girls will typically attract the man who has all this, what we can call craziness going on. He wants to use you. He wants you to mother him.

[00:04:02] He can be-- he wants your body for his full pleasure, and you are fulfilling his needs. You're thinking about him in every way that you could, just like you did for your mother. And then you're like, he knows nothing about me. Why does he never ask me how I am? And why does he not keep my heart safe?

[00:04:20] That's really because believe it or not, your mother didn't keep your heart safe, as much as we all like to deny that. When we were kids, we have our mother on this angelic pedestal because she's the embodiment of the feminine energy in our life, love. And as children, we're so innocent. We don't really like to see anyone in a bad light.

[00:04:41] Plus, we'll know, we'll be told off for it. So the mother wound is particularly sneaky because we have this mental construct going on that says, "I can't look at mom in a bad way." So actually, we put everything she does on a pedestal, the punishments she gives to us, the withdrawals of love, the sneaky insults and digs and little things she says about how we're not good enough.

[00:05:03] That actually becomes intertwined into our blueprint of love. So now you see a man who's macho alfa, maybe a bad boy. That's what every girl has in the early phase. We confuse that for little bits of damage we receive from mom and dad. So if this guy's bold enough to rip into us a little bit, we're like,"Oh, I'm getting excited over that."

[00:05:24] It's bringing up that chemical reaction. So mother wound goes into the future, and father wound, as a repetition of your childhood. What is familiar from your childhood? And that is passed on. And then we have a similar thing going on for the father wound as well.

[00:05:39] Kate: Yeah. So many questions there. I don't want to hide anything. That's why I'm doing this show. It's so enlightening, and it's so liberating to hear you speak. And also, if you're watching on YouTube, you can see me holding my heart because it's really piercing into my heart, and it hurts, and it makes me sad because every single word you're saying resonates so deeply.

[00:06:07] Which if this is resonating deeply, if you're listening to this, I'm sorry. That is heartbreaking, and I feel for you. My heart goes out to you. I want to take just a step back before we go further, because how do you even come up with this information and come up with these insights that once you say it, I'm like, of course, that makes sense. But to even know about this at a young age too, how did this come about that you got into this work and that you have these downloads or this information?

[00:06:42] Ehsun: Yeah, good question. Thank you. So what's happening in the world right now is that there's a major gap between what we have in this psychology world, conventional, the people with the PhDs and your clinical psychologist. It's very good. They have a good structure of what is an attachment style, for example.

[00:07:01] Attachment theory is well published. It's very well known. It's very useful. But it's always based on thinking and information and data. So whenever you're thinking or you're grasping for information and data, you're essentially mind based.

[00:07:14] You're in here thinking and clinging for data. That's masculine energy. Mind is very good. It's brilliant. It's a good storehouse of data, and we can use that data to create blueprints and things like that. But at the same time, it's limited because mind is just a limited entity with bits of data that is recorded in the past.

[00:07:33] It's not the be all and end all. The reason we suffer so much with our mental health is because we're constantly looking to this. We're looking to what data we've already accumulated. Now, if you have a little box with a few bits of data in a few books, PhDs, and you think that's everything, you've guaranteed your suffering because you've limited yourself. This is the only possibility. There can't be more.

[00:07:57] So to answer your question, I did the opposite when I was a kid. I somehow, and I can't really take credit for this, I just had the gift of silence. I would just sit there as an absolute empty presence. No data floating around in my head. Just watching my mom and dad, just watching how they interact, and feeling with my heart, feeling with my whole body.

[00:08:21] Our capacity to feel is the opposite of mind. It's our feminine energy. You have a lot of it, by the way. It's our capacity to feel what is happening in the moment. What is the energy behind these words? So as young as three years of age, I would sit there and feel that something's missing from my father.

[00:08:40] So I would sit on his knee. I remember being three years of age and saying, abu,which means dad, do you love me? Do you love me? But do you love me? Do you love me? Because although he was providing all day, coming back and tired from work and bringing the money and doing all the things a man should, all the things a man has done through history, I, for some reason, could sense, at three years of age, something vital is missing.

[00:09:03] Not only do I feel like he doesn't love me. I feel like he's cruel towards me in many ways because of that emotional disconnection. So I know that that's just a gift given to me from the creator. It's a sense of perception I had, and that sense of perception stayed with me as I got older. So I would just watch how are people interacting. Now, the difference between me and most people is they don't really watch.

[00:09:26] They just become the chaos that is thrown at them. So if you're a little girl or boy, mom and dad are fighting, you just start crying. You want to block your ears. You want to get out of the way. You feel like it's my fault. Am I not good enough? Am I a burden on them? That's what you feel as a child. You become the chaos, and then your mind is like, this is fried.

[00:09:44] Once your mind is fried and jumping around and you're in compulsive patterns of trying to find a partner to fill the void that your mom and dad could never fill, it means you've become the pattern. I was just lucky enough to not become the pattern. It wouldn't fully hijack me. I got hijacked a lot still, but I had that silence, that stillness to observe what's happening in me and outside.

[00:10:09] And just by watching, I could see the patterns. And for me, it's quite easy. The stuff I say on Instagram, many of the videos are absolutely viral, and there's thousands and thousands of people saying, oh my God, oh my God, where did you know this? How did you learn it? And for me, it's like, I just thought it was basic knowledge. Because I just sat there watching. So honestly, like I said, I don't take credit. Every day I'm grateful to God for giving me this gift. I realize the world needs it. So I try to put as much out as I can. But that's how I learned it.

[00:10:40] Kate: Wow. Thank you for sharing that. I think the most impactful thing for me is being able to connect the dots from your work and your wisdom, again-- and I do say this with complete love-- without shaming or blaming our parents, but seeing the dots connected between how our parents loved us or didn't love us.

[00:11:04] How our parents were just unable or unwilling or didn't have the capacity to properly love us and nurture us. Like your dad, I'm sure he does love you and did love you, and like you even said in one of your videos, he's providing. He's coming home. Our bills are paid. We've got clothes on our back. We've got food on the table, and yet I don't feel loved by him.

[00:11:24] And so there is that disconnect. Intellectually, yes, he loves me, but emotionally you feel that disconnect. And I've certainly felt it. My dad fought in the Vietnam War, and it's that generation men, you shut it down. You don't show your feelings. My dad, he's 80 years old. He's cried once, and it's when Teddy, our beloved dog, died two years ago.

[00:11:47] And we were all heartbroken. Teddy was the love of my life as dogs are. And just to see my dad cry for the first time was sad. I was happy that he opened up, but again, that script that he was given at birth that you got too. I'm a man. I don't cry. Suck it up.

[00:12:08] But to see the dots connected between our parents' behavior or parents' limitations and then the romantic partners especially, but even business and friendships that we attract. Can you talk a little bit about the parallel between maybe the lack of love that you felt from your dad and then maybe some romantic partners that you've chosen, or even business partners, and how that showed up where then you had a deeper level of understanding of the impact of that childhood?

[00:12:33] Ehsun: I would love to, actually. Yeah, very relevant. So how these personal patterns showed up for me, and I'm going to give example, what I see my clients globally as well because I have a good idea now of the most common patterns. I'll start with the most common ones. Again, women being taught to put their needs last will tend to-- women tend to fall on quite extremes.

[00:12:53] So with the new wave of, I would say, women gravitating towards a lot of masculine energy, masculinized women going for the workforce and achieving the CEO, and I want to be a bad bitch and all these things, it's really a reaction to the pain of feeling inferior when you're purely in your feminine energy.

[00:13:14] If you're actually in your heart and you're nurturing the men around you, even when they're being dicks, you've been punished for it. Millennia of women have been punished for that. So now, unfortunately, women are throwing out the baby with the bath water. They're throwing out the gold, which is submissiveness, receptiveness, nurturing.

[00:13:34] Those are not weak words. If I say submissive, that's very triggering to a lot of women because you immediately associate it with, do what I say no matter what. That's not what it is. There's an enormous power to being submissive, which means following the lead and cooperating. It's just that women were not also taught how to decipher between what we call red flags and not.

[00:13:57] If you stay open, trusting, nurturing, and you have the intelligence to decipher what is a man with emotional intelligence, you'll be okay. You can always lead with your heart. You won't be crushed anymore. But when women throw the baby out with the bath water and put all their eggs in that basket, if I'll be the achiever, look after myself, what happens is they're then looking for a guy who's either more masculine than them, so willing to out masculine them. Can this guy check me?

[00:14:27] Will he call me out on my bullshit? He has to be very, very strong, and that's not the healthiest thing, by the way. He's likely to be that narcissistic type who's also going to abuse you. So that's not a good place to be. And if she doesn't go for the overly macho alfa, then the other thing she'll attract is the feminized man, which is a man who actually is looking for her to be the daddy in a way. She's the provider. She's going to look after me, and I'll just be there as the nurturing force, the feminine.

[00:14:56] So if you move to an extreme in your energy, then you'll attract another extreme in a way. So a lot of imbalances happen that way. So that's a common one with women. With myself, what happened is with my mother, I always perceived her as a victim to my father because he was the typical, we could say, a narcissistic type who's out working all the time, comes home, and can be volatile, has a frown on his face, can shout easily, would shout at me easily, has a temper.

[00:15:34] The love is there. The love is still there. He still wants the best for me. He's encouraging me. He's actually for it. He wants me to advance in my career. So it's quite well-balanced all in all. But still, I could sense that my mother feels quite sad all day long. Even though she has a smile on her face, she has a shift over her head, she's doing everything, again, with that perception I had, I could just sense that she feels alone.

[00:16:01] And when my dad comes back, she still doesn't feel full in her heart. She might be doing the duties of putting warm food on the plate and then they go to bed and they get up and they repeat, but I could sense that this is essentially survival mode. That's what I could sense.

[00:16:17] So what was my blueprint of love? Okay, this is how I be a man-- macho and earning and all of that. That was the masculine side for me. And how I relate to women is I'm looking for women who are in some sense a victim to not receiving enough love so I can then save them and give them the love that my mother never got.

[00:16:39] And so I only came to this revelation earlier this year in 2024, and I've been through four relationships. They each got healthier as they went along, but all ended obviously, and I'm just so happy right now because I've come to this remarkable revelation because the last relationship, which was on and off for three years, it's a long time to be confused. It wasn't nice, honestly.

[00:17:06] But I knew. I was patient with myself. I gave myself that compassion that, okay, you're just figuring out your patterns. And then it hit me like I just got all these downloads about how I was around my mother and how I always felt like she's missing out and I need to please her, and I need to do what she wants.

[00:17:22] So when I would select women, it was all about find the one who looks perfect and really nice and ticks the boxes, and make sure you just give her the love for the sake of giving her love. In that sentiment, I was neglecting, what about my heart? What about me receiving love? What about what I actually want?

[00:17:40] So I would always pick women that I don't love. I just want to save them. And actually recently, I just got into a new relationship, which I'm super excited about because it's the first woman that I'm choosing fully from a healthier place that I actually want.

[00:17:57] Kate: Wow. Well, congratulations on that.

[00:18:00] Ehsun: Thank you.

[00:18:00] Kate: It's just proof that when you do the work, it works. And sometimes I think we want to throw in the towel or think this isn't working, because even healing and progress can sometimes feel like we're regressing. And sometimes I think that because it's been years of the patterns that don't work, that we don't even feel. And I've had men communicate that to me, men that I have felt rejected by when I was in my 20s or 30s, that communicated I didn't feel worthy of you or your love.

[00:18:28] And maybe there's even that part of you that didn't feel worthy of even getting to select someone that you actually loved and that you don't have to save. It can be this equal partnership, the power couple, if you will. Everyone's in different levels of their healing journey.

[00:18:45] And my audience, I attract a lot of high achievers and people that want to learn and grow and evolve. And some people could be happily married or just married, some people single. Everyone's in a different place in their healing and relationship journey. But regardless of where they are and if you have a partner or not, how do you really heal these wounds?

[00:19:05] And I know it is a lifelong process, but really even begin to heal these wounds, even if you are married right now, so that you can show up in a healthier place for not just yourself but your partner. Or then that's where I'm at right now, where I can feel the hubby coming in because now I'm a vibrational match for someone so different than anyone I've ever experienced before.

[00:19:29] Ehsun: I'll give you some very direct and very powerful answers. I just got goosebumps before you were saying this because these are very recent. And the shifts that come, yes, healing is a lifelong thing, but big shifts can happen in a single healing session. Your whole life can change if you do this properly in a single session. I see this every day in my work, in my programs.

[00:19:51] So the first example I'll give is the example of a guy. He's from America. Most of my clients are from America actually. I love giving his example because he's the epitome of what we see as alpha male. For a start, he's six foot eight. So he is a physical giant. Multimillionaire, so he is got the financial part ticked. Just bought the dream house, got the dream cars. If you look at the physical elements of a man, it's all there, and it's on giant mode.

[00:20:24] Then he has the love of his life that he's met when they were in their teens. So they've been working out a hard thing. They got married, got divorced, and then they're still working out, and that's when he reaches out to me. So I believe it's around 30 years of on and off relationship. It's a very long time.

[00:20:45] After the very first session with him, his wife, they're crying together, and she says to him, oh my God, I want to submit to you. I want to be yours forever. I want to stand by you forever. I understand you now. And he was saying similar things because he could never again be that volatile, angry way towards her.

[00:21:07] And so here's how the healing is done. The first session with him, the most painful wound that most men carry is the father wound. The high achieving men are driven by the image of the father who's on the pedestal for being a superhero to them. Nothing wrong with that.

[00:21:28] That's prime masculine energy. That's why we have the Avengers so popular, because we love a big, strong, resilient hero. We love that. That's the history of humanity. But now slowly it's becoming redundant. Here's why. Usually to raise someone who's super disciplined like a Spartan, there's no emotional connection when you're young, and there's no praise. There's more, you look weak doing that.

[00:21:51] You're not good enough. This should have been better. This should be better. You should be better. You should be better. You should be better. That's what men usually hear. That's how you train someone in the military. So we go to the father wound in this guy, and he just breaks down.

[00:22:09] His whole body, shaking like this, tears coming down like rivers, howling out loud, howling. Because I created that safe space for him and said, look, brother, you have permission to open your heart here, because if you don't, you're just going to die from stress or divorce or whatever it is.

[00:22:30] So through meditation, first we silence the mind. Once you silence the mind, as I said in the start, you turn off that crazy ball of data. Only when you turn this off can you even know who you are. Because your memory is not who you are. Neither is your personality or your voice. So the first thing is I get people to see who even are you.

[00:22:53] So let's turn off your memory and data and all that. And then you can feel the grief and sadness and anger in the body. So then I direct him into his body, and we start to read that anger and the fabric of it. And then I direct them to where it's sitting in the father wound. And bam, the memory comes up of why to this day he feels rage.

[00:23:14] Why that's expressed towards his wife, why he feels like his wife doesn't love him, how he wants to be loved, why he feels like despite earning millions, he's not enough. So he comes home, he is in a bad mood, whatever it is, it's all because certain memories where, for example, he's raking the leaves and he's trying his absolute best, and his father says, that's not enough.

[00:23:37] Or he yells at him that you're still not enough. Or he'd never said these exact words, but I'm now going to use sentiments from other clients. You're a piece of shit. This wasn't enough. And so what men will do is they'll act tough. They'll cover it as though I was never called a piece of shit. But because I was called a piece of shit, women do this too, what I'll do is I'll get more clever.

[00:23:58] I'll get more intellectual. I'll get more pretty. I'll get lip fillers. I'll make my ass bigger. I'll wear a nicer suit. I'll wear Louis Vuitton. It's all compensation for the emotions of inadequacy that are buried deep down. So look, once you just release that reservoir of inadequacy from within, you are no longer walking around with this stuff inside.

[00:24:24] So now if someone pokes you, you get home and your wife hasn't texted you in six hours like she said she would, or the food isn't there, that little poke, there's nothing to explode inside anymore because your inside is becoming cleaner. So instantly you can see huge life differences as you're able to remove large chunks of energetic charge from your past, and is very possible.

[00:24:50] Kate: Thank you for that. And then I just think, make yourself dinner, or learn to self-soothe. I think my wound shows up as hyper independence and doing it all by myself, and now the tears flow because I'm exhausted and I'm like, I don't want to do it all on my own anymore.

[00:25:08] And I'm proud that I've been able to, and I'm great, and I'm grateful I'm not dependent on anybody, and I'm exhausted, and I would like to really partner and have an equal exchange of energy. It's one of those things where, because I've been doing the work and some days I have it down in spades and other days I'm like, wow.

[00:25:25] Like yesterday I got triggered again, and I was really upset by my father's inability to just even give me, when I'm down and need some support, the nurturing. Hey, how are you? Or, I'm so proud of you. And just wanting to feel that love, wanting to be seen and heard and acknowledged. And it sounds so simple, and the fact that grown adults don't know how to give that to someone that they love, not even someone they don't like, but someone that they love.

[00:25:52] And so I appreciate the example, and it is a practice as you know, but how can we continue to-- again, some days I have it, and other days I would like to call you and be like, I'm in this place, and I know I'm just going to sit in stillness, and I'm going to meditate, and I'm going to do all the things. I'm going to go on my nature walk. I'm going to call a trusted friend or coach like yourself, but I'm still angry, or I'm hurt, or I feel like I'm going around-- and you talk about it in your videos so eloquently.

[00:26:17] I keep looping around the five stages of grief, and some days I'm sitting pretty in acceptance, even though it's sad and painful, and then I go back into the frustration or anger or grief. How do we continue to release the layers and layers? Again, it can be decades for some of us of the grief, of not being loved properly by our parents. And maybe now we're not in those unhealthy patterns, but we're still feeling the lack or the loss or the grief.

[00:26:45] Ehsun: Yeah, yeah. Good question. Thanks. This is a great one, great one. The first thing I would say, and this took me a while to understand, is throw away what you think it means to be properly loved, that expectation. Because essentially we're holding a gun to our parents' head and saying, if you don't do things the way I want, then I'm going to call you a failure.

[00:27:08] And the pain of heartbreak I'm feeling, I'm going to say that's your fault. And it's an understandable thing. I did that all my life, and I still get poked here and there and see little pockets of where I'm still doing it subconsciously. So there's nothing wrong with it morally, judgmentally, but there is something wrong if you want peace.

[00:27:32] So unraveling those layers works like this. This is how I do it with my clients, and this changes everything for them. They're always gobsmacked when they see this. I take them on a journey through history. So I'll do a visualization meditation with them, say 10,000 BC or even 2,000 BC so they can see that what our ancestors had to go through.

[00:27:55] Because you and I are sat here today. We just wake up in the world one day and we're like, oh yeah, here we are. Oh, why is this not like this? Why are parents here? Why? Why like this? We just question everything. And that's like you and I are little specks here, where my fingers are, this little speck here. Above that speck is your mother and father. Above that speck is their mother and father. That's already three generations.

[00:28:20] It's a lot. In that three generations, you've got enough to write 10 books just from three generations. But three generations is a speck. You go back 300 generations, still a speck. You go back 1,000 generations, still a speck. And your body carries the memory of every single one of those ancestors.

[00:28:41] Not only that, but your body is here today, breathing functional with the privilege to have this conversation because those ancestors of yours who had to survive cold storms, barbaric bears, barbaric tribesmen, they had to switch off their emotional capacity and think about one thing every day, hypervigilance.

[00:29:03] How do we survive? Who do we need to kill today? Who do we need to sacrifice from our tribe today because they're slowing us down? So we'll cut them off and let them die. These are things that I access, as I said in the start, in our cellular memory. It's all here. You can know these things if you're able to read it.

[00:29:21] So when I saw what has been happening and why we're here, you get to a place of gratitude and understanding that others simply don't have. For example, when I say, even remotely defend narcissists, you could say that the traits they have are the reason we're living today. The traits that narcissistic people have and the emotional disconnection that we feel so wounded by today, we should actually be bowing down to on our knees.

[00:29:48] And I know that sounds really difficult and bold to say, but it's only because I have a higher perspective now. We're here because of those traits. If our parents and ancestors were not able to switch off and not give a damn about your feelings and just do what needs to be done, we would have gone extinct a very long time ago.

[00:30:07] So when you actually see this in the silence and depth of meditation, because right now a lot of people might get triggered by it, when you see it in a compassionate way and you feel it, and you feel the pain of your great-great-great-great grandmother and father, oh, you fall to your knees. You fall to your knees in tears.

[00:30:27] And so then what happens is, coming back to the present moment, when you get instances where your father or mother are gaslighting you, they're not thankful for how you're appreciating them, they're not thankful for how you're holding your tongue when you know they're being emotionally disconnected and you want to be kind for them, it's okay.

[00:30:47] It's okay, because you know what? You didn't need to lift a finger to be born. You didn't need to lift a finger in their generation or generations before. Every moment we have is a gift. We came here for free with nothing, and we'll leave the same way. So we're always in credit no matter what happens.

[00:31:05] So that perspective of extreme gratitude that I'm speaking from now, I understand it's very difficult to get to, and I'm not always in it, but to answer your question in one final line, for me, the answer is more meditation, more understanding of our history. Because when you get a greater perspective, you can't be as mad anymore.

[00:31:25] That doesn't mean you won't be triggered. You will be tested. I'll give one final example just now. There is a family holiday happening that I worked my ass off for the last four years to get some money through this work. Every penny I receive is from my soul. I feel like I manifested it by serving humanity. So I'm super proud.

[00:31:44] And I was like, cool, I'm finally going to dish out around 6,000 pounds for a family holiday, pay for everyone. So it's a good amount. And it happens, and just a two- week before it, my mother founds out something that I spoke to my brother about to help him. So I told him something to help him, for his help.

[00:32:03] She doesn't agree with the way I said it, so what she decides to do is withdraw her presence from the family holiday until and unless I go up to her house to basically help her and soothe her with the intensity of what was said. Because it was something intense. And understandably it can be upsetting for her to hear, but it doesn't actually involve her.

[00:32:27] It involves me and my brother directly. So I did my brother a tremendous favor by having this conversation. And what I get is a withdrawal of love and the gift that I've given. And so that was my latest gift and trigger. So how do you handle this? Well, knowing everything I know, I said, okay, I'm hurt. It broke my heart for sure.

[00:32:50] And that heartbreak, what I felt was the gift, because that's the remaining parts of my inner child that we all have still thinking, if I get abandoned in any way by my mom and dad, if they withdraw that love, I'm going to die. Which, by the way, is why you feel that deep pain.

[00:33:06] Why can't my father not emotionally connect? Because, listen to this carefully, in the past, if our parents did not emotionally connect, if they were not giving us attention, it's high chances we're not favored in the tribe or the family, and we're going to be left behind. We're going to die. The fear of abandonment, our big issue with not being emotionally connected is essentially the fear of death.

[00:33:30] But it's a trick. When you see that you're not going to die if your mom and dad don't connect, and you take those deep breaths and you heal the inner child wound, you continue to ascend in calmness. But it is terrifying at first for sure, but your calmness reaches phenomenal depth. And so now my solution is, okay, you guys go on holiday.

[00:33:49] I know you're all resenting me right now. That's what I said. It's okay. This is a gift of love from me. You do that. Even if you withdraw your love, mine will stay full. So that's what I said. And even then they were like, "No, our is not unconditional." Just didn't reply. So there's a lot of responsibility that comes with healing because you'll see things clearly that your loved ones are not seeing.

[00:34:13] But the question is, will you then use that as an ego trip to kind of lash back, or will you use it as fuel to awaken more? And that is very hard, but that's how the journey goes. Does it make sense what I just said? Because I know it was a lot.

[00:34:26] Kate: It makes perfect sense. And so many things are coming up as you're speaking, and I'm getting emotional here because this is the change I want to see in the world. Why I'm so happy you're here and being so honest and vulnerable is I see so many people, the huge names. You know them. I know them. Everybody knows them, and they're saying all the right words and they've written all the bestselling books, and they're doing all the coaching and have amassed a huge following.

[00:34:56] And I don't take that away from them, and I celebrate that. And I know some of these people off camera or off stage and they're out of alignment in their personal lives. They're cheating on their spouses. They have crappy relationships with their children. They're jerks to people who can't do anything for them in the material world.

[00:35:16] And what I love about you, and I can't wait to see you be the huge household name that you deserve to be is that you're in it. You're doing the work, and you're using personal examples. It's so refreshing, and that's why I'm emotional. Because I just cannot stand the fakeness in the world anymore.

[00:35:34] And so many disingenuous leaders. It's an election year in America, and the nastiness and all, it's so gross. And I try to disconnect from it, but it's a lot. And you see it with spiritual teachers and leaders too. And so thank you for doing this work and even giving a recent example.

[00:35:56] Because I think that sometimes with me, and I've just been disappearing from social media for a bit, just really doing this healing work on my own because I don't want to pretend. I don't want to put out an inspirational message when I'm really hurting on the inside or I'm really in pain based on my relationships with my parents at times and the issues that we're talking about.

[00:36:19] So I appreciate that. And it just leads me into my next question, and you did answer it, but for those of us who are like, yeah, but, or I still need more. I feel called to ask for myself and everyone listening. Okay. Intellectually, we understand because you're brilliant and articulate, but my heart still hurts. Or what do I do with this heartache, and I don't want it to affect current relationships, or I don't want to just sit at home by myself all the time to heal this. What do we do with the heartache? How do we transmute it?

[00:36:54] Ehsun: I was just thinking perhaps we could do a quick live example with you here if you're willing to be vulnerable for just a few minutes.

[00:37:01] Kate: Sure.

[00:37:02] Ehsun: Okay. If you close your eyes with me then and try to forget that we're filming for a podcast and if you keep your palms open facing the ceiling and you've grounded on the floor and your spine straight, just take some deep breaths with me.

[00:37:23] You can exhale. Open your mouth, and let go of control. Let go of how you're being perceived completely. It's okay. You can let it go. Just keep breathing deep into your belly, especially into your lower belly. Just a few deep breaths. Put everything into this. The only thing that matters right now is your breath.

[00:37:53] Your exhale is a let go of control. You can soften your neck and your shoulders and your jaw. There you go. Good. Let your awareness sink down to your belly. See the space under your belly button, in that cavity of the belly, just feel that you're not a head on two shoulders anymore. You actually can feel your very body. Now, in this moment, can you feel what is the biggest pain in your life? If I was to ask you what hurts you the most, in just a few words, what is the answer to that question?

[00:38:34] Kate: Not being loved properly.

[00:38:37] Ehsun: Okay. Not being loved properly. And can you feel the emotion that goes with that in your body?

[00:38:45] Kate: Yes. I'll just say the first thing that's coming to mind. I got anger.

[00:38:51] Ehsun: You have anger here. Good. Where is it?

[00:38:55] Kate: It's right there almost where I would be-- it's where some of us have a little belly fat. It's right there by the--

[00:39:03] Ehsun: Lower belly area, right?

[00:39:04] Kate: Yeah.

[00:39:05] Ehsun: Okay. So if you expand your lower belly and where that energy of anger is or feeling unloved, breathe directly into it as though it's a long-lost friend and you're curious to reunite with it.

[00:39:22] See, your breath is not just a breath. It's life force from the universe coming directly into you, and it's very giving; it's very nurturing. So a few deep breaths into the very center of that emotion, that feeling of anger as though you're expanding it with love, as though you're nurturing it and not judging it anymore as though it shouldn't be here.

[00:39:45] Allow your mind to be blank. A few more deep breaths, and don't wonder what happens next. What are we doing? Just be here as a silent, loving presence, holding that energy and keeping your awareness intensely but relaxed inside of that place. What's happened now to that area?

[00:40:14] Kate: It's being filled up with the color red, and I am literally in my uterus, in my womb. I'm holding myself like a little baby, a fetus, nine-month-old. I'm about to be born, but just holding and nurturing in this safe, warm cocoon place. And I'm seeing the color red, but it's very nurturing. And I just saw the word LOVE in all caps. It's just love there, nurturing.

[00:40:42] Ehsun: And how does that feel?

[00:40:44] Kate: It feels so good. I can feel it my whole body. I'm even just wanting to cradle myself for that baby, and it just feels warm and safe.

[00:40:52] Ehsun: And what about that feeling of anger or being unloved? Has that gone or is it still there?

[00:40:57] Kate: It's completely gone.

[00:40:59] Ehsun: Okay. So we can open our eyes. And that's just one very, very small, very quick example of when there is an energy present in the body of heaviness or nervousness, it simply wants your attention. And if you can give your attention lovingly directly into the body, you solve something that may have been sat there for decades.

[00:41:26] Even science has started to prove that if you put your attention on an intense emotion, in just a matter of minutes, the whole thing can dissipate. And that emotion may have been sat there since you were six years of age or in the womb even. So through this repetition, more emotions will come up because your body is a storehouse of your whole history, and you'll have the practice of constantly soothing your body and what it's feeling.

[00:41:55] And bit by bit you just ascend and you ascend to more calmness, more awareness. And there are other methods as well like I told you with the man before of actually seeing the wounded child and reconstructing the memory so you no longer feel like you were never good enough for your father. But essentially, we're very moldable. We can remold more memories and energies to become something that we wish to see in the world.

[00:42:22] Kate: I'm feeling it. I love that you do somatic work and really work with the body because I believe, and someone wrote a book about it, the body keeps the score.

[00:42:31] Ehsun: Yes. Bessel van der Kolk.

[00:42:33] Kate: I love that you-- yeah. And my whole life, I would say since early teens, had that lower stomach pain and have been to all the doctors and that it is in the body. And again, I didn't have the language or the knowledge back then that I do now. Now I see clearly exactly what was happening. But I love you getting me into the body and getting out of the mind and into the body.

[00:42:57] It's, for me, the best way to nail any speech or talk. You got to get in the body. It's more than just doing vocal warmups that singers do. It's getting into the body. And I'm feeling so many sensations right now, and just even then releasing it. How can we continue then to release some of the pain, the anger, the sadness, the hurt, the feelings of loneliness and grief?

[00:43:24] Ehsun: Yeah. You can do many variations of what we've done here. I do this in 20 different ways, and they're all just creative, intuitive. I just came up with them. You can do the same for yourself. One of the first questions you asked me, how do I gain that knowledge? Again, if you just silence your head and you're not really trying to figure something out, all I ask you to do is breathe deep first. Okay. So then head is quiet.

[00:43:51] We're not looking at the emotion as a problem to be fixed. We're not looking at it that way. We're just holding it lovingly. It's a very feminine energy thing to do. And you saw it actually in your mind, you holding yourself, I think it was. So holding your emotions over and over again is very important.

[00:44:10] Sometimes I'll ask my client a question, or you can do this for yourself. Where did I first experience this? So for example, the story you have, the mental story, I was never loved, you got to ask yourself, where did that first begin? And in a moment of silence, a lot of my clients will see themselves literally as a baby in the cot, or I think you guys call it crib, something like that, and they're crying.

[00:44:39] And mom or dad's not giving attention. And even as a baby, they were registering, oh my God, I'm being neglected. I'm not loved. I'm not loved. And that mental story grows and grows with ferocious momentum. And whatever mental story you live on, it influences your emotional body also. So if your story is, I was never loved, the body hears that and keeps the score, as Bessel says, and creates emotions that correspond to your mental story.

[00:45:07] So my mental story says I wasn't loved. My body says, oh my God, we're not loved, anxiety, guilt, anger at the mother and father who didn't love me. Then the mind listens to the body and says, oh look, we're feeling anger, guilt, and resentment. It must be true. We were not loved, and it's their fault. So then the thoughts get more ferocious, and then they both feed each other in this insane loop.

[00:45:29] Now, this loop is also how our identities get created. And if you're enslaved to an identity, you can never be awake. You can never be conscious. And that's the celebrity culture. You gave the example of Kanye Esto, Kim Kardashian, or it could be anybody. Once you've adopted an identity, I'm the great Kanye. I'm the great Muhammad Ali. I'm the great Barack Obama.

[00:45:52] And identity is still not who you are. But what happens is you get trapped in this loop of thought and emotion that now I'm this identity, and it is not who you are. And that's why we have wars, because people will fight and kill to uphold a fake identity instead of the truth of who we are. So what I did with you in breathing was take you into the truth of what's happening in your body.

[00:46:13] And if you just sit with the truth, it just dissipates. But you have to remove that mental story, that heavy identity. You have to be willing to die to that. And so the biggest challenge as you continue to heal is I've asked you to drop that expectation that I wasn't loved the way I want to be. And that's, like boom, straight away, slap in the face.

[00:46:33] And a lot of people are not willing to die to that identity. They're not willing to let go of the story that I wasn't loved, because that's been my best buddy my whole life. For 30 years I've felt like I was abused or I'm anxious because of my dad or whatever. And who am I if I let go of that? So then who am I if I let go of all of that?

[00:46:58] And the funny thing you realize is if you're willing to die to every story you have, the word forgiveness doesn't even exist for you because it happens automatically because there's no-- forgiveness necessarily requires resentment, doesn't it, in duality? So even if one uses the word forgiveness, we're already talking in the paradigm of resentment.

[00:47:21] But if you're very present and very awake, that word doesn't exist. It's like humans, we don't use the word fly because we don't have wings, because wings don't exist. So it's the same thing. There has to be one for other. The more we do this work, there are magnificent shifts that happen like that. Yeah.

[00:47:40] Kate: Absolutely. What you're saying is so simple but not easy, and you say it in such a brilliant way, and I know you may have to listen to this episode several times to really take it in and absorb it. That's why I record my sessions with my coach, because I'll be on my walk and I'll go back and listen and I'll get a different insight.

[00:47:59] This is something I want to listen to again and again and again. And I hope you write many books so we can listen to them on audio. And I see such a huge future for you because I do truly believe that the universe favors the bold and the courageous and the people taking risks. I'm getting so emotional talking about you. I don't know what it is.

[00:48:22] I think because I don't have children, so people like you who inspire me so deeply are like my children, my adult children, we're all the same age here. I had you when I was very young. I just feel your success because of this courageousness and this boldness, and that you've done the work.

[00:48:40] What does it feel like to go from this childhood, have these early revelations, be a lawyer by trade of all things, a boxer, and then to go on and put yourself out there in such a daring way where you could face a lot of opposition? Sadly, what you're talking about is not just common, the caca of the world of who are you dating and all this celebrity nonsense that we all are bombarded with.

[00:49:09] It's really deep, and it's really meaningful, and not everybody is ready or willing to hear it, but they will. And those of us who are soaking this in like a huge glass of water when we're dehydrated, wow. What does it feel like to even be able to put yourself out there in this way and do this kind of work that is truly, truly changing lives?

[00:49:32] Ehsun: Yeah. Thank you. Great question. Actually, I think this was yesterday. I just broke down and cried many tears of gratitude, and I was looking up at the sky with my hands together because I had just finished a program that I hosted, The Peace Program.

[00:49:55] I had 60 something participants in there. It was the first time launching it, and it was very, very successful. There were people in there just having full on breakdowns and revelations, and crazy magic was happening. And I thought to myself, man, I get to do this for a living? That's just nuts.

[00:50:15] So there's an explosion of gratitude right now and immense love for all of humanity because I understand everybody's wounding. I understand why people are blowing each other up and thinking they're right and arguing and bickering. And I also feel the suffering. So it can be a lot of gratitude. It can be a lot of pain as well.

[00:50:35] I've learned recently to put the pain aside, because initially, when you have this gift, you want to save everyone, and you look at yourself as the savior, but that's not what I am. I'm just one person with a gift. So there's tests as well. I get triggered a lot, and also I had a fear of being seen.

[00:50:55] So just coming on podcasts or talking on camera, because one of my thing in my childhood was just not being allowed to have an opinion and not really being ready to speak up and say things and know who is my true self. So me stepping this deep and saying things that nobody else is saying is the total opposite of that.

[00:51:13] So I really believe that for all of us to express our gifts fully, we constantly have to rub up against our childhood wounds and heal them and become a more full expression. But that expression I really feel becomes more peaceful and in service to the whole if it's coming from a heeled place. Because I see a lot of expression in the world right now coming from, I'm the best. I must prove myself.

[00:51:39] It's like girls on Instagram. It's like the more ass you show, the more Instagram followers you get it. It's basically a load of prostitution happening right now. Just put a bottle next to your ass cheeks and you get 10,000 whatever per post and a load of basically vulgar things like that, which just keep us in that lower faculty of survival mode, trying to be better than everyone else. So it's very difficult for me to have that many downloads and try to express it and articulate it in ways that people understand.

[00:52:14] Kate: Yeah, it's incredible. I want to get to how people can work with you in the Peace Program and other programs that you have coming up. One more question though, you're really speaking to something that-- I've been on camera for a long time, but it was always representing another company or somebody else.

[00:52:30] It's different when you're representing not just yourself, your raw self. I'm not showing up and talking about cupcakes and the weather, which, I love both of those things, but talking about these topics and really putting myself in my business out there as are you, and you have these unique proprietary thoughts and ideas. You truly are a thought leader.

[00:52:53] And it can be scary, especially when you-- thank you for even admitting it. I think all of us to some degree have a fear of being seen, especially in a seemingly very harsh world and climate and environment right now. What is your advice to people who maybe have some of these downloads or even people who do? They've got a flower business, but they're scared to put out videos to get more business. I would love your insights on how we can all step more fully into our birthright to be fully seen and fully expressed publicly.

[00:53:25] Ehsun: Yeah. I would say honestly, please, whatever your heart is screaming for you to do, absolutely follow it, no matter the cost, even if your mother stops talking to you, even if it means standing away from that relationship that you had for two years or whatever it is. If you know it's coming from a, what I call God consciousness, a godly place, something that will absolutely serve the whole of humanity, it's robbery not to do it. It's has to be done.

[00:53:54] And I understand that takes a lot of drive. It's actually a very masculine thing to do to push past that fear. So my opinion actually is that for women, the biggest gift they can do is spread their loving energy. It doesn't necessarily have to be some unique knowledge or writing books.

[00:54:12] It's just being loving and kind to people because that comes through a lot easier for most women, what men, including myself, can struggle to do. Sometimes it's just little things. You're walking out in the subway. Someone knocks into my shoulder or something. I'm with my previous girlfriend, and I turn around and I'm like, what? Is this guy got a problem?

[00:54:29] And then straight away, the girl next to me is like, no, no. It was just an accident. Didn't you see? He wasn't looking. So that difference in perception, male ego, female nurturing, that is the savior of humanity right there. Just that. So it doesn't require massive things. It's just being kind on a day-to-day basis for one.

[00:54:46] But to your answer with the big downloads, yeah, be brave. Stick the camera on. Don't look out for the hurt people who are triggered and want to clash with you. Just block it out. Don't read through the comments, because I get a lot of them too. Trust in that voice on the inside. Trust that if I express this, I can never regret it because I'm following my heart.

[00:55:11] Kate: Hmm. So beautiful. I'm going to just listen to this episode on my walks. Thank you so much. I'd love to have you back. I have 8,000 more questions for you, but I'd like you to just leave us with how people can work with you and get more involved. And even, I'd love to work with you too. I'd love the exercise that we did here. But tell us about the Peace Program or any other offerings that you have coming up.

[00:55:32] Ehsun: Absolutely. So I have the PEACE Program. The next round is October, so I believe when this episode comes out, about a month later. And the Peace Program is basically six weeks, six classes. They happen on Sundays, and they cover all areas of life-- we could say, from money to romantic relationships to family relationships. How to handle your deepest triggers around these areas and just bring more peace and understanding into each area.

[00:56:02] You won't be fixed or healed in one program. It doesn't work like that. But you'll let go of enormous amounts of accumulated memory and pain session by session. So that's one offering. But people can visit my website, www.ehsun-- I've almost forgot it. ehsun.co.uk. Yeah. ehsun.co.uk.

[00:56:24] Kate: They'll be in the show notes, don't worry.

[00:56:26] Ehsun: They can visit there. And I actually realized we were scheduled for an hour, but if you want, I'm happy to go for another [Inaudible] 15 minutes [Inaudible] enjoying it. Unless you want to wrap up here.

[00:56:36] Kate: No, I don't.

[00:56:37] Ehsun: It's entirely up to you.

[00:56:38] Kate: I always try to be mindful of the hour.

[00:56:41] Ehsun: I realize that. Yeah. I appreciate that. But I'm totally happy to go a little longer.

[00:56:46] Kate: Okay, great.

[00:56:46] Ehsun: If you want. We don't have to.

[00:56:47] Kate: I would love that. Because there's so many things and then you give an answer, and we could go more deeper and layer in--

[00:56:53] Ehsun: Let's do it. I'm happy. Yeah.

[00:56:55] Kate: Into that.  I feel like I say this a lot. I haven't been to Alcoholics Anonymous, but I have studied the principles, and something that stuck out for me that I'll never forget is the principle that says, anything that you put before your sobriety, you will lose.

[00:57:12] And that is how I feel about my health and wellbeing and my healing journey. And some days I think enough, I'm over this. I want to just go have fun and f around, or I'm like, I've got all this work to do, or I'll do a healing session and I am wrecked the next day because so much healing is done from a cellular level.

[00:57:31] So I think people, and if you're still listening, they're very inspired and they want to learn and they want to grow. I think a lot of people experience a little fear or resistance, and a lot of people I know are coming to mind, and they're great people, but I almost hear them like, oh, that's cute for you, Kate, that you do your coaching and your sound baths and your meditation and all this stuff that I'm committed to.

[00:57:53] You can almost hear like, who has time for that? Or people, sadly a lot of people don't want to look at their stuff-- even people who hire me to look at their stuff. You get a few sessions in, I don't know if you've experienced this, and I get bummed, and then I have to do the work to not be triggered.

[00:58:12] You feel the resistance from them and that they don't want to go there because if they go there they have to look at their perceived flaws, their inadequacies, where they got it wrong, and then do something about it, which you and I know is so empowering because then you can do something about it and change.

[00:58:28] So for people who even right now they're interested, they're feeling very inspired by what you're saying, but then they hit end and then they go about their day and they don't really take action on anything that you're saying, how can we get people to even just take those baby steps and not from a place of you should or you have to, but just I invite you? Because sometimes I want to shake people. It's like, do you know what's on the other side of this?

[00:58:54] Ehsun: Yeah, yeah. Brilliant question. I look at this myself in terms of how to make my voice louder online. What I found was this first direct answer, is speak in their language, not yours.

[00:59:11] Kate: Ooh.

[00:59:12] Ehsun: Yeah. That's the first one. So if we deliver something in the speak that they speak-- look how I speak here. It's very different to my Instagram reels. It's not explosive and aggressive. I'm that way on Instagram because there's one minute to catch people's short attention span. And sometimes I am actually bringing in a real emotion about something I just learned. So sometimes there is a real level of anger. I want to shake people as well. Yeah.

[00:59:41] And that's the language they speak so that it hits them, it penetrates them. So a very good example is Andrew Tate. He became the most famous man on planet Earth very recently, the most Googled man, I think it was. And the way he speaks, there's so much of that anger and narcissistic type personality.

[01:00:00] It's so very clearly it's there, but it's still reaching so many people. So it has a noble purpose in that way, much of it. So who we want to reach, we have to speak in their language if we can do that. And it feels a little bit weird at first. Like, am I being fake? No, you're not. If it's coming consciously.

[01:00:18] So speak out in a way that addresses the crowd that you want. Sorry, I just got a little blank there. Your question, did you actually ask about how we as speakers can reach, and also get people to do the work? That was it. Yeah. I'm going back to it now. Those people--

[01:00:35] Kate: I gave you a lot, and you're going [Inaudible].

[01:00:36] Ehsun: No, it's okay.

[01:00:37] Kate: I'm absorbed in every word. So even if you answer something totally different, I'm just like, that's what means to come out. And I'm with you. We're all with you. We got you.

[01:00:45] Ehsun: Thank you. So if we then want to use that to get people to heal, for example, I talk a lot about men. A man with a mother wound will not be able to provide emotional safety for his woman. I know that hits men right in their stomach. That's what they tell me. They feel like they've been punched in the gut. Because a man wants to feel like he's good. He's good enough. He's the provider. He's the protector.

[01:01:10] So if I come out and say, you're not actually emotionally protecting your woman, he feels the truth in it. And he says, I got to take this challenge. If I speak the same way with that same kind of provoking, challenging style about women who typically don't respond to challenge, they respond more to something a bit more softer, I'll have to change the approach.

[01:01:32] So more men are coming into my programs now. For the people who are just saying, you're passing them on the street, or friends, that, yeah. Okay. You've got time for a sound bath. Or if we're looking at more everyday stuff like that, again, what language do they speak? Because what is bugging them, it's like, okay, what can I pick on that really irks them right now? And what do they do? Okay, they're stressed about how their partner's not loving them off or an ex from however long. Oh, by the way, did you know this helps with like relationship healing?

[01:02:03] Did you know that you can find out stuff about your mom that you didn't realize you could and you can repair that wound? So just enticing people in a fun way, I would say, because what you said at the end of your question was very key, not coming from shaming or criticizing, because if we come from a nurturing invitation way, like there's still love in there, you're not going to get it perfect. Sometimes you will be charged. Sometimes I'm charged. But if people can sense your heart, that you actually want them to evolve, they usually do it.

[01:02:34] Kate: Mm. Love that. Thank you. So many questions, but I'm going to just keep it-- I always hear to my mentor from grad school when I was getting my degree in executive coaching, and you see people on the news, which I've done too, asking double questions, which I just did to you.

[01:02:50] Because I ask a question and then more stuff comes in, and I can hear him saying, ask one question at a time. So I'll just keep it short. How do we stop judging ourselves and worrying about how others perceive us, whether it's putting ourselves out there online or even a private conversation that's uncomfortable offline?

[01:03:11] Ehsun: That's a very good one. I look at this one a lot, and I came up with two parts for myself. I'll start with just the mind in itself. Our brain is an accumulation of millions of years of evolution, so it has its own archaic way of being. It naturally wants to look for problems in the outside world because it's a problem solver.

[01:03:39] That's what it is. It looks for problems. And so without so within. It's also looking for problems with yourself. It's what it does. Don't try to fix or remove that. Just know that that is the nature of your mind. And so on one level, my most viral videos came from when I was not in my head at all.

[01:04:03] I'm literally sat on the table meditating. My eyes are closed. I've done some breath work. I'm just blissed out. I'm totally at peace. I'm smiling. I'm feeling whole, and I ask myself, what does the world need right now? Okay. Boom. Instant flash. And I just say it and it comes off with ease because it's not coming from here like, oh, I need to fix. I need to problem solve.

[01:04:25] It's more like a gifting, nurturing thing. So if you can learn to live more in presence and not in the mind, you'll be less attached to this as a problem seeker. But if you're identified more in your head, you're very heady, you'll forever wrestle with it, and you'll lose that fight. You'll lose for sure, because you have just one lifetime to fix the mind. But the mind has millions of years of backup here, so you'll always lose. So it's a bad idea.

[01:04:54] So that's one level, just being more present. The second level is healing more and more trauma because a lot of our fear of how we're perceived is literally just our childhood. That's huge. It's like we were so worried about what mom and dad thought about us that we're excessively scared of speaking our truth, excessively, as though we're going to die.

[01:05:15] And I've found with people that your fear of being truthful or speaking your truth or going against the grain is usually directly proportionate to how harsh your parents' criticism and expectation expectations were. It's usually proportionate. There's literally a relationship there.

[01:05:35] My will to please my parents was huge. And the more I heal that, I was just like, oh, I'm happy to go on camera now and just say whatever and not give a damn what people say. You could literally see it happening day by day.

[01:05:50] Kate: Wow. That right there is reason enough to dive into the healing journey and keep it going. That is true freedom right there. That leads into my next question is what is a truth that you have shared that has dramatically shifted and changed your life for the better that was maybe scary to share?

[01:06:11] Ehsun: Oh, as in just sharing something for the public?

[01:06:14] Kate: Yeah. Or even maybe something you shared privately that you never told anybody you were scared. I imagine maybe someone sharing that they're gay for the first time. There's so many examples. I'm just so curious, a big truth. You've shared so much here, but I'm just curious anything that came to mind or that you're willing to share now?

[01:06:34] Ehsun: Good question. Just going to look into that one. I don't have an answer for that one. I have a similar thing, because as far as private stuff and whatever, because I always meditated on myself, I did the healing individually that people would've normally got by just sharing it with others anyway. So when I did share stuff, I was already in a stable place, so it never altered my life, if you will.

[01:07:09] Yeah, because that was your question. But what I could tell you is a truth that I got from meditation was the truth of the father wound, which we called the narcissistic men, why are they emotionally disconnected? I tell you, Kate, when I take people through the healing of the father wound sessions, they cry swimming pool's worth of tears because they now even feel bad for criticizing their dad for being emotionally disconnected because they understand him so freaking well.

[01:07:45] The very guy that they were mad at, seething at, only one hour before, now they're like, I forgive you. It's done. That hugely life altering. And it was for me as well, my father wound one, that no longer being mad at someone for being mad at you, no longer being mad at someone for lashing out or abusing you. That's life altering. That's nuts.

[01:08:13] And I just feel like once you can be free of that wound, the level of resentment in you is just so low that you're just not triggered much out in the outside world. Someone cuts across you in traffic or a client pulls out or they'd say something rude or someone screwed once throw over business wise, you're just so understanding now. You're not a doormat. That's not what I'm saying. You have boundaries. You can firmly tell people that you didn't like their disrespectful behavior, but bombs aren't going off inside anymore.

[01:08:47] And the same thing happens to all my clients. They all tell me one by one, "Ehsun, I actually think something's wrong with me now. What did you do to me? I'm not triggered by my mom anymore." So that's the big life changing one. Yeah. For me, father wound.

[01:09:01] Kate: Wow. That is true freedom. Will we know when we're at that place? It sounds like working with you and that it can happen in one session. Will we know when we're ready to forgive our father, for instance, or our mother, and finally release that? Because I think it's like losing a loved one. They say that pain never goes away. It gets less and then sometimes it can be re-triggering, but it's life altering.

[01:09:27] So same with the father and mother wound. Is it like losing a loved one where it never fully goes away, but then you learn to live with it? I'm having a hard time truly articulating what I'm asking because this is coming up for me.

[01:09:41] Ehsun: No, I feel exactly what you're saying. Essentially, what you're saying is-- because you're looking for a finish line, yes?

[01:09:48] Kate: Yeah. And it's like, do I just forgive--

[01:09:51] Ehsun: Let me answer in your metric. Yeah.

[01:09:52] Kate: Yeah. Or does something have to happen? Because some people are like, okay, yes, that sounds great. I want to do that, but I'm not ready to forgive him today. I'm still really mad. Yeah. Sorry.

[01:10:06] Ehsun: No, I'm laughing because I think that's exactly that thing. I always giggle at this with my clients as well. I'm like, but here's the question. Are you ready to let that identity die? You remember we said that mental story you have. Our mental story becomes what we call me.

[01:10:21] You know the thoughts of, this happened 10 years ago, and then he should have done this and he didn't do this, and now I'm this way because he didn't do this? So it's very long, but essentially it's just thoughts. It's just you putting memories on a pedestal. So if all that burns away, that's the first thing.

[01:10:38] Truly, when that's done, that is healing, when you're no longer driven by the emotions and thoughts of the past. That in itself is healing. And so at that point, forgiveness, it's not a word, as I said before. It doesn't exist for you. But that process of being willing to let go of your grievances and the stuff you're holding so tightly, that is essentially the forgiveness process.

[01:11:02] It's very difficult because it feels like you're dying and you're letting go of essentially your right to be mad, and you are right to feel violated, and the right to judge. And we feel like it's our right. But if you go really deep on that, Kate, this shocks a lot of people when I tell them, the ultimate purpose of our resentment and our grievances and our stories of the past is actually to strengthen our sense of superiority.

[01:11:37] Yeah. Did you feel that? So when you see that and you feel it clearly, even more awakening comes in and you see, let's go even more deeper. So how does that strengthen our sense of superiority? Well, victims deep down feel just as superior as like the alpha macho, but just on the other end of the spectrum.

[01:12:03] If you have a victim consciousness, mom did this to me, dad did this to me, my ex-partner did this to me, cheated and betrayed me, yes, it hurt for sure. I'm not taking that away. Horrific abuse occurs for sure. I'm never taking that away. Damage can occur to mind and body for sure. Yes, it's all true. But then wanting to keep that as an identity serves this purpose.

[01:12:26] If I go on through my life saying, I'm like this because of them, I'm stronger now because of them. What didn't kill me makes me stronger. Holding onto these thoughts, the deep purpose is, I am better than them. I am right. They're wrong. It's forever tied to the past. So no real presence ever comes in. And the more wrong they are, the more right I am. So it's actually always serving that ego identity, that superior sense of self.

[01:12:56] Kate: I'm just taking all of this in. I just heard instant classic or number one single. It's just one hit after another. It's like the album full of hits here. It's just one dinger after another. I love it. Zinger, dinger, zinger, whatever we're saying.

[01:13:14] Ehsun: That's a good one to finish up on then.

[01:13:16] Kate: Yeah, yeah. Any final thought? I'll give you the final thought here, or tuning in. There's so much. I'm proud of myself for taking it all in and still even being here to have a conversation and not being putty on the floor. There's just like, woo. Any final thoughts, truth, anything your heart, your body, your mind wants to leave us with today? There's so much that I feel like I need to go lie down after this, in a good way. I feel so lit up and free. Thank you.

[01:13:53] Ehsun: Well, what I'm feeling called to share is a lot of love for you, Kate. I think that you have such a beautiful energy, such a beautiful spirit. I can sense that little girl in you, a very innocent, innocent, very sweet, nurturing, and incredibly caring girl. All of your words and questions are coming from that place, to serve the collective of humanity, which is just how a little girl wants to serve her family.

[01:14:21] I can sense that in you. And that's the most special gift that women have. And it's been a pleasure to feel it radiating out of you. That's what made this so fun. And thanks for the opportunity.

[01:14:35] Kate: Thank you so much. This was one of my favorite conversations of my life, which is such a testament to you and the work that you have done on yourself and that you're now sharing and doing thank you with the world. And really, I want to remind anybody who's in a dark place or who's in the happiest place, how one person, one conversation, can change your life.

[01:14:54] That's why I'm doing this show. And because of you, I just feel so much less alone in the world. And I'm excited to share your gifts with everybody and shout your name from the roof. I'm so honored to know you and to have this time together. We'll have to do it again. Thank you so, so much. We'll have to do it again.

[01:15:15] And thank you so much for listening and watching, and please go to the show notes and reach out for how you can work with Ehsun. And it's just such a gift to know you, my friend. I'm going to call you my friend now because that's how you feel.

[01:15:26] Ehsun: That works. It works, it works, Kate. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you.

[01:15:30] Kate: Thank you for being here with us today. I appreciate you taking the time to connect with me, my unforgettable guests, and of course yourself. I invite you to click Subscribe and join our community so you can hear more conversations that will help you transcend what's limiting you and experience new levels of success.

[01:15:52] Please let me know what insights made you think or feel deeper and what wisdom you will share with your friends and family. Your support means a lot. Thank you for being on this journey with me. You make it extra special, and please know we're just getting started. Thanks for subscribing and leaving a kind review. I love you. Make it a great day.