Healing Trauma: The Secret To Unbreakable Strength with Jane McCampbell Stuart

[00:00:01] Jane: Trauma is powerless. It's the experience of abject powerless, in face of something that is threatening to our life or to our physical integrity where there's absolutely nothing we could do, which is why it's equally traumatic to witness it happening to somebody else because that powerlessness is there too.

[00:00:16] Kate: Hey there. Welcome back to another great episode of Rawish. I'm really excited today to bring you someone, I'll call her my professor, my coach, my educator, my teacher in the midst of getting my continuing ed credits to keep all of my coaching certifications and licenses.

[00:00:31] I met the most extraordinary woman who in just one day of her class, I said, I got to have this woman on my show because maybe it's the nerd in me, but I was sitting here at home in my pajamas taking her course on a Sunday, and I was so riveted and so lit up, and I just want to share her and her knowledge with all of you, and I thought today was the perfect day to bring you this conversation, because regardless of your beliefs, how you're doing, what you're thinking or feeling, we all need some healing, and some trauma healing in particular, because the world is a little nutty, and we're human.

[00:01:05] So let's bring in Jane McCampbell Stuart, who is just a wealth of knowledge. She's a psychotherapist, a coach, a trauma healing, extraordinaire, among many other things. Jane, welcome to Rawish. Thanks for being here.

[00:01:18] Jane: Thank you so much, Kate. It's just such a pleasure to be with you.

[00:01:21] Kate: It's such a pleasure because besides being a wealth of knowledge, I find that you just share your wisdom in such a dynamic relatable way. And I was like, "Why is this resonating so much?" And then I realized part of it is you're British, and so you give it to us straight, and that really helps us all just get to the point and get to the healing quicker. So how did you even become such an expert in trauma healing?

[00:01:48] Jane: Yeah, it's a long story for all of us. I think any of us who go into any kind of healing work do it really out of a quest to understand our experience, our family, what we grew up with, and what we're bringing to life. And it's actually a second career for me. I started out in business, and I volunteered on a suicide hotline when I was back in the UK.

[00:02:12] And then when I moved to the US, I wanted to do something similar, but the whole healthcare situation is so litigious in the US that you can't touch anything without a master's degree. And so I went back to school with the idea and with a business plan, basically of how I would fix families that looked exactly like mine.

[00:02:33] And then I got halfway through my first year and started doing a lot of my own therapy and suddenly realized working with families like mine was the last thing I wanted to do. And as part of my own therapy, I did some work with EMDR, which stands for eye movement desensitization reprocessing, which is a really, really powerful modality for healing trauma. And it was so life changing for me that I came out the other side of that and said, "This is why I'm here. This is what I want to do."

[00:03:12] And so as soon as I graduated, I got trained in EMDR. I went to every advanced training I could possibly find. I built a therapy practice around healing trauma and PTSD and drunk in every piece of knowledge that I possibly could. Have probably worked with a couple of thousand clients over that time. And now my mission really is to share with other people how to go about healing trauma in the world, because it is so healable, and we just don't know how healable it is.

[00:03:46] Kate: Yeah. And you say that powerlessness is at the root of trauma. Can you say more about that?

[00:03:58] Jane: Yeah. So basically, trauma is powerless. It's the experience of abject powerless in the face of something that is threatening to our life or to our physical integrity, where there's absolutely nothing we could do, which is why it's equally traumatic to witness it happening to somebody else because that powerlessness is there too.

[00:04:20] And so when we're a little kiddo or when we're a little baby, we're even more powerless than where we are as an adult, which is why some of those childhood experiences end up having such a lasting impact. And then as we go out into the world, when we've been through something like that, we don't want to have to think about it.

[00:04:40] We don't want to have to deal with it. We just want to tuck it away and get back to life as quickly as we possibly can, and sometimes we manage to do that, and we can go along quite well like that for a little while until something else comes along that looks like, sounds like, smells like, feels like whatever happened before, at which point the brain says, "Oh crap." This is not an isolated event. This has happened before, and now it's just happened again, which means it could happen at any time moving forward in the future.

[00:05:12] And that is usually the point at which trauma symptoms such as hypervigilance, being unable to sleep, getting nightmares or getting flashbacks, getting high anxiety, where all of those symptoms start setting in. And then when we want to heal it, not only do we have to heal whatever caused them to come up, but we also want to go back and heal whatever happened in the past that these symptoms are now putting on.

[00:05:36] Kate: Yeah, it really is getting to the root. It's not just that someone cut you off in traffic, and you're enraged, and your rage should maybe be a one or two, but it's at a 10, and it's not about the jerk being a jerk in the moment. It is something that happened much earlier in life.

[00:05:50] Jane: It's all the jerks who've disrespected you and hurt you and put you in danger for the whole of your life.

[00:05:58] Kate: Yeah. That really hit and landed. It's something that I've overcome, but have understood recently. And so much goes back to something that happened in childhood that we didn't even realize was trauma, that we didn't even realize impacted us the way it did. And then how that affected so many of our decisions as adults.

[00:06:17] And so it just gets layered and layered and layered. And something I recognize in myself and others is the desire to numb, to suppress, to do everything, but sit with it and be in the body. And I know that you do a lot of work around embodiment and getting in the body. Yeah, there's so much to unpack here, but what role does our body play in not only experiencing an absorbing trauma, but really it could be debilitating?

[00:06:47] Jane: Yeah, totally debilitating. So trauma and traumatic experience gets stored in the central nervous system. And what happens very often when we're in a really traumatic experience, when we're powerless, we can't do anything about it. So we go out. We dissociate. We go out there. In European languages, they have the saying "standing beside my shoes."

[00:07:09] So in some way, we leave the body behind to take care of it all by itself while we don't have to be conscious with it in the moment, because that's the only way that we can maintain any sense of integrity in ourselves. And then the trouble is that we can often then stay out. We stay disconnected from the body because we don't want to get back in because we don't want to be feeling any of those emotions or body sensations or anything that was really uncomfortable at the time.

[00:07:38] So we spend all this time floating around outside of the body where we're actually really vulnerable because we're feeling everything that is out there, whatever it is, whether it's election trauma, whether it's the new cycle, whatever it is. We can't actually separate what is ours from what is out there in the environment. And we get really quickly overwhelmed.

[00:08:01] And in order to be able to work with that and to be able to work with any trauma, we actually need to be able to bring ourselves back into the body and get in touch with what it was that we experienced even just for a split second, in order to then be able to help the brain and the body to release it.

[00:08:20] Kate: Yeah. And I'd like to talk about election or political social trauma for a moment because I'm noticing in myself through being so healed, especially these past four years, how differently I show up in political conversations or when I stumble upon certain opinions. Four years ago, six, eight years ago, I would be in a state of rage over some things or not even want to talk to or listen to someone with a certain opinion.

[00:08:45] And now I find I hear certain things and I think, wow, that's an outrageous opinion or thought, and it's just nowhere even based in reality but that I'm not triggered at all or way less triggered. I'm a one on a scale of one to 10 as opposed to a 100. And so I think some people, again, I can just feel a lot of stuff bubbling up.

[00:09:10] Yes. It could be about a political candidate. Yes, it could be about belief systems or values being compromised. But what is going on right now not just in the United States with this election, but globally with just the outrage against certain political figures?

[00:09:29] Jane: Yeah. There's just so much outrage and so much anger, and it is so disowned, and anytime it's disowned it is really, really scary. And when it's disowned, it's because we've gone out of here, and we're not actually in our body, and we're not holding on to the essence of who we are and recognizing, "Okay, I am a whole differentiated person that I happen to be in this world.

[00:09:56] And we're not noticing that separation or that piece of responsibility that we have to be able to hold our own stuff and also to be in relationship with the rest of humanity. And when we're not in that position, a lot of fear and rage really explodes. And then for anybody who's ever been on the receiving end of any fear and rage, so going back to that childhood, if we grew up with caregivers who did that a lot, if we grew up in chaotic or abusive homes, we see some of these political candidates and some of their rhetoric, and it's just taking us right back to what it was like when we were 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 years old, and we didn't have the power and the voice and the choice.

[00:10:38] We couldn't go and vote. We didn't have credit cards and car keys, and we just had to sit in it. And sometimes we get really reminded of that feeling and then act as though we were still at that age and stage.

[00:10:53] Kate: I would love for you to talk to-- because I'm like, gosh, I'm feeling intuitively now. We could go on and on and unpack trauma and what it is and what it looks like. But it's one thing that I know for sure. Everyone has experienced some form of trauma. There's very large, significant trauma like assault and things like that.

[00:11:09] And then there's just little traumatic events that we experience here and there just by being human. For everyone watching or listening right now, who is feeling triggered or traumatized by whatever-- whatever just came to mind, that's it-- what healing can you offer? And I'm happy to be the test dummy here to work on, but what healing can we offer everybody in this moment as it relates to our trauma.

[00:11:35] Jane: So one of the first things that I suggest is that we need to be able to call ourselves back to our essence of self in our current time and place. And so one of the ways I suggest people do that is to make a butterfly, and you do that by putting your hands out in front of you palms facing you, and then you cross them over so that the thumbs are together, join the thumbs, and then bring the hands back to your chest, and then you're going to just tap alternately with each hand on the chest. This is called a butterfly hug.

[00:12:07] It comes out of EMDR that I mentioned earlier. And it's just the first stage and just helping to regulate your nervous system. And then what we need to do is to try and separate our essence of self from whatever crazy is out there in the environment that our poor body is trying to metabolize.

[00:12:27] And so I suggest we do that just by saying our name, just by saying our name, and then by adding the age so that we bring ourselves back to who we are in this current space and time. So it would be, I am Jane McCampbell Stuart. I am 53 years old, and I'm really freaking out right now. I am Jane McCampbell Stuart. I am 53 years old, and this is a big cluster that I don't know what to do with. I am Jane McCampbell Stuart. I am 53 years old, and I'm really scared about the future.

[00:13:22] So we go on, calling ourselves back to the essence of who we are, reminding ourselves that we're now grown up with those credit card and car keys. We're not a powerless 5, 6, 7-year-old anymore. And we name all of those things that are running around our head because as soon as we name them, we feel less powerless.

[00:13:47] It's like we can define them. We can own them. And we might not actually change any of them, but we've just been able to bring ourselves back to ourselves just really briefly. And then when we've named everything, we want to name-- there's a little bit of magic that I suggest we do.

[00:14:05] Kate: Yes.

[00:14:06] Jane: So once our heart is settled, we want to bring up something that causes us to feel a little bit of love and appreciation.

[00:14:15] Kate: Hmm.

[00:14:16] Jane: So that can be if we do have a loved one in our lives, whether it's a grandmother, or whether it's a spouse, even whether it's our dog, our cat, or a pet bunny, just whatever allows us to feel a moment of appreciation. And as soon as we get in touch with that, what happens is that the electromagnetic resonance of our heart rate is going to move into a beautiful wavy pattern.

[00:14:42] And this wavy pattern is what we call heart rate variability. And when we're in coherence with our heart rate variability and when we're in that wavy pattern, it's going to soothe ourselves, but it's also going to soothe everybody else in the environment around us. So I just then have us imagine that beautiful bubble of our heart resonance that's actually going out about five to six feet around the body, and we carry on.

[00:15:13] And so after we've named all our stuff, we return to the name. "I'm Jane McCampbell Stuart. I'm 53 years old, and I'm imagining my heart resonance going out in this beautiful big golden bubble. And as I sit with this beautiful golden bubble, I imagine sending it to whatever situation needs it right now. And I see the people there receiving it, and see their heart rate settle as it arrives, and allowing everyone in that situation to feel love and appreciation, and the benefit of my regulated nervous system to help regulate theirs." Then we just take a deep breath.

[00:16:17] Kate: Is everybody feeling this? Is everybody feeling the calmness? And hopefully you're not driving, but if you are driving, or if you are experiencing some sort of road rage, for instance, to pull over and to do this. I love that this practice is free, that you can access it at any time.

[00:16:34] You even heard the instructions, but if you're listening and you want to watch on YouTube and watch Jane do this, please watch the video and just record it even, and go to this practice when you need to just calm and soothe and balance your nervous system and take a breath.

[00:16:50] I just feel calm. I can't even think about what I was stressed about a few minutes ago-- maybe the technology. I feel like I'm always stressed out about technology, which I can't control. So I'm letting that go. And it goes with a spiritual practice that I do if I'm really feeling triggered by something or the chaos in the world.

[00:17:10] I look up sometimes and say, "Dear God, I am not enlightened enough to not be super enraged or triggered or upset right now, but I am willing to see this differently. Dear God, I am willing." And it's not even a religious thing. It's just God to me is love. But it's, "Dear God, I am willing to feel peace instead of this." Or "Dear God, I don't have it today. Please take this from me. You figured out. You're a little more powerful than I am."

[00:17:39] Jane: Right. And that piece about just coming back to ourselves and recognizing what is my responsibility and what I can do, if all I can do right now is take charge of my own heart resonance, my own heart rate, my own anxiety, and then bring that down into my body, that's actually going to make a huge difference, not only to me, but to everybody who's in my sphere, because they are going to feel it too.

[00:18:06] So we all know when you walk into a room and there's a fight that's just happened, you can feel the tension in the air. So similarly, when you walk in with a calm nervous system, that will calm other people. People can feel that calmness. And if that is all you do, it is doing something, and then suddenly you are not powerless anymore.

[00:18:28] Kate: I think there's this misconception that power is whoever is shouting the loudest, and a ton of men and politicians just came to mind. Whoever is the tallest, or whoever is taking up enough space--, even if it's in a toxic way-- who has the most money, all these things that I've just seen how powerless many of those people are, which is why they're overcompensating.

[00:18:48] But to show up in a meeting, to show up in your house, to show up at the grocery store, to show up anywhere with a calm regulated nervous system and just be that for other people, most notably yourself. But it is a gift to yourself too because the way people will respond to you is much more rewarding. And then you just get to be such a pleasant force of light in the world.

[00:19:09] So it's I highly recommend that something else that you've helped me with is the importance of taking up space. And we do that through the "I ams" as well and saying my name. And wherever you are right now, if you can stand up to say your name, what you taught me the other day that I loved is, and this is my space.

[00:19:27] Because I was in my home and really shooting out that energy and filling up my space with my energy, not the neighbors, not the LA traffic, not the workers who always drive me nuts, constant construction or something happening where I'm just like, not today, Satan. I need a break. I'm trying to record a podcast. So can you speak a little bit to that too? Because that is really empowering. I want everyone to practice this.

[00:19:54] Jane: I can absolutely do that. So it's a little similar to the practice that we just did. And it comes out of the science of HeartMath. So if you go to heartmath.com, it's a beautiful organization. You might have heard of them. They were the original people who came out with these heart rate variability devices.

[00:20:09] And they've got lots of research about when you think of appreciation, love, kindness and gratitude, how that does impact the electromagnetic resonance of your heart rate, brings it into a beautiful wavy pattern that calms, not only you, but calms everybody else in the environment.

[00:20:26] Conversely, if you have any anger, resentment, or anxiety, instead of a beautiful wavy pattern, you have a herky jerky pattern. And that herky jerky pattern is not only going to completely jack you up, but it's going to jack up everybody else who is around you. And if somebody else's herky jerky pattern comes into your herky jerky pattern, then we have what we colloquially call a mess.

[00:20:50] So what we want to do is to recognize, let's bring our heart resonance into that wavy pattern. And the resonance of our heart rate actually goes out in a big sphere all around us about 5 to 6 feet-- all around. And this is the energy that people feel of us, whether we are mindful of it or not, whether we manage it or not, and whether we take responsibility for it or not.

[00:21:16] So one of the daily practices that I recommend that everybody do is just take a couple of minutes, and I usually suggest doing it standing up, but to take a couple of minutes and just check in with the heart. Bring up whatever will bring us a sense of appreciation or gratitude.

[00:21:32] And all of us can find something, and it doesn't have to be anything really big. It can just be something really small. And then when we're in touch with that, we want to spread it into our space. And we do that using the name that brings us home to ourselves. So that might be your legal name, or particularly if you have an anglicized version of your name, it might actually be your original name. So whatever name brings you home to yourself, you spread it into your space. So we start with gratitude, we feel the heart resonance go wavy, and then we just help it go out. So I am--

[00:22:10] Kate: I am.

[00:22:12] Jane: First name, middle name, last name. I am first name, middle name, last name. I am first name, middle name, last name. And this is my space. And just take a moment to visualize that beautiful sphere of your heart space. And as you visualize it, it might have a color. Mine actually changes color every day, which I find really cool.

[00:22:48] And you just look at it and notice that is your space. That is your energy, goes into that space. That's what other people feel of you. And then you come back, get in touch with that gratitude again, and here we go again.

[00:23:00] I am first name, middle name, last name. I am first name, middle name, last name. I am first name, middle name, last name. And I take up my space. And just see all that is the essence of you traveling out and filling up this bubble so that other people can feel you.

[00:23:29] They don't actually have to do extra work to try and find you because you're there. And you just see yourself going to the edge of your bubble. And sometimes I say, just imagine you're inside of a beach ball, and reach over and just poke the edge, make sure it's fully inflated, and that all of your essence is coming out. And if we need to just send a bit more essence to inflate it a bit more, we can do that.

[00:23:51] And then we come back again, find the gratitude. I am, first name, middle name, last name. I am, first name, middle name, last name. I am, first name, middle name, last name. And anything that is not mine needs to leave my space. You are not welcome. Permission is denied. Any prior permissions, given or assumed, or any other reasons why you're in here are now revoked, and you need to leave my space and go back to your own.

[00:24:40] And then you just imagine anything that's not yours just twiddling to the edge, going to the edge of your apology bubble, going plink, once it gets there. And then we come back for one final round. I am first name, middle name, last name. I am first name, middle name, last name. I am first name, middle name, last name. And I am sovereign in my space.

[00:25:25] Kate: How did that feel? I really hope everybody did this, or if you're not in a place to do it, please go back and listen to this. This is such a beautiful daily practice. Thank you for that, Jane. I have the chills. I can feel my being vibrating. The act of saying, this is my space and standing in our power-- and it is like a vocal warmup. People just speak from the throat, and that is not power.

[00:25:51] We need to speak from, as my coach says, our lower belly. What does he call it? I can't think of right now. It's a funny word. Doing the vocal warmups. And when you do that and what you just did to me, and I didn't want to do all my name and out loud, but then when you speak and then instead of went from the throat, you say, "Hi. I'm Kate."

[00:26:11] When you speak from that place, "Hi. I'm Kate Eckman," and you feel, and when you're delivering a speech from this place, or you tell somebody, actually, that's not okay with me, they believe you, and you're not being a jerk, difficult or bitchy, which people like to tell assertive women. We are that a lot.

[00:26:29] But even just owning your power, owning your space around your physical body, whether you're at home or in public, but also how powerful to request these other energies to leave, if it's people who've been in and around your body or your home, and just sending back. Or even days I feel anxious and I think, "Why am I so anxious?"

[00:26:48] I'm, like, "This isn't mine. It's my realtor's anxiety, and she was just here." So it's pushing that away, giving it back. Can you speak just a little bit more to that about giving people their energy back? The person on the news, the people arguing down the street, the conversation you overheard, the kid-- whatever it is. How can we give people back their stuff?

[00:27:10] Jane: The easiest way is, like I said, when we are feeling that level of anxiety, resentment, or any anger, our heart resonance is herky jerky. And when it's herky jerky, other people's herky jerky could come in, and it gets messed up. So honestly, the easiest way to give it back is to get back to that wavy pattern, and then it just naturally carries it out on the wave.

[00:27:34] Kate: I feel that I'm having a physical sensation. I'd love to hear from anybody who's doing this exercise, what you're experiencing and if it's uncomfortable or difficult. Again, Jane, I like to come from a space of not, you should do this or you have to do this, but I encourage you. I invite you. How can this change everybody's mind, body, spirit, finances, love life? It sounds insane, but it's not. This really will change your life.

[00:28:04] Jane: It really does. And I've got so many examples of it. So sometimes, particularly as women, the idea of actually standing up and taking up space and saying our name, that's a lot of work just to get to do that in itself. But I worked with one woman who was almost literally invisible.

[00:28:22] So she'd walk along the street, and people were bang into her, or she would be coming through a door and the door would slam in the face because nobody had seen her and hadn't held it open for her, or she'd be at a conference and then she'd put up a hand to ask a question, and she'd constantly be overlooked.

[00:28:38] And she did this practice. She started doing this for a couple of weeks, and all of a sudden people were complimenting her on her clothing. They were calling on her in conferences. The door was being held open to her. Strangers were coming up and talking to her. And it was like she actually became less invisible as a result of this. And then I had another client who was in quite a high power position. He started doing it, and he was promoted twice within a couple of weeks of doing this, just because of the energy of how he made people feel around him by taking care of that energy in his space.

[00:29:19] And there's that old saying that people won't remember what you said, but they will remember how you made them feel. And this is one of the ways you can really take responsibility for how you make people feel, their experience of you when they're in your presence.

[00:29:37] Kate: While I have you here, and thank you for humoring me, answering all my questions-- thank you. My free therapy session and coaching, and for everybody too. And again, please write in because you'll have questions for Jane, and I definitely want to have Jane back. So that said, when we are now doing these practices, doing all the work, and we are standing in our power, we do have a presence that people are noticing. And other people with a strong presence may compliment us, love it, or acknowledge it.

[00:30:05] And then we may get some folks who don't like that we are standing in our power. They hate that we have owned our greatness, which is our birthright, and it can be a little uncomfortable. We can grieve the loss of a friendship or relationship with a family member or some colleagues because we're so out of alignment now.

[00:30:28] Anything that you can share with that? Because maybe for some people, there is that fear of fully stepping into that because that means these people may not like me anymore. I may lose this relationship. What can you say to that?

[00:30:39] Jane: I think one of the best pieces of advice that was ever given to me by my all-time favorite mentor, she said, it's okay for relationships to just be for a season. And so sometimes we have this idea of the BFF, we have to stay in this place, and it's not really realistic, and it doesn't really allow any of us to grow and move in our new directions.

[00:31:02] And I think it's okay to look at relationships and be able to acknowledge them and value them for what they taught me in this season. And a bit Marie Kondo-esque, now I can thank them and then let them go, just like we do with our stuff.

[00:31:20] Kate: That was just-- thank you-- succinct and simple. And I think we overthink and overcomplicate things, maybe because it does elicit a strong emotional response. If we really cared for or love that person, but we can still care for and love that person from a distance. And I think it's a disservice to ourself or even a traumatic experience to do to ourselves if we keep people around who are unwilling or unable to value us or respect us.

[00:31:49] Jane: Yeah. I even say to clients sometimes, actually one of the gifts even from a really highly narcissistic relationship, is that when you're in that kind of relationship, they have the ability to see your deepest thoughts need and your deepest desire. And that's how they hook you into relationship, because they see it, they name it, and they promise that they're going to meet it.

[00:32:12] And then we're devastated because we want to believe that promise, and it doesn't happen. But the gift of that when we finally get out is, oh, they saw a need in me that I hadn't even acknowledged was there. Thank you, narcissistic x, for seeing that need in me and identifying it for me so that I can now meet it myself.

[00:32:34] Kate: Ooh, I just had aha moment or a little whatever we're going to call it. I don't have a label for it right now, but I'm tuning into it. I remember saying to my narcissistic ex who was in love with me, but his love made me feel a bit unloved at times or often. And I remember saying to him, and I felt the seven-year-old little girl in me, why can't you just love me? That's all I wanted. I didn't need the money. I didn't need this. I don't need you to do just-- why can't you just love me? If I'm upset, why can't you just love me?

[00:33:08] And he's like, "What are you talking about?" He didn't understand. "What are you talking about? I do love you." And what I got from that is it was really me saying to myself, "Why can't you just love me?" And that little girl, meaning, let's get out of here. Let's break this off and get the F out of here.

[00:33:28] And so that has been a thing, and that has been my journey these past few years in particular, and having the best relationship with myself I've ever had by far, being the best version of myself, not just paying lip service to that. And it's not because I'm drinking green juice and doing Pilates, which is nice. And being that fiercely protective protector of my own heart.

[00:33:49] And when you're doing that, a lot less people are going to be in your life, especially for a period of time. But then it's only people who love you are in your life-- are properly loving you. And I'm just hearing all these things now because I even hear another guest say like, throw out what it means to be properly loved, but knowing for ourself what it means to be properly loved and giving ourselves that. So we don't really need it from anybody else. It's just the cherry on top. Do you feel that too?

[00:34:17] Jane: Yeah, so any love needs to start with loving ourselves. And sadly, we often don't figure that out until we go through a really painful divorce or a big painful breakup. And then we start the dating process, and then we have a disaster. And so anytime anyone comes to me at that stage of life, I am working on loving themselves, loving all the parts of them, and making sure all of their little parts, whatever age and stage they're stuck at, feel completely loved and accepted by the adult self now.

[00:34:49] And then we can bring all of us into that new relationship. And then when we love ourselves, that love for ourselves is just part of the information that we broadcast without even thinking about it. And then it's only going to attract people who are actually in that same state of loving themselves and willing to be able to have that relationship with us.

[00:35:12] Kate: As you're talking, this is just my brain being my brain. So many little things come to me, and something you said, just in an episode on trafficking, which is a very serious topic, and it's going on everywhere, and I was joking, but not joking, I said the traffickers aren't going to approach me because I'm broadcasting confidence. I love myself. Don't you dare F with me.

[00:35:36] That vibration where like, "This woman, she's way too much work. We're going to leave her alone." I'm probably way too old for the traffickers. They'd probably just want to groom me into being a Ghislaine Maxwell or something. But it's so important to do this work too, for what you said, our frequency, our vibration.

[00:35:52] You're right. Without saying a word, we're sending a message. And that's what they talk about. A lot of these victims and survivors, they're young. They come from broken homes, so they're broadcasting with their energy, "I have no self-esteem. I can be taken advantage of." And it's not their fault by any-- I'm not suggesting that at all. I'm just suggesting people are picking up on what we're broadcasting, whether we're aware of what we're broadcasting or they're aware. And it's powerful, but scary.

[00:36:22] Jane: Yeah, it is. And if we actually take responsibility for what we're broadcasting and we really work with a therapist or a coach to be able to bring it up and to be able to really manage it, it works as this beautiful shorthand. We don't even have to say a word. It's like our energy just goes and communicates it. And anybody who's coming in to mess with us is just going to say, "Yeah, not bothering with that. I'm going to go find somebody easier to prey on."

[00:36:44] Kate: She's way too much work. I'm like, "Correct. Keep walking." What one man said to me once is, "You're high maintenance." And I said, "Thank you so much. I do really care for myself in a deep way. Thanks for noticing."

[00:37:04] Jane: I love that. And so unexpected. What a great response to what was really a put down that could have been a little bit whiplashy, that you just came straight back at him. That's just beautiful.

[00:37:15] Kate: I know I love it. So something else that you specialize in that I would love for you to share with us is tapping, EFT tapping, which is emotional freedom technique. I love this practice too. And I should do it every day. I don't like to shoot myself, but I would like to do this every day, and I don't. But can you maybe share what this is and maybe take us through a little session of it?

[00:37:39] Jane: Yeah, absolutely. So tapping is basically acupuncture without the needles. And so we tap on different acupressure points. So it's based in the Chinese system of meridians, where can have different emotions get stuck and emotional energy gets stuck in those places.

[00:38:01] So the way that tapping works is in the same way that EMDR works. So you get in touch with all of the aspects of an experience. You actually make sure you're feeling that even momentarily in the body, and then you need to add some stimulation. So with EMDR, what you're adding is usually an eye movement or butterfly taps. With the tapping, you're adding these tapping on the different meridian points.

[00:38:23] So I just find it much more accessible since we've all been working online and on Zoom, and it's just very easy for somebody to be able to take away. So there's two different schools of tapping. There was the original, which is thought field therapy, which is a little bit more complex. And then there's the much better known, emotional freedom technique.

[00:38:40] And I mix and match both for my work. And so I use it to open sessions. I use it to close sessions. And then one of the best ways that I use it, if you have an image in your mind that you really would just rather not have there, whether it came from social media or from a nightmare, or if there's just something that just happened that you just think, ugh, and you would like to erase it, we can absolutely do that, if you want to try that with me right now.

[00:39:09] Kate: Yes, let's do that. So am I bringing forward something that's irritating?

[00:39:14] Jane: Yeah, or if you just saw an image or a picture or there's just something that just makes you feel, ugh, that you just don't need and you wish wasn't there, we can get rid of that.

[00:39:25] Kate: Yeah. And I spoke to you this over email too. And I think because I live a street away from where P Diddy's Los Angeles-based home was raided, I walk by and drive by it every day and constantly see P Diddy videos on my social media, and more comes out, and I was one of the people, a wannabe prosecutor, and so last year I read every word of the Cassie lawsuit, and it was so traumatizing.

[00:39:56] And so it stayed. And then that just one video of him abusing her, again, a Los Angeles-based hotel came out. It's weird. On one hand you want to look away, and I don't know what it says about my brain, but I watched it, and I watched it a few times, I think just trying to process that that actually happened. I fortunately have not been physically abused by a partner, but it brings up other assault or abuse that many of us have experienced.

[00:40:26] And so that gets brought up. Or I even posted a video of his home being raided when I was walking by, and it's like, "What are all these helicopters?" And did a 20-second video on TikTok, got 1.6 million views in a few days, and there was a lot of comments, and I could tell so many women were being re traumatized. And they want justice for the ex that mysteriously died, and they want justice for this. And I could feel energetically women who have been sexually assaulted.

[00:40:52] I could tell by what they were saying and how they were speaking, and I thought, we're being bombarded with just that story in itself. And there is some justice here that he is in jail right now, so I think some people are feeling some relief there. And then we have to go with our justice system. This is something that happens too.

[00:41:15] Sometimes when I'm talking about deep traumatic events like this, sometimes I'll be like, "What was I just saying?" And I'm like, "Gosh, I'm a professional presenter. I can't even talk right now." Hijack. Thank you for this. I want to just offer people this too. There's nothing wrong with us.

[00:41:30] And so even right now, I feel myself all over the place. So that's something I'll bring up. It's those images of that news event and I hate even seeing his face, and then the whole-- and not just him, but the Jeffrey Epstein, Harvey Weinstein, the Abercrombie & Fitch CEO who just got arrested for sex trafficking. And then I go to, why does it take 30, 40 years to bring these people down? How many lives have been destroyed? Anyway, so I'm going to stop, but let's bring this up because clearly, I'm like, "Oh, no, I'm fine." I'm like, "Clearly, I need some healing here."

[00:42:08] Jane: So when we hear a story that somehow explains a story that's happened to us, that's why we're drawn to it. And then what we want to do is get mastery over it. So we have this idea that if I keep exposing myself to it, then I'm going to feel more in control and less hijacked by it. Now, that is actually not true. That's a fallacy.

[00:42:24] And so it's okay to protect our brain. We don't have to go in and get every single detail. So let's bring up the image that is most haunting to you when you think about P Diddy, and just tell me when you have it.

[00:42:41] Kate: Okay.

[00:42:43] Jane: How distressing is that on a zero to 10 for you right now?

[00:42:47] Kate: A 10.

[00:42:48] Jane: It's a 10. And where are you feeling that 10 in the body?

[00:42:50] Kate: In my chest and stomach, but mostly in my chest. Oof.

[00:42:55] Jane: Okay, so I just want you to notice it, and we're just going to tap here on the heel of your hand. And then just holding on to that image just for a moment. I won't make you keep it for very long, I promise. You're going to come up to your eyebrow, and you want to be almost on the bridge of your nose.

[00:43:12] And then you're going to come under the eye to the cheekbone. Okay. And then, poof, you can let the image go. Gone. And then come under the arm. All right. And then you're going to find the collarbone, which is a little bit of a tricky point to find.

[00:43:30] So you start with the V in the collarbone, move your fingers all the way underneath the bone until you get to a little notch that you look about right there. And if you hit it with four fingers, hopefully we'll get the right point with one of them. Okay. And then you're going to come to your little finger. There you go. That's your anger point in your little finger.

[00:43:52] Kate: Really? I've never done this point before on my pinky, and this is my anger point. I remember getting energy healing, and they were pushing on my liver, saying that's where we start. And they're like--

[00:44:04] Jane: So this is though field therapy. This is a trauma algorithm from thought field therapy that we're doing here. Come back to the collarbone. The collarbone point is a great one. So even if you don't remember any of the others, this is a great one to do. And then you come up outside of the eye, and you want the corner of the eye socket just below the temple.

[00:44:24] This is your rage point, and rage is basically powerless anger. And then we'll come back to that collarbone point. All right. And then we're going to come to your index finger. There you go. And slide along so you're hitting it on the end there. There you go. And this is your guilt point.

[00:44:47] Kate: Wow. I love learning new things. I've never learned these, ever.

[00:44:51] Jane: And then back to your collarbone. And then you're going to come up to your chin. You want the indentation between the bone and the lower lip. This is your shame point. And you're going to take a deep breath in you're tapping it and then puff it out like a horse.

[00:45:08] Kate: I love to. Sorry, my nose is dripping. I usually do that sound for my niece and nephew. I play when they would sit on my knees, and I would do my, horse one.

[00:45:19] Jane: You did a beautiful neigh like a horse. And then you make a fist with your left hand. We're going to tap just behind the knuckles of the ring and little finger. And while you're tapping, close your eyes, open them again, and look down to the right and down to the left. And do a circle around the room. And go back the other way. And count out loud to five.

[00:45:47] Kate: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5.

[00:45:51] Jane: And hum a few bars of a made-up tune. [humming]. And then count to five again.

[00:46:02] Kate: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5.

[00:46:06] Jane: And I just want to point you're laughing. You see how your energy shifted, and that's really important. And so we'll just bring up the image that we started with again, and just take a look at it now and see how it looks. Let me know when you have it.

[00:46:21] Kate: Mm-hmm.

[00:46:21] Jane: And then back up to your eyebrow, and then under the eye to the cheekbone, and under the arm, to the collarbone, little finger, back to the collarbone, up outside of the eye, back to the collarbone, to the index finger, back to the collarbone, and to the chin. Take a deep breath, and puff it out.

[00:47:20] Kate: It's also a vocal warmup. Sorry. And I know I look and sound ridiculous. I'm a good horse and vocal warmupper and terrible singer.

[00:47:37] Jane: Beautiful.

[00:47:38] Kate: It really works because I'm so happy, and I'm laughing.

[00:47:42] Jane: Well, let's just check it. So let's go back to the image that you had, and just tell me what's changed.

[00:47:50] Kate: The way I can best describe it, it's like going from a horror film to a comedy or cartoon. And the victim is now the hero who has taken back all her power, and then the other person is like dust and burned down. And it's like that heroine victorious moment, and not to cause harm to the other person. And it's like the cartoon. And so I'm thinking of Mickey Mouse and Bugs Bunny instead of Freddy Krueger.

[00:48:21] Jane: Right. Wow. And how is it in the body? What are you noticing in the body now?

[00:48:25] Kate: I feel light. I feel a little cold, which I'm learning that's a huge energy release. And I feel so light in my body.

[00:48:35] Jane: Wow.

[00:48:36] Kate: And just very like, "I'm good. I'm great. What was I so upset about?" And have taken my power back. I own it instead of nobody is, and my thoughts matter and how I feel, and that other stuff just went away. Oof

[00:48:53] Jane: Wow. So we went from a 10 down to a really not feeling--

[00:48:58] Kate: Zero. Yeah.

[00:49:00] Jane: Wow. And one of the reasons why I always take a score beforehand is because people say exactly what you did. I can't imagine that this was such a big deal. And so sometimes when I'll say, "So how's that 10 now?" They're, "What? Did I really rate it at the 10?"

[00:49:14] And because sometimes people say, "Hey, I did tapping, and it didn't work for me. " What makes it work is you have to bring it up first. You have to get in touch with the distress, even if it's just for a little moment when you start. And then when you add the tapping, then it will start dispersing in the brain. But if you don't bring it up first, then the brain has nothing to disperse.

[00:49:38] Kate: That is so powerful. And don't even just take my word for it. Please try it. And if you're listening to this, please go and take a moment to watch this over on YouTube at Kate Eckman TV. What is happening when this happens in my voice? I feel like when I talk about a released trauma, this happens with my voice. What's happening there?

[00:49:59] Jane: It's probably a piece of your power. When we're powerless, we don't have a voice. We don't have a choice. We don't get to be able to assert ourselves. We don't get to know that we can impact our world and our environment. And so a lot of stuff does get locked up in that throat chakra. So you might just be releasing some of that there.

[00:50:17] Kate: Oh, thank you for that. Again, we could do 10 hours long here. I don't want to go backwards and bring up other people's trauma, but I know, again, a lot of people are dealing with a trauma from the body, whether it's a physical or sexual assault, not feeling comfortable in their own skin or body. The issue around abortion, which is highly provocative, triggering, and divisive among other things.

[00:50:44] So for people who did this exercise, now you'll practice like, "Okay, I didn't practice." Now let's practice. Let's bring up something. But anything else that you do? I know you have all these body with some techniques, but I can't emphasize enough the importance of using our body and clearing it for trauma, healing. Anything else you want to say there? I know we've done so many exercises.

[00:51:06] Jane: Yeah. So usually, that tapping one that I do. So sometimes that one will stand by itself. So if we've just seen something, say, an image in social media or something that's distressing that we don't need to keep, the tapping will bring it down. And sometimes that's all you need.

[00:51:21] The other way I use it though is with trauma that's a lot deeper or that's been a lot more sustained, so like you said, the sexual assault or any kind of abortion or birth trauma-- and believe me, whether you're giving birth, whether you're choosing to give up for adoption, whether you're adopting, whether you are the baby who was given up for adoption, all of those things can be so traumatic and so charged for women.

[00:51:45] So I work with all of those. So that tapping technique we just did, I will usually use to help work with the worst part of any memory or of any experience. Because often we don't want to go and deal with any big trauma or any big grief because we've got this horrible thing there that we don't want to look at.

[00:52:06] So I start first with the tapping to basically make that horrible thing just a little less distressing to look at. And then I have other tools to go in and address the story. And one of the key things with trauma is that, because the brain basically shut down or we went offline at the worst part, the brain doesn't know that this is over. It thinks that it's still going on, and it has no idea how you got from that bad thing to where you are now.

[00:52:38] And it fears that if we go back to that bad thing, we're going to be stuck there. So one of the most important things I want to do is to give the story an end. So I want to say, "How did you get home? How did you know when he stopped? How did you know where your clothes were? What happened for you to be able to get out of this experience?"

[00:52:58] Because you're not still there now. You're here with me now. So what happened? And then when we can put the end on that experience, the brain then knows, oh, this is in the past, and I can now treat it as though it's in the past, rather than it feeling as though it's still happening to me right now.

[00:53:17] Kate: That is so powerful and something again that we can do. So someone who's listening right now and they went through a traumatic event, what is something that they can say maybe out loud to themselves? I highly recommend they work with someone like you, and we'll have all your information in the show notes. I can't recommend you enough, but what can they say in the present moment, even just by themselves without a professional to give an end to that story, to signal and tell their brain, this is over? You are safe now.

[00:53:45] Jane: Yeah. Or even just what we started with, so going back to the, this is my name, this is how old I am, and I am safe now. Or if I'm not safe now, then I can pause right now. I would, however, really strongly advise, with any of that kind of trauma, you need somebody else's nervous system to regulate you. It's really, really hard to do it by yourself. Even for me, as a professional, and I have all of the tools, I still call my colleague and just say, "Hey, this just came up. Could you clean this up for me?"

[00:54:25] So even if it's a friend that you have, do it with somebody else, borrow somebody else's nervous system to just help regulate yours, because you don't want to just go down a hole, lose your nervous system, and then not be able to get back.

[00:54:42] Kate: Thank you for that. That's so powerful. And again, to give your story a beginning, a middle and an end. And I love combining what you do with what I do, even hosting this show. It's about storytelling. We have a beginning, a middle, and an end. You're right. There is a signal even to say the show's over. Goodbye. See you next time.

[00:55:00] And so even with that story or traumatic story, it's over. Goodbye. And see you never. But we talk about the importance of not going at alone and that you aren't alone and to team up. And sometimes-- and I've never used that language with it, but where you do-- hold space for somebody else, whether it's a coach, a therapist, your spouse, your best friend, and you do feel so much better after talking or even just someone saying, "That sounds really difficult."

[00:55:31] And the importance of that's the training I want to do for all of humanity. Some people have it. We're professionals, and we talk about this and do this for our clients. But I thought of someone in my life who I would be so upset by an event, and they wouldn't even acknowledge my pain or even say, "I'm so sorry you're going through that", or, "That sounds really traumatic." They would just sit there in silence and judge me essentially, and that that felt almost more painful and harmful than the traumatic event itself.

[00:56:02] Jane: Yeah. It is absolutely re traumatizing, yeah, when you try and seek that help and need to be witnessed, seen, heard, and known, which all of us need. That's a basic primal need. But especially, when we're coming with the vulnerability of a trauma, to have that just dismissed, belittled, or shut down is absolutely devastating, and you're right, would need to be processed as a trauma as well as the original traumatic event itself. And that's why I'm--

[00:56:30] Kate: Can we role play for a moment? Sorry. And I'll just pretend that we're best friends. You're not a professional coach or therapist, and we're living together, and I come home. Just what to say to someone, because that's what people say. "Well, I don't know what to say," or, "I don't want to say the wrong thing," or, "I'm not a therapist." We're best friends. We're roommates. I come home, and I'm just like, "I'm so stressed out. I just lost my job."

[00:56:57] Jane: Yeah. So all we have to say is, "Oh, honey, I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. That really sucks. And you've been working so hard at that job. How dare they? I'm so sorry."

[00:57:08] Kate: Thank you. Why is that so hard for people to give others what you just gave me?

[00:57:16] Jane: Yeah. It is really hard, isn't it? So there is the worry about hurting somebody or making it worse. And the thing is, they're already distressed. You're not going to make it any worse. You're only going to make it worse if you don't actually respond to them at all. And I think sometimes it's just too close to our own pain or our own experience all the time that we were fired. And because we haven't processed that, and we don't want to go and look at that, we cannot therefore be with your process and you having just been fired.

[00:57:50] Kate: Thank you for saying that. There's so many little role plays I'd like to do, and you'll have to come back because, for me, it seems like basic human empathy and interaction, and I see so many damaged relationships, hurt relationships, or estranged relationships because of lack of simple human care.

[00:58:12] Jane: And if that's never been modeled for us, so if we didn't get that from mom and dad when we were growing up, we don't know to do it to a roommate in college. We're just going to do what's been modeled to us.

[00:58:28] Kate: I just think I don't want people to ever feel how I have felt in certain situations, so I have gone above and beyond to educate myself and to do this work because I know the pain of not being seen. It's devastating.

[00:58:43] Jane: Yeah, yeah. And all you need to do with anybody who comes in in a place of distress is just see it and hear it, and then let them feel known. And it can just be, "Oh, honey. I'm so sorry. Oh, that must've been so rough. Oh, I can't imagine." That's all it needs to be.

[00:59:03] Kate: When you look back on your incredible journey in this trauma healing space, what stands out as such a reward for taking this on?

[00:59:16] Jane: It's such a privilege. I'll just tell a story. So with a veteran I worked on, I was really, really pretty new, fairly newly trained in EMDR at this point. And a veteran came in to work with me, which is unusual on a number of things. But anyway, long story, he did arrive in my office, and I worked with him, and then the next morning I got an email from him saying, "I've just slept through the night for the first time in eight years. Thank you."

[00:59:51] Kate: Oh my gosh, Jane.

[00:59:53] Jane: Yeah. So getting those emails, that's something that corporate America was never going to compete with. And that privilege of just being able to do that for somebody and giving them back their night's sleep, that is what I live for. That is what I live for.

[01:00:16] Kate: Thank you so much for sharing that and for the work that you're doing. And I hope that this serves as a beautiful reminder to everyone right now that a simple act of kindness, or listening to someone, or taking the time to get a certain amount of knowledge to be able to literally change someone's life, and sometimes all it takes is one conversation, one letter, one text, one email, one phone call-- I even think my childhood friend, Alison, who I hadn't heard from in years, reached out to me after seeing an episode of this show and wrote me the most beautiful note that just made all of the time, energy, financial investment, the tears just worth it from one email. And to share this with people.

[01:01:00] I know everyone's overworked and overscheduled and over traumatized, but to take this moment to acknowledge one another and to, like with you, reach out. And you're so phenomenal. I'm so happy to be taking this course with you and learning from you. And please come on my show because I want everyone to know your name, know your work, and learn from you.

[01:01:21] Because a healed world is how we transform it. And we get to live in that. People complain about a lot of things, but it's like, "Well, what are you doing to make it less shitty where you are?" I'll leave it to you for one last piece of wisdom or advice or just anything that you want to share. This has been such a beautiful conversation. Thank you.

[01:01:47] Jane: Thank you. Thank you so much for having me on. Just being willing to get this message out. I want everybody to know trauma is so healable. And you don't have to suffer in silence. You don't have to be struggling with nightmares. You don't have to be struggling with not being able to get through the night. You deserve to go and get that healing, and it really is healable with the right person and with the right toolbox. That healing's available. So please seek it out, seek out relationship, and let people regulate your heart space.

[01:02:21] Kate: Yeah. Thank you so much for that, Jane. It's been such a pleasure and delight. And thanks to all of you for being here as well, watching and listening to the end, and doing these exercises. Your healing is going to heal the world. So let's keep doing this together. You can always reach out to me for questions, comments, advice, a giggle, a cry, anything you need. I'm here. So we'll see you next time. Thank you so much for being here. Bye, everybody.