Clinton Kelly Says: Wear Whatever the F You Want & Feel Good Doing It

[00:00:00] Clinton: It's so easy to judge. It takes no courage at all to judge somebody else, no courage. You just have to have a mouth or a keyboard, and anybody can do it. So you're not special if you're judging. You're just one of the masses.

[00:00:29] Kate: Hey, there. Welcome back to another great episode of Rawish with Kate Eckman. It is such a special episode for me today because one of my all-time favorite people is here with us to share his brilliance, his humor, his wisdom. I'm not even going to give too much of an introduction because he really doesn't need one. But you may recognize him from TLC's What Not to Wear back in the day, and more recently from ABC's The Chew.

[00:00:52] He's written so many bestselling books. He is a fashion icon in his own right. And I know him from his stint at Macy's where he would just travel all around the country giving the most expert advice on how to look good in our clothes, how to feel good in our clothes. And I was working as one of his models and just fell in love with him as a person. And so I'm just going to bring him out now. Clinton Kelly, hello.

[00:01:16] Clinton: Kate. Hello, my dear. It's so wonderful to see you as always. You're one of my favorites.

[00:01:23] Kate: This is so fun. Thank you. And I didn't mention, but I'll let you share, you have this incredible new project. The title alone is just worth tuning in for, even if you know nothing about it. But please share your good news with us that is coming out. We'll see when we air this. I want to air it around the launch. But tell us this big news that you have for us.

[00:01:43] Clinton: Well, the show is called Wear Whatever The F You Want, and I am hosting it with my old pal and co-host, Stacy London. We have reunited, and it feels so good, and it's going to be on Amazon. We don't have a release date just yet, but it's all been shot and edited, so it's ready to go whenever they say they want to release it.

[00:02:02] And it's basically the anti What Not to Wear, where we told people, you shouldn't be wearing this, and you should be wearing this. This new show is about, tell us in your wildest fantasy, what you'd really like to look like. Let's take that out for a test drive and then maybe adjust based on the reality of your life.

[00:02:20] Kate: I love that so much. I think we all leaned into that a little bit too much of wearing whatever the f we want during COVID, which is when this idea was born. So when I think of that, the first thing that comes to mind is pajamas everywhere. But that's not what we're talking about.

[00:02:34] Clinton: No, it's about having a true style that reflects who you are as a human being on the inside. And maybe on the inside you are somebody who would rather be asleep. So in that case, if you want to wear pajama, great. Then this will make for wonderful television, so we'll just leave you do that. But it's more like people who always wanted to be punk but didn't have the courage to do it.

[00:02:55] Or somebody who was goth/emo who wanted to be preppy to meet a different type of guy-- that kind of stuff. It's been a blast. It's a really fun show. It's really nothing like What Not to Wear because we're more like coaches. We're like, "Hey, you can do this. You've got this."

[00:03:12] We're not tearing anybody down. We're not making any criticisms. Of course, we're going to have opinions, and we share our opinions about things, but it's certainly not a criticism. It was a great experience to shoot. I hope they order 20 more episodes, 20 more seasons of episodes, I should say.

[00:03:25] Kate: It needs to be on forever. I think not just the style and the fashion, but really embracing our uniqueness and our authenticity. Throwing other people's opinions about us and how people perceive us out the window. And that's something that I've had to do recently, even to create and launch this show.

[00:03:42] Because there's a lot of chatty Cathys in the peanut gallery, and they're usually the ones who aren't daring, bold enough, or courageous enough to create their own thing, to put it out publicly, to be in the media like you and I have both been and are. What do you say to people who are in the corner judgy or it's like, "Oh yeah, I'd love to wear this, but what will the neighbors say, or what will my parents think, or what will the kids at school say? Or what will the people on the internet say?

[00:04:09] Clinton: Right. Well, they're the people who are judging. And to those people, I would say, it's so easy to judge. It takes no courage at all to judge somebody else, no courage. You just have to have a mouth or a keyboard, and anybody can do it. So you're not special if you're judging. You're just one of the masses.

[00:04:28] But to somebody who says, I don't have the courage to wear what I really want to be wearing because I'm afraid of what other people will think, I say, "Look, I understand that." You're talking to somebody who was terrified for decades about what other people thought of me. I grew up as a gay kid in middle class Long Island.

[00:04:47] It was just not the thing to be out in the mid to late '80s, even the early '90s. It was a scary time. And so I was constantly worrying about what other people thought of me. And then at some point it just clicked, like, who cares.

[00:05:01] I don't care what anybody thinks of me anymore-- I really just don't care. Because I know who I am, and it's so easy to be judgy. So I would say to somebody, "Look, you can take baby steps and just try something new, try a little baby step toward wearing what you want to wear, or go whole hog and just try it and see what happens."

[00:05:19] In most cases, what's the worst thing that's going to happen? Somebody might make a comment about you when you're walking down the street. So I guess you have to ask yourself, do you care? Why do you care so much if a stranger doesn't like what you're doing? We're living in a society, Kate, where you open your mouth, and 50% of the people are going to hate you.

[00:05:40] Kate: Wow. That's crazy.

[00:05:41] Clinton: It's just the way we're living right now.  If you have an opinion, 50% of people in American society will probably disagree with you just because. So you're not going to make everybody happy. So why bother even trying?

[00:05:53] Kate: Yeah, I love that perspective. It helps us own it a little more. Even the title, Wear Whatever The F You Want, it's kind of say whatever the f you want too. There are some repercussions based on what you say. And as my mentor would say, the truth said without kindness is violent, so let's be mindful of that too.

[00:06:10] But what we wear is such an expression of who we are. Even today, I went from, I'm like, "Ooh, let's do a little Ken and Barbie interview." And even just putting on this bright pink and pop of color, I got into the groove, got out of the pajamas that, like you said, make me want to sleep or lie down. I'd rather be sleeping.

[00:06:27] And so just giving you that vibrancy and that energy, it really does play a role. I think for me personally, it's not even caring what others think so much. I just know that when I wear certain things or my hair is styled a certain way, or I look a certain way, I get a lot of positive validation.

[00:06:43] And if I'm just slumping around, nobody really says anything, and that's fine too. So I think in my mind it's not even what people think or say as much as it feels good to be validated. Or it's like, "Ooh, they think I look nice," or I'm pretty. And so it makes you feel better about yourself, but then that's also an inside job to feel good about yourself regardless of the validation you aren't receiving.

[00:07:04] Clinton: Right. I've been telling friends of mine lately and a couple of clients that I have, I've been saying, "Stop dressing for compliments."

[00:07:10] Kate: Ooh.

[00:07:11] Clinton: Stop it. Sometimes I'll get together with certain friends and they'll be like, "Oh, you look great." And I'm like, "Oh, you don't have to tell me I look great. I know I look good. I dressed for me today. I didn't dress to impress you, so you don't have to tell me." And therefore I don't have to tell you. I don't want to have to tell you that you look good, quite frankly, because you should know that you look good. Why do you need to hear it from me?

[00:07:32] It's one thing if you're friends. You'd be like, "Oh, you're wearing a new jacket. Oh, I love your new jacket." But you have to ask yourself why you're doing it. Why do you need that from other people? And sure, we're human beings. We want to be seen as attracting. We want to feel attractive. It's wired into our DNA to want to feel attractive to others. But we're also sentient creatures who can ask ourselves why we care about the opinions of strangers so much.

[00:08:00] Kate: Yeah, it's something, so it's good. I hope everyone's reflecting now and then keep listening back to hear what Clinton's saying and really take it to heart because I think we all pay lip service to this. Oh, just love yourself, or love your body, the weight you gain, the weight you lose, what you're wearing, what you're not wearing. But I think we've both learned it is an inside job. I think part of it too comes with age. It's a good thing about aging.

[00:08:22] Clinton: Yes.

[00:08:23] Kate: One good thing. But some good things about aging. What are some common questions or concerns that you get from your clients? You've been all over the country and even world people asking your advice, getting your opinion. What are some concerns? Because you know it is much deeper than just the pop of color we're wearing, how our jeans fit, how the bra fits. It's an emotional thing. And sometimes it's deeply insecure feelings that we're dealing with.

[00:08:51] Clinton: Yeah. The most common issues I get from my clients are questions about age-appropriateness and body appropriateness. So the age-appropriate thing, it's the number one question I get asked. Like, "How do I wear this over a certain age?" I feel like everything's made for the kids, yada, yada, yada.

[00:09:11] All right. So yes, trends for the most part are made for the kids. Because they're the ones who are trying to figure themselves out. This is what people don't understand about what I call aggressive capitalism. We are living in an aggressively capitalistic society. Everybody wants to make money off of you.

[00:09:32] And because of that, they're going to try to get you to buy as much stuff as possible. You've heard the term in the demo, right? the 18 to 35-year-old woman is the woman in the demo at least for traditional television advertising. It was all like, women 18 to 35. Are they watching? Are they watching? Why did they care? Because advertisers were trying to sell to those women. Why were they trying to sell to those women? Because those women haven't decided yet which products they like. They weren't sure if they like this brand of toilet paper or that brand of toilet paper, this moisturizer or that moisturizer.

[00:10:06] You get to a certain point and you know what your favorite moisturizer is or what brand of toilet paper you like the most. Yes, trends are sometimes targeted toward younger people because they don't quite know who they are yet, so they're going to try all the different things and buy all the stuff.

[00:10:21] When you get to my age, at 55, you know exactly who you are. I'm just saying. I hope you do. Finally, I figured out who I am. And so I'm not buying trend, trend, trend, trend, trend, trend, trend because I don't have anything to prove to anybody. So I think that that's really an important thing to think about; why do you feel as though you need to be hopping on every trend? Is it because you really want to, or is it because you bought into this capitalistic messaging, which is, you need to try new things to be relevant?

[00:10:47] So that's the age question that I get a lot from people. And to talk them through it, sometimes it takes literal hours of my life to talk through this concept. It's like, you don't have to do anything you don't want to do. You can wear whatever the f you want, and you just have to ask yourself, do you care what the person who's next to you at the restaurant cares about you when you're out to dinner? Do you really? No. As long as you're happy, you're happy.

[00:11:07] The other thing is people have a lot of hangups about their bodies. And if they don't have the "perfect" size four, they feel as though clothes aren't made for them and they don't fit right. I can't tell you, Kate, how many times I have gone into the dressing room with a woman, I said, "Here's a stack of jeans. Just try these jeans on. Try them all on." Tries on one pair of jeans. They don't fit. Try on the second pair of jeans. They're not that flattering. Try that third pair of jeans. Maybe they don't fit either.

[00:11:37] She'll say, "I told you they don't make clothes for my body." And I'm like, "Are you out of your mind right now? You tried on three pairs of jeans. Do not let three pairs of jeans change how you feel about your body. There are jeans in the world that are going to fit you and that are going to look great on you. You just haven't found them yet. So that's my job with you. We're going to find them."

[00:11:58] It's not easy. It's easy if you're a size four who's 5'7. That's sweet spot. When I have a client who's 5,4, [Inaudible], okay, this is going to be a breeze because I'm going to take a size four off the rack. When we're going to put it on, it's going to look good. But any taller than, that's going to be difficult. Any shorter than that, going to be difficult. Any thinner than that can sometimes be difficult. And bigger than that is difficult. So it's difficult for everybody.

[00:12:21] Kate: Yeah, yeah.

[00:12:22] Clinton: Stop thinking it's going to be easy. Your body's perfect the way it is. You might not like it, but it's-- I say to people, stop giving your body so much shit, quite frankly. Your brain is functioning right now. You're not sitting in a foreigner drooling. Your brain is working.

[00:12:39] Your heart is plumping blood. Your liver is filtering out all the damn toxins you put into it. You can walk. You can run. Stop it. It's doing its job. So stop hating on it. And is it perfect because of what the advertising industry has told you a perfect body should look like? No. Mine isn't either. You think I'm going to lose sleep on it over that? No. It is what it is. We're all different, and different is good.

[00:13:05] Kate: Yeah. How do we embrace-- because it is an inside job. All these things, having the good hair, makeup, clothes, money to do all of that feels really good, and it's nice. But again, going back to that inside job with this, and I've seen you up close and personal with especially women who are struggling, listen, the gay men are like, "I'm an honorary gay man. We all have our struggles. We all get a little obsessed with looks, and we're a little vain at times." I say that with love.

[00:13:32] But what is this obsession that we all have? In my mind, it's from the advertisers or how we're raised. It's always, we're never good enough. Working as a model, I was always to something. And you get a complex after a while, which is why I've had to do so much of this deep inner work and reframe what it means to be a woman at any size and come up with a new concept for success, redefine success and redefine what beauty is.

[00:13:56] But this is a struggle, and I know you've even seen women crying. How do you work through those emotions independent of the clothes, but work with women especially to get us to embrace who we are a bit more?

[00:14:10] Clinton: Yeah. It's work. I'm doing therapy with people. I'm a stylist, and I'm doing therapy, where I see the hatred that people have for their own bodies, and it hurts me. It really, really hurts me to hear it. Because I think women being raised in an aggressively capitalist society have been brainwashed from birth that you have to look a certain way to be valuable.

[00:14:36] And it's not just the advertising industry. It's all of culture. It's the people that you saw in magazine covers since magazines were invented. It had a perfect little shape, tiny little waist, perfect skin, and perfect hair. And you're bombarded everywhere you go with these images of perfect women.

[00:14:57] And after a while your brain starts realizing, "Oh, I'm seeing patterns here." I see one pattern after the next, after the next, after the next. If you raise a kid in the jungle, in the woods, or in the desert where they have no access to all of this commercialism that we are confronted with every single day, they're not going to have strong opinions about what is beautiful, what is perfect, and what isn't.

[00:15:17] But if you put them in an American supermarket or sit them in front of American television, after a while, they're going to say, "Oh, the beautiful people are getting the most attention. So I guess it's better to be beautiful." And sure. Do beautiful people get more attention? Absolutely.

[00:15:33] It's hard not to look at a beautiful person. Sometimes when you see somebody who is so exquisitely put together, you're like, "How did those genes combine to make that perfect face, a perfect body?" It's like you won the genetic lottery. It's hard not to look at somebody who won the genetic lottery. But just because you didn't doesn't mean you don't have any value.

[00:15:54] Some of the people who won the genetic lottery lost it in other ways. They can't do a simple math equation, or they have major character flaws. I'm not saying all beautiful people have character flaws. I just want to be clear about this. I've met a lot of beautiful people in my life. They're not perfect. They have some serious issues. And so when you're looking at them, you think that they have everything. Their life is just perfect and gorgeous, and they just won. They didn't win because they might not be happy. They might not be smart. They might not be able to bake the same kind of apple pie that you're able to bake or decorate a room the way you can do it. Life is not just about your looks.

[00:16:33] Kate: Yeah. And I experienced that firsthand as well. I think the most steeply insecure people I've met in my life are supermodels, Victoria's Secret Angels, that it was like the sex set. I was not regular on any sex set, but on the Saks Fifth Avenue and New York City, and there were. I was the resident salon z plus size model because I'm not a size four.

[00:16:59] And then it was all the street size models and the male models. And I think I pissed a lot of them off because they looked at me like, "Wait, I can be big and old," which was me, bigger and older, "and still make the same money and book same job." And I'm like, "Yep." And I think it pissed them off.

[00:17:18] But they also saw, because I was a bit older and just embracing who I was in my size, and again, I'm highly educated, and so I have other things going for me, I think they were just like, "Wow." They would even say, they're like, "You're so confident." It's almost like they were surprised, again, because I'm big and old.

[00:17:34] None of that stuff ultimately matters. And I feel good about myself because of inner characteristics and really embodying those rather than just-- listen, I do feel great when I'm done up and dressed up, but then I can't wait to get home and take it all off and get in my pajamas and have no makeup on.

[00:17:51] So I feel my most beautiful when I'm engaged in a conversation like this when I feel seen by someone I love and care for like yourself, and we can just have a conversation and be real. So I offer that up to people, and that's something that you do so well. And I think you just make people feel so seen and comfortable. I experienced that working as a model.

[00:18:10] But then all the women in the audience who were so obsessed with you, but they were so obsessed with you because you made them feel so good about wherever they were in their journey. It really is a gift. And something I'll say too, I've done so much research in speaking on confidence, and when I think of you, I think of many fun things.

[00:18:30] But one of the things that I think about that it's one of the most confident statements I've ever heard, you had a new book coming out, and you were just casually telling us about it, and at the end you said, "But I don't really care if you buy it or not. I have enough money. Goodbye, everybody." And it was just so real, and you didn't care.

[00:18:48] And not everybody doesn't have to, in that, sense worry about money. But it was the attitude of, if you buy it, great. If you don't, great. It's really, I wrote it for you. It's my heart and soul. Here you go. But if you don't buy it or like it, you were so unbothered. And that was like way before the unbothered trend. So how can we all have a little bit more of that "I don't care" attitude?

[00:19:11] Clinton: Well, I think it goes back to, you're not going to make everybody happy. It's not going to happen. You could try all day and all night. There are people on this earth who hate Mother Teresa. There are people on this earth who hate Lady Diana.

[00:19:27] Kate: Wow.

[00:19:28] Clinton: If they can't make everybody happy, you are certainly not going to make everybody happy. And so you can only do the best that you can do. If you connect with me, fantastic. I don't connect with everybody in the whole world. I don't want to connect with everybody. I look at my Instagram followers, I know people are following me because they are interested in what I have to say, and I'm going to say whatever I want to say.

[00:19:49] And if it resonates with you, fantastic. If what I say does not resonate with you, go find somebody else. What's that Chorus Line? I feel like there's so many noises happening. My espresso machine just turned itself off in case you were wondering what that was.

[00:20:03] Kate: I did hear something when I was talking, but I'm like, we're just going to keep going because that's life. There's distractions, and you keep going.

[00:20:10] Clinton: Yes. There's a line from Chorus Line, which is one of my all-time favorite musicals, if you want something, go find a better class. That's the way I feel life. It's like, if you don't like me, go find somebody else you do like. You're not going to hurt my feelings. I don't like everybody. In fact, I like very few people. So I can't be a hypocrite and want people to like me when I don't like--

[00:20:32] Kate: Oh, I love that. That's a great reminder. You had this series on Instagram that was so genius and so hysterical. It's something about the better bitches grammar.

[00:20:46] Clinton: Basic grammar for basic bitches. I should bring that back. I really should.

[00:20:51] Kate: Basic grammar for basic bitches. And what I love about this, first of all, I'm like, don't mess with the Northwestern University's Medill School of Journalism graduates. Thank you. Which both of us are. We know our grammar. B minus, they'd flunk you out. But it was so epic because people would go to insult you or something you were doing, and instead of saying your with the apostrophe, they'd leave it out. So tell us about that, because humor is such a signer signature strength of yours. And so if all else fails, just laugh it off. This series was epic.

[00:21:27] Clinton: Oh, it really was a fun thing to do. I should shoot more of them. I think one I was doing is giving a little bit more airtime to critics than I like to give, and that's why I stopped it. So people would make comments about me either on my Instagram page or when I was doing the two on their Facebook page or whatever, and I was like, "Really? You're going to say to me that I'm unfunny, or unattractive, or a terrible cook behind your keyboard? You're just at home.

[00:21:59] You could be in your basement or wherever, and you're going to take time out of your day to criticize me? If you're going to criticize me, at least do it with proper grammar so that I can read this and take it to heart. Because I can't take it to heart when there are seven spelling mistakes in a sentence, three grammatic errors, and the content is just pure garbage. So I was like, "I'm just going to let these people have it."

[00:22:22] Kate: But it was, and that--

[00:22:24] Clinton: I don't like to be petty.

[00:22:25] Kate: But that series blew up. Well, it gave us all a laugh because we've all been there, and some of us more than others, based on how much you are daring to put yourself out there. And so, of course. And if you have this fantastic gig on ABC, a hit show, a hit network, and you're--

[00:22:39] Clinton: Emmy.

[00:22:40] Kate: Yeah, Emmy, and you're cooking, you're telling jokes, and you're hanging out with your friends, I can see why people are jealous, but again, my mindset is, wow, thank you for showing me what's possible for me. Or, hey, I would love to come visit you on set one day. Or, oh my gosh, congratulations. I think that's a thing too I've really had to work through where you have something to celebrate.

[00:23:03] You experience a success and you're excited and you get crickets from some "friends" or so-called friends, family members, or people would rather die than tell you good job or congratulate you, and I've never understood that because I see people, whether you're celebrating that you won the spelling bee, that you got an Emmy, that you got married, that you got divorced, or that you planted a flower that's pretty and makes you happy, I don't understand why people aren't willing or able, especially a friend, to celebrate our success.

[00:23:35] Clinton: I'll tell you why. What we hate about other people is what we hate about ourselves. That's all it boils down to. It's like when you do something that is so phenomenal that you had the courage to do something phenomenal, you want to celebrate it. If somebody can't help you celebrate that, it's because they don't have the courage to do the thing that they really wanted to be doing.

[00:23:57] It's like when people used to come at me for being gay. That doesn't really happen anymore. But I'd get-- every once in a while, a guy would get on my Facebook page, nobody on Instagram, quite frankly. A guy would on my Facebook page and make a homophobic slur or something.

[00:24:12] And I was like, "You hate me because I am living my life to its fullest. I'm being the authentic version of me. You wish that you could be the authentic version of you." That's why you hate me so much, because you don't have the courage to be the authentic version of you, which might be gay. I don't know. Might be bi, might be whatever. I don't give a shit.

[00:24:32] But that's really what it is. It's like if people can't be happy for you, it's because they cannot be happy for themselves because they didn't have the courage to do what they've really been wanting to do.

[00:24:40] Kate: Well, it reminds me of my all-time favorite movie, American Beauty, and the character played by Christopher who lived next door to Kevin Spacey, and he would beat up his son, and there's nothing worse than being the F word. And then went, and he was so homophobic because he was closeted gay military man and is going to try to make out with Kevin Spacey, and Kevin's like, "Whoa, dude." And then ends up murdering him.

[00:25:05] And that's what I think now when people are so homophobic like that. I'm just like, "Oh, are you gay? Because otherwise, why do you care? Why does it matter?" And then there's some people who are just frankly ignorant or like, I don't understand why we have to see the pride flag. And it's like, well, you wave your flag every day simply by being heterosexual.

[00:25:23] Clinton: I know.

[00:25:24] Kate: That's a whole other deeper unsettling conversation. But yeah, anytime someone is that unhappy or has that much hatred towards someone, I think, "Wow." It's just their inner hatred projected outward.

[00:25:37] Clinton: Yeah, it's sad. And so if you can tap into that sadness and then tap out again because every time somebody says something nasty about you, it's because they're really sad because they're really unhappy people. And it makes you a little sad to see like, oh, that person's really unhappy.

[00:25:55] And if you're an empath, you can get sucked into that hole of being like, "Oh, isn't it sad that this many people are sad?" It makes me feel sad. I can't spend too much time thinking about that. That's why I just do the old delete and block.

[00:26:09] Kate: Delete block, delete and block. And if you're really feeling elevated and evolved, you can forgive, but at least the delete and block, don't have time, and move on. And you're right. Because I'm so empathetic, I feel everybody's feelings, which is exhausting. So just coming back home to myself, that's been a shift for me too.

[00:26:26] I always wanted to be perceived as a nice girl. That's how I was raised. It was always like, be nice, be nice, be nice. And I found myself being nice to everybody else at the expense of myself. And so now I am kind to myself first. And if that means I disappoint this person, this person doesn't like me, I'm no longer friends with you, I really am okay with it because I actually like myself now.

[00:26:48] Clinton: Yeah, there's a big difference between kindness and being nice. You can be kind, and be fair, honest, and strong. Being "nice," I think it's like, be the nice girl. That means give everybody else what they want or put their needs before you put your own needs. And it's like, "No, I'm just going to be kind.

[00:27:08] Kate: Yeah. And it feels fake and disingenuous.

[00:27:10] Clinton: Yeah, sure.

[00:27:10] Kate: I can tell if people are doing it to me too. And so I don't need to be coddled, and please don't. So I think that's why, for me, the show too, just being more real and us just honoring the messy and the raw and saying things that maybe we normally wanted. I think we're at an age now where we can embrace that.

[00:27:27] And so that's the role model I want to be. You and I here teaching people, some younger folks maybe, how to really speak their truth in a kind way, but just embrace more of who they are. Because we waste decades sometimes.

[00:27:41] Clinton: Decades.

[00:27:42] Kate: Decades, not owning that. So I would say, it's gotten better, and it's gotten better for you and I think the collective as a whole. But we're LA, New York City, people, have worked in fashion. My gay boyfriend, Justin, reminds me often how homophobic the world still is.

[00:27:58] And the suicide rates are still very prevalent and rising, especially among young folks and a lot of them who are closeted or scared to be who they are for whatever reason. I had a friend who died by suicide, who would rather be dead than be openly gay or bi, which was so heartbreaking and devastating. And I didn't understand.

[00:28:19] I know you work with a lot of women, but maybe some younger men who are struggling, scared, or their families there's a lot of religious beliefs where-- my hairstylist was just saying-- I was like, "How's Ricardo from the front desk?" And he was sharing that Ricardo's parents disowned him because he was gay. And I'm just like, "It's 2024."

[00:28:40] Clinton: I know. I think that what I'm about to say might be a little controversial. I think some people will take issue with it, but for me, your safety has to come first. So if you are a minor who relies on your parents to put food on your table for you and a roof over your house, lie to them. If they think that they would disown you-- you know that they're homophobic--  if you think that they might kick you out of the house if you said that you were gay, bi, or trans or whatever it is, lie to them.

[00:29:18] Play the game until you can get out of the house, and then you can create a family of your own. I feel bad for kids who come out at 16 and their parents to disown them. And then they're living on the streets or at sometimes they turn to sex work. And so I guess the alternative to that I would say is just lie. Do what you have to do until you're 18, go off to college, and then be who you really are, and never look back.

[00:29:42] Kate: Yeah.

[00:29:43] Clinton:  Which is unfortunate, but you cannot compete with generations of systemic homophobia-- you can't. It's just ingrained into a lot of religions. And for hundreds of years, maybe even thousands of years, gay people have been at the bottom of society's totem pole. They've been optics of ridicule. And we are in 2024, but if you think about the movies that people watch-- sometimes Damon and I will watch an '80s movie just for fun, and the homophobic slurs in '80s movies, it's shocking.

[00:30:17] That's not that long ago. Every single movie. The butt of a joke was always the gay. Or you'd watch some murder mystery. The gay always got killed. As Damon would say, the gay has to die-- so the gay character would end up dying at some point. And that was even into the '90s. It was like, what the fuck? My advice is surround yourself with people who love you, no matter who you are, and just avoid the people who don't. I know it's hard to do in their family, but it's just the unfortunate truth for a lot of people.

[00:30:49] Kate: Yeah. And then find people like yourself who just tell it how it is, and really embrace it. And I think that's why you've been such a beacon of escape, hope, and joy for all of us because you do those series, like the basic grammar for basic bitches. And you say all these things, but there's safety. You've had this incredible career by being truthful and honest.

[00:31:08] Even What Not to Wear, you were telling people, don't wear that and why. What has been the evolution, do you think, for you, your career, and your personal identity? You've been in the public spotlight for so long, have been successful for so long-- not this one hit wonder. Congrats on that. And so many changing times. There's so many things that you've navigated for so long. How do you think you've been able to do it and do it so well without having a breakdown, or being addicted to something, or losing your mind?

[00:31:42] Clinton: Yeah, that's a good question. I think I always kept it in perspective. I surrounded myself with people who I've known for years and years and years. So my friends aren't friends that I made since working in Hollywood. My friends are friends that I've had since junior high school, since college, since graduate school, and people who knew me before I was ever on TV.

[00:32:07] And that was important to me to remember that these people liked me before I was on a hit television show. And I didn't buy into the bullshit. I just didn't. I was like, this is a cable TV makeover show. I'm not Brad Pitt. And even if I were Brad Pitt, I wouldn't be treating people as poorly as I saw some reality show stars tweeting other people.

[00:32:33] It's like, "We're all people here." It's like, "Let's all try to get through this together." So I just had a good sense of who I was as a person, and I also was lucky enough to meet Damon 19 years ago, and we've been married now for 15 years, and he's just been my rock, and I've been his rock too. It's not like I'm just clinging on to him like a rock after a shipwreck.

[00:33:02] We've just been there for each other. We really prioritized our marriage. We're like, it's you and me to the end. So I will always be your number one cheerleader, your rock, and all of those other things, and he was like that for me.

[00:33:16] And so instead of going out to every party, instead of going out to every bar, instead of going to every red carpet, I didn't go to those things. It's like I'd rather be at home with Damon, roasting a chicken and having a glass of wine. So that's what I did. It's like, sure, fame was a little bit fun, but I also realized very early on that it wasn't for me.

[00:33:37] Kate: Oh. Why?

[00:33:39] Clinton: I don't know. I remember when What Not to Wear got really popular. I would see packs of teenage women, or college-age women, not teenage girls or college aged women, or women in their '20s walking down the streets, and I would cross the street because I would just be accosted by them.

[00:33:59] They'd be like, "Oh my God, it's fun for [Inaudible] take a picture." And I'd be like, "I'm just trying to go buy milk in the grocery store." So I think that I kept it real in that I did all the little things in my life. I would take my own clothes to the dry cleaner, and I'd do my own grocery shopping, and I'd clean my own apartment.

[00:34:16] The truth is in those little things sometimes. The truth is not standing on a red carpet and smiling for an hour, hoping the right picture of you is put in the right magazine. So I think that has a little bit to do with it. I'm just being me. I also said I cannot [Inaudible]. Reality TV for me was a little bit exhausting in that there's so much shooting. What Not to Wear, for example, we shot an hour for every minute that aired.

[00:34:42] Kate: Wow.

[00:34:42] Clinton: So it was days and days of shooting this television show, and I couldn't pretend to be somebody I wasn't for that long. So I was like, I'm just going to be me. And if people like that, great. And if they don't, I'll get canceled, and I'll go back to being a magazine editor. I was like, "I'm a cockroach," Kate. I literally call myself a cockroach because I will figure out a way to make something work.

[00:35:07] I will live in a studio apartment if I have to in a crappy neighborhood. If that's what it takes to survive and be the authentic version of me, I will do that. I don't get caught up in all of the extras and the fluff. It's just fluff to me.

[00:35:22] Kate: Wow. But you're really speaking to longevity, and so much is a credit to your integrity because I know that you saw firsthand some people really, really change once some fame set in. And that was hard to navigate, I'm sure.

[00:35:39] Clinton: Yeah. Think about somebody who is very famous. They can't go out and do the things that normal people do. They just can't pop into the grocery store and buy a dozen eggs, or go to the gym without other people staring at them or taking their picture.

[00:35:56] It's like their lives become very insulated, or insular, and everybody around them is coddling them. And everybody around them is also financially dependent upon them. So you've got your hair person, your makeup person, your wardrobe person, your trainer, your personal chef. All these people need you to stay a star so that they can be paid.

[00:36:23] And so what are they going to do? They're going to tell you how great you are and that you're the most beautiful, and you're the funniest, and you're the smartest. You're the biggest celebrity that ever existed in the history of television or movies. And after a while, because so many people are telling you that, you start to believe it.

[00:36:41] And that's the biggest mistake you could ever make, to believe that you really are a superstar when you're not. Look, Nicole Kidman, superstar.

[00:36:49] Kate: Yes. Love her.

[00:36:51] Clinton: She's never going to not be a superstar. She wanted that more than anything. She is that more than anything. But very few of us get to that level. Does that make sense? Taking pride in the little things. Taking pride in keeping your life, as normal as possible.

[00:37:05] Kate: And I think in my experience as an entertainment reporter, the biggest celebrities, you say Nicole Kidman, the Tom Cruise, the Tom Hanks, the Johnny Depps, they were by far the most genuinely kind, humble, down to earth people-- even people, not just celebrities. And then you'd meet the C or D list person I'm sure you've never heard of and it was insecurity, but just the arrogance and treating wait staff poorly and treating reporters poorly. And I never understood that. And I'm glad I was an entertainment reporter. I was a baby. I was 22 to 26 on the red carpets out here in Hollywood. And I remember that I learned so much from them.

[00:37:40] Or even the mean publicists who would pull Tom Cruise away, "Don't talk to that press." And he would very kindly say, "These people--" The movie would be over, the movie Premiere would be over, and Tom would still be out on the red carpet talking to everyone. He is like, "You made the effort to be here. I'm going to talk to you. And was happy to do it." And I learned so much from him.

[00:38:00] I watched Tom Hanks just be so unfazed by his level of fame. And so for me, I'm not going to that level of fame, but as a human, just wow. And studying them more. I'm an Aquarius, I'm a humanitarian. This show is about humanity, but really embracing that.

[00:38:19] And that's why I think it's so hard when we see people, especially even some people we know or care about change so much when they get some fame. But they'll have their moment of crashing down. And that's why it's such a testament to your character. You've just remained the same, this whole journey. It's remarkable.

[00:38:36] Clinton: I have. Yeah. You've known me for a long time now, so I really don't think that I have changed that much over the years. My financial situation has changed a lot since I started--  since I first moved to New York City, 30 something years ago, which I'm grateful for that.

[00:38:51] But you think about people want to work with people they like. So who wants to work with an absolute diva or debo, where it's like, there are other people who can do this job just as well as you can, and they're going to be easy to work with, so I'm going to go with them.

[00:39:08] Kate: Oh, I like that.

[00:39:10] Clinton: Yeah, yeah.

[00:39:11] Kate: I'd like if you could, just to take people on a little journey, and you've told me, but it's all just so interesting because so many people want a taste of fame, and everyone wants that, the money that comes with it, maybe not some of the other nonsense. And you got famous so long ago in a whole different world that we lived in.

[00:39:27] But just even how What Not to Wear fell into your lap and then this evolution now to Wear Whatever The F You Want. I would just love to share more and even working with Stacy London. And even in the theme of, I think so many people are like, "Gosh, how do you do that?" Or, "How can I do that?" Whatever that thing is. A lot of people listening may not want to do that, but they have this big goal. They don't even know where to start or how does it even happen. So anything you could share about that journey?

[00:39:55] Clinton: I am not even sure how somebody would get into TV these days because the TV industry has changed so much. My friends who are producers are like, we have no idea what's happening right now. There are shows that get fought in the room, as they say. And then there are shows that languish for years before they're ever made.

[00:40:15] And there are some that get picked up that never get made. It's just a really tricky place to be in right now. And also I like to think about it as the entertainment pie. So the entertainment pie, think about the 1950s, was almost like a cupcake size, like a mini hand pie where it's like you turned on the TV and you had a just a few different choices.

[00:40:34] I love Lucy and leave it to Beaver, or whatever. And then that pie kept getting bigger and bigger and bigger. And I was lucky enough to get a slice of that pie in the early 2000s and I was really grateful for that slice of pie. But now the pie has gotten so huge. The pie is the size of Los Angeles, and everybody is fighting for it. Not even a slice, a sliver, a crumb.

[00:40:59] So I don't know. I'm not sure to be honest with you whether it is even worth getting into the entertainment industry right now. If you love acting because it's in your blood, for example, I would say, "Go act. We will always need actors." Go on the stage and act in everything that you could possibly get cast in.

[00:41:22] And if you become famous, great. That's some bonus for you. That's icing on the cake. But you will have spent 40 years doing something that you absolutely loved. But if you don't love being in the public eye, or you don't really have a skill that you're passionate about, I don't think the entertainment industry is right for you. I really don't.

[00:41:43] There's so many influencers right now and so many content creators. New ones are born every day. And how many people do you want to compete with to get a 500-dollar sponsorship for, whatever it is, like eyeliner?

[00:41:59] Kate: Yeah.

[00:41:59] Clinton: That's a lot of competition for $500 in hawking eyeliner. But if you love it, if you love staying in your apartment all day and doing makeup tutorials, I'm not judging you, but there are other ways in the world to make money. You also have to think about this. It's like you can get a job to make money with the skill that you're good at, and then use that money to do all the things that you really love doing.

[00:42:23] Kate: Yeah, yeah. Exactly. But you have had this longevity. And even to have this essential remake of a show from so long ago, was Stacy open to doing this again? What has the journey been like from these two shows over such a long period of time?

[00:42:41] Clinton: Well, here's the thing. Stacy and I have talked about this publicly, and we talk about it a lot privately. We hit it off like-- what's the expression? Like a house on fire, I think is what it's called. We just got along like a house on fire when we first met each other.

[00:42:58] It's like we were completing each other's sentences, laughing at the same jokes.  We loved the same things in pop culture. We were born the same year, so we have a lot of the same history together. We just absolutely loved it. As the years went by, people don't realize how difficult What Not to Wear was to shoot. Our schedule was ridiculous.

[00:43:19] We had zero free time. We were always next to each other, literally sitting next to each other all day, every day, traveling the country. It became really rough on both of us, and we grew apart. We had a blowout fight on season 6, I think it was, and then we made up.

[00:43:42] And so for the last five seasons of the show, we were friends. We were totally friends. It started out really high, went low, and then got really high again. And we were so fine with each other for the last five years of the show. Then years go by, and I was on The Chew, and I brought her around the Chew as a guest several times, whenever she wanted to promote.

[00:44:05] We had super fun times on that show together. And then I wrote a book called I Hate Everyone Except You. And I was like, [Inaudible]. And I wrote about my What Not to Wear experience, and I just said that Stacy and I had a love-hate relationship, which was true. We loved each other. We had a moment of hating each other, and then we loved each other again and some other things like that.

[00:44:30] Well, some websites pulled quotes out of context and used them as click bait. And the quotes were, Clinton Kelly hated Stacy London. And I was like, "Wait a minute." The quote was we had a love-hate relationship, and now you're using the poll quote that I hated Stacy London.

[00:44:47] And Stacy saw that. I didn't think she saw those. Somebody called her, a celebrity who will remain nameless called her to tell her that,  and she believed that that's what I was writing about in my book, which was not the case at all.

[00:45:00] So we had this feud in the media that didn't even exist. There was no feud, but the media made it seem like we hated each other's guts. And we just both went on with our lives without checking that out with each other. That was our big mistake. Neither one of us called the other to be like, "Hey, are you cool? Because I saw this website that said I hated you. I hope you didn't think that that's what I wrote about you, because I'm happy to read you the entire chapter of the book. It doesn't say that at all."

[00:45:31] And so she didn't check it out with me either.  And we both take responsibility for that. So when I called her with the idea for this show, she said, "Yeah, let's talk about what went wrong between us." And so we had a great conversation, and we realized that we love working with each other.

[00:45:46] And even though we hadn't spoken in five years, we had evolved in very similar ways in that we no longer had any interest in telling people what to do, but we wanted to help people achieve their style goals. So we were like, we are on the exact same page despite the fact that we haven't spoken in five years. And so it was really fun to do the show together.

[00:46:07] Kate: Thank you for sharing that. I think sometimes where we are in our journey, some people fall away and they fall away forever. The whole reason season, lifetime thing with relationships. I think it's always special when we can grow independently of one another, whatever the relationship is, and come back around. And then in your case, come back around and create something so special, but then we all get to benefit from as well. So when we're all tuning in to Wear Whatever The F You Want on Amazon Prime. Correct, Amazon Prime?

[00:46:35] Clinton: Yes, exactly.

[00:46:36] Kate: What do you want us to feel or experience when we watch this show?

[00:46:42] Clinton: I would love it if you could get lost in our client's story and take the journey along with them and imagine yourself in their shoes.

[00:46:56] Kate: Hmm.

[00:46:57] Clinton: So it's like, imagine you really wanted to look a certain way, but didn't have the courage, or there were other reasons standing between you and that special look, and then letting two people come into your life and say, we're going to create this style for you, the style that you always wanted.

[00:47:16] We just did all the shopping for you. Here's a room full of clothes that would help support that style. And then imagine what it might feel like to go out in the world in that fantasy style of yours. It's not fantasy, fantasy. It's just one that really reflects who you are and the message that you want to be sending to the rest of the world.

[00:47:35] It's so powerful to think about, like, oh, I can show who I am through my clothing choices, through my accessory choices, through my hair and makeup choices. A lot of people have not been able to do that. It's an enjoyable watch, I'll tell you that.

[00:47:48] I've seen the completed episodes, and I'm like, "Oh, this feels right." It feels right with who I am as human being, who Stacy is as a human being, and we're helping other people just learn a little something about themselves. I'm at a point in my life where I just want to help you be the better version of you if you want me to help you. I'm not going to tell you what to do to become a better human. Look, I'm not sure I have all those answers, but I actually can help you feel better about yourself if you want to take away advice. If you don't, that's fine too.

[00:48:21] Kate: Yeah, what I'm hearing is freedom. I can't think of how many times I've thought or said, "I can't wear that because this, or I don't wear that because that." And then I think of all the shows I did at Macy's with you, and I ended up buying everything that I was ever styled in because I'm like, I would've never thought I could wear that. I'd never put myself in that.

[00:48:36] And so I love that. And so I hope that people get to take home outfits, or at least now they know that, or for me, doing these shows with you or watching you. And that's why I can't wait to tune in because you bring so much joy-- besides the freedom, which is my number one value-- to getting dressed, putting yourself together, and expressing yourself to the world. And even my dad who was so not into fashion and is 80 years old, he came to some of the shows to watch us.

[00:49:04] Clinton: Oh, yeah. Yeah, I remember.

[00:49:05] Kate: [Inaudible] giving advice to my mother, like, "As Clinton would say," or, "Cutting your butt in half." Like, "Make sure that shirt comes down. It cuts your butt in half, and it's more flattering." Or, "Wear this." He still remembers those tips. So even getting those one takeaways where you just feel more confident or you're having more fun, instead of, "Oh, I put on weight," or, "Oh, I look too skinny in this," or, "Oh, I look old," or whatever the dumb thing it is that we say to ourselves.

[00:49:31] Instead, it's now, "Oh, Clinton would like this because of this," or, "Oh my gosh." And so I think we all need that now. There's enough information telling us where we got it wrong and how we don't measure up, but you're just giving us that freedom to be.

[00:49:46] Clinton: Well, Kate, I got to tell you something. I'm going to call you up one of these days when somebody comes at me for telling me that I was hypercritical of people on What Not to Wear. But you knew me. People saw me on the show, and everybody on the show on What Not to Wear signed a release saying they're willing to participate in the show. And in that release is, implicitly, play along with the show's theme.

[00:50:13] And I never criticized anybody without their consent. And you saw me in how many shows that we did across the country, where I would go into the audience and I would say, if anybody wants my advice or wants me to critique their outfit, please let me know, and I'll give you my honest opinion and how I think you could maybe look a little bit better.

[00:50:31] But I was never that person who was just being a bitch to other people. I was really never that judgmental. My philosophy was, we're playing a game, and if you want to win it, I can teach you how to win it, because I seem to have figured out a lot of the rules, and I can help you play along with those rules.

[00:50:52] Now, the rules have gone out the window. Anyway, I think I took a little tangent to the point you were trying to make, but we go back so far, and I get a little anxious because I've seen some things in the media where people are like, "Oh, Stacy and Clinton were so nasty to people for 10 years."

[00:51:06] I went to tour. I was like, it was like a joke. People were in on-- they were in on that. We were playing along with them. It was a television show. That was the point of the TV show, to be a little snarky. But we weren't being snarky to randos on the street. We were being snarky to people who agreed to be on the show.

[00:51:24] Kate: Yeah. I just heard in my mind as you're talking, my grandmother saying, "Consider the source." And it goes back to what we were talking about, and it's like people who have never worked in TV or entertainment, a show where you're just, "Kate, you look beautiful." Sally, you look gorgeous." That's not a show. That's not a show. Nobody is watching that, and nobody cares.

[00:51:45] And so there has to be some level. And again, people are agreeing and signing up. It's not at will. And that's also the show. So people know what it is, but I think anyone that's saying like, "Oh, Clinton and Stacy are being so nasty," me as the coach, and your husband, the psychologist, what I would say to that person is, so talk to me about the times that you're nasty to yourself. Or when was the time that someone was really nasty to you and hearing Clinton say something is triggering you? And it's really about your mother criticizing you 20 years ago. It's not about what Clinton and Stacy are saying.

[00:52:21] We should have Damon on this show. There's so much psychology behind all of it. And you're right. People are looking for, you're an easy target. You're cute, you're funny. You're smart. You're on a TV show. You have nice things. You have a nice house. So I get it, but I think everybody, we can all focus a little bit more on ourselves. What you would say to me, you would never say, I'm thinking of a crop top, "Girl, you can't wear that being that size or without the six pack." But you'd be like, "Girl, you have the most beautiful curves. Let's show those off."

[00:52:51] Or, for me, I'm like, my boobs look amazing when I've gained weight. So it's like, let's wear something to show that off. But you laugh because even now I've lost weight and I'm like, "Okay. I feel good in some places, but I miss my bigger boobs." There's always something, right?

[00:53:07] Clinton: You're never going to be perfect, literally. It's never going to work out that you love every single thing in your body from head to toe. It was Catherine's Deneuve, right? Didn't she say you have to make a choice between face or ass, or something like that?

[00:53:19] Kate: Yes. Yeah. Where it's like, when you're thin, I'm like, "Oh my gosh, my ass fell. My boobs aren't as fabulous." But then when my boobs and butt look amazing, I'm like, "Ooh, my stomach. There's so many things I'm like, "Ooh, my stomach is really trying to make an appearance a little too much.

[00:53:35] So if you ever have a bad moment, you should call me because I just think of two. When we were meeting for dinner in New York City, and I went and got there before you, and it was a wait, and there were no tables. And I'm like, "can we have a quiet table in the back by the fireplace?"

[00:53:49] And it was, "No, no, no. And it's going to be 45 minutes." And then you showed up and suddenly the best table in the house by the fireplace, the four top that they never give two people was suddenly available. And we sat down. So see, there are perks. There's shit you have to deal with, but then you get to have that.

[00:54:06] Clinton: That's true. I do. I can get a table in most restaurants in New York, which is really nice.

[00:54:11] Kate: Oh, I love that moment. That so epic. I go out to eat with you and Justin. Same with Justin. He's not famous, but he is gorgeous. So it's like 45-minute wait, and then Justin shows up and miraculously there's availability to sit immediately.

[00:54:27] Clinton: I just want to make it clear that 99.99% of the interactions I have with people are positive. I just want to say that.

[00:54:35] Kate: People love you. People love you.

[00:54:38] Clinton: Well, that's very sweet of you to say. You had asked me a question about fame before, and I don't think I answered it the way I wanted to, but it's really wonderful to walk down the street and people just say like, "Oh, hi. I love you." It's a wonderful thing. I wish that everybody could experience that. That's the only part of fame that I've really appreciated, or it's a part of fame that I've appreciated the most, is that people really seem to genuinely get a smile out of the things that I've done for them. So that feels good.

[00:55:07] Kate: Yeah. I even think of anything I posted of us working together and men and women, young, old, gay, straight, black, white, everyone's like, "Oh my God, I love him." In some ways you are like Santa Claus. You make people happy.

[00:55:21] Clinton: Ho ho ho. Okay, yeah. Back in the day.

[00:55:28] Kate: Oh my gosh. So we could talk forever, but I would just love to get a parting thought here. You've had such an extraordinary life personally and professionally, and you're just, again, one of my favorite all-time people. You really are so special, Clinton. When you look back on your life thus far, what are you most proud of?

[00:55:51] Clinton: Oh my God, I'm getting a little emotional about this, but I am the most proud of the authentic relationships I have had with the people in my life. I have a really tightly knit family, and we've gone through our ups and downs. We've had it out, but we prioritize being a family.

[00:56:13] We said, "This is important, and so we're going to work on this." My relationship with my husband, I'm just trying to make sure that I put that above anything else. My relationship with my friends. My closest friends I've known since I was 13 years old. So we're talking about 42 years of friendship.

[00:56:34] And that doesn't just happen. That happens because you make the effort. And I'm proud of the fact that I put the effort into actual real relationships with real, honest, solid human beings. Am I proud of my career? Yeah, but I'm 10 times prouder of the relationships that I have created, maintained, and nourished over the past 55 years of my life.

[00:57:03] Kate: That's so beautiful. And again, it is that testament. I asked how you stayed sane, how you've stayed so nice, how you've kept money. You're not bankrupt. You're not suffering like so many people who've been in the limelight.

[00:57:13] And it is, I think, such a testament to our environment and the people that we choose to surround ourselves with, but also the relationships that we nurture, and taking the time to nurture those and not being like, I'm too busy. I'm too famous. I can't be bothered, especially with Joe from the fifth grade.

[00:57:28] But that Joe gives you that sense of safety and groundedness, and he really truly sees you. So if you are having a bad day or getting a mean comment, Joe's like, "Whatever." Reminds you who the f you are while you wear whatever the f you want. And I hope everyone really takes that message to heart and takes the time to really nurture the relationships of the people who matter to them.

[00:57:48] Clinton: But I also want to make sure anybody who's listening to that knows that some people are not worth your time. So don't be a doormat to people. If you're around a friend or a family member who is really just an energy suck or is constantly complaining or criticizing you, just cut them loose. Life is too short.

[00:58:07] Kate: That's a great message too. Thank you so much for that. Gosh, now I'm craving some delicious meal in New York. I'm like, "I want to come meet you for some meal." It's different time--

[00:58:15] Clinton: I wish you would.

[00:58:16] Kate: Oh my gosh. So we'll have to do that next time we're in each other's cities. I do miss being in New York, but Clinton Kelly, Wear Whatever The F You Want on Amazon Prime. Everybody, check out this show. I'm so excited, and thank you so much for being here. I loved our conversation.

[00:58:31] Clinton: Well, I loved it too, and I love you, Kate. So have a wonderful day, sweetheart.

[00:58:35] Kate: I love you. You too. Thank you for watching, everybody. We'll see you next time on Rawish. Have a good day. Bye-bye.