The Bachelorette’s Andrew Spencer on Emotional Vulnerability, The Cost of Being Inauthentic & Navigating Breakups

[00:00:00] Andrew: You like to put that image in your head of what the life is going to look like. When you start doing that, you start doing things that are not genuine. And as soon as I'm not genuine, I look like a fool. And I think that's what happened to me. I lost my cool because I wasn't being myself.

[00:00:18] When you're on a team, you'll see all these guys. Those are your brothers. Marine Corps, those are my brothers. They can even be from the harshest, the worst, or completely different backgrounds. It doesn't matter because they're together and they have one common goal. So I think when you start off kids like that, where they have a common goal and they're not enemies, that's when you're going to start to see, people start bonding with each other, start knowing each other a little bit better.

[00:00:41] Never having someone there consistently, just for any support, at a young age to your biggest success, your biggest failures was heartbreak. I still cheer up about it just from the sheer fact that, yeah, you left a kid by himself.

[00:00:59] That's the worst part about it. When I have my child, I think there's no amount that I wouldn't go for them, or showing up for dance recital. I'm going to be there. I'm going to show up.

[00:01:10] I think it's it's probably why the world is the way it is, because there's not a lot of people that show up for them in those moments where they need them. I could have went down a dark path or be angry at the world or angry at him. But at the end of the day, I just realized that it's a teaching moment that I can now share with my kids and make sure that they never have to worry about that, that whether I'm living or not, they're going to know that if I am breathing, I will be there.

[00:01:51] Kate: Hey, there. Welcome back to another great episode of Rawish with Kate Eckman. I'm already smiling because we've had more technical difficulties than we can shake a stick at with our next guest, and he's really special. And you may recognize him from one of the biggest, most popular television shows of all time, the Bachelorette.

[00:02:13] And we're going to talk a lot more than just what happened on camera and what we all see. We're really going to dive into who he really is as a person. And really, I like to talk to people about what they don't normally share with people. We spoke yesterday, and I was so blown away by his vulnerability and his candor and ability to open up.

[00:02:35] And so I think his story will really shine a light on things that we need to talk about, even though sometimes they can be unpleasant, and what we can learn from even the most difficult things that we go through. So without further ado, please welcome Andrew Spencer from Katie's season of the Bachelorette to Rawish. Thank you so much for being here, Andrew.

[00:02:53] Andrew: Thanks for having me, Kate. I appreciate it.

[00:02:54] Kate: I so appreciate. You never know what you're going to get when you talk to your a friend of a friend, and we never know what we're going to get when we meet new people, if we're going to connect just superficially or can really go in deep.

[00:03:08] And we just really had this soulful connection right away, even though we're meeting here virtually. And you're not 40, 50, 60 years old. Still so young, but so wise and have so much depth. How do you think that you're able to be in that place at such a young age?

[00:03:28] Andrew: Everyone has experiences that change them and alter them. I think sometimes it comes in early time in life, through trauma or whatever the case may be, where you had to change your aspects and your surroundings. I think it really happened early for me.

[00:03:42] At the early age, we were moving a lot, and we had some bad circumstances in next-- I just, flipped for me, and I had to make a change. And from there, I think the experiences that I've had like going on the show, playing football in Austria, making it to the NFL and then getting cut, all those lead to where you are right now. You understand failure. You understand different things that happen in life.

[00:04:06] Kate: I think what stuck out for me yesterday was you have such a glow and this big, beautiful smile that we would never think that you've been through something, for me, that's quite heartbreaking. I'd love if you could take us back to what happened with your father when you were just a young child and how it impacted your life.

[00:04:27] Andrew: Yeah. I get everything that I am right now from my mom. She always taught us never really panic, and to do everything with a smile. So I like to think I'm a happy person, but at the same time, you smile through it all, even the bad times, and don't panic. Your next best day can be around the corner.

[00:04:45] Obviously starting in early age at five years old, my dad getting locked up, was very difficult for my mother. I think that was the hard part. Because not only was she losing her husband to go into jail, he was cheating on her.

[00:05:00] So it was a Bonnie and Clyde situation with him and his mistress, and they both got locked up. So that left my mom not only with four kids, but also with a broken heart. So dealing with that and understanding at an early age that things are going to be different.

[00:05:17] I'm not going to be like the other kids. And I think she made a really good job of just sticking with it and working a ton of jobs. And I actually started playing football right after it happened, so he's never gotten to see me play. He got to see my brother play for one year, so it was like next year for me was like, oh, I can't wait. I'm up next. I think I'm really good.

[00:05:39] I would practice out there with my brother. See, I wasn't allowed to fully practice. I was four, but I would run with them. And I had this Chicago Bears outfit. I was such a nut for football. And then once I got on that field, man, I was spectacular at an early age.

[00:05:54] And like I said, when you're missing someone like that, where I saw my brother getting so much support, love, oh man, you were a monster right there, this and that, and for me to never ever have it, you don't really notice that right away. It hits you as you get older.

[00:06:13] And as I was going through life, actually it happened to me when I was in the Bachelorette, and we had a talk about it. It was in ITN. And I never really thought about it because there was questions being asked that no partner of mine have ever asked me.

[00:06:27] And Katie started asking me questions about me being a father, da da da. And then, in my ITN, my producer asked me, "What are your thoughts about being a father? What's your experience [Inaudible] father?" And realizing that never having someone there-- they don't have my mom there-- but never having someone there, consistently, just for any support, at a young age, to your biggest success, your biggest failures was heartbreak.

[00:07:00] I still cheer up about it just from the sheer fact that, yeah, you left a kid by himself. That's the worst part about it. And I dream about it. I talk about it all the time, about when I have my child, I think there's no amount that I wouldn't go for them, or showing up for dance recital, whatever the case may be. I'm going to be there. I'm going to show up.

[00:07:25] I think, like I said, it's probably why the world is the way it is, because there's not a lot of people that show up for them in those moments where they need them. I could have went either way with my situation. I could have went down a dark path or be angry at the world or angry at him.

[00:07:40] But at the end of the day, I just realized that it's a teaching moment for myself, in life and experience that I can now share with my kids and make sure that they never have to worry about that, that whether I'm living or not, they're going to know that if I am breathing, I will be there, no matter what.

[00:07:59] I wish every kid could get that. I wish every kid deserves that. If you have it, don't take it for granted. I know it sucks sometimes when parents are all on you, but the fact that they care means the world. And that's just my message, I would say. Like I said, my dad gets out for the first time this year.

[00:08:19] And yeah, he never got to see me play. I always dreamt if I would still be playing, what the case would be? Would he show up at an NFL game where I have him out there? What our relationship would be. So still figuring out what our relationship would be.

[00:08:35] Kate: So your father has been in prison for 25 years, so most of your life. He's getting out this year of all years. Do you plan on seeing him? Do you want to reach out to him? Are you going to be eager to hear from him if he reaches out at all? Where do you stand in terms of that relationship?

[00:08:56] Andrew: I don't know yet. Obviously I am a God-fearing man, and forgiveness is deep-rooted in me, but there's some thing she's send and done. There's no resentment towards him. It's just sadness of the amount of time that was missed and gone, the amount of struggle that my mom had to go through, myself, my siblings. You start to think of that, and you don't want to think about that upon meeting someone. But that is reality.

[00:09:25] You can't go back. And I feel like he was punished more than anything. He let his family down. I think you're given one job as a father and that's to be there, provide, and protect. And he didn't do his job. He didn't fulfill it. And that's me thinking of it as an athlete. You don't do your job, you're fired, or whatever the case may be. There's no coming back from it. But I have a little compassion for him. I don't have a plan for it. Let it just happen naturally.

[00:10:00] Kate: So you had-- a lot of people experience and don't feel comfortable talking about for whatever reason, significant childhood trauma. You go on to become a professional athlete and experience success in your football career. And then you find yourself being approached to be on one of the biggest reality shows and biggest TV shows in any genre of all time and get catapulted into the spotlight in Katie season, which was following the most controversial time and the whole Bachelor franchise with Chris Harrison, the beloved host becoming not beloved anymore and being exited out for pretty insensitive racial remarks that he made to Rachel Lindsay around all the scandal with Rachel Kirkconnell and Matt James.

[00:10:53] And if you don't know about it, you can go read about it. But what was that like then, being thrust into the spotlight as an African-American man, when there was all these racial tensions happening within the world and within this franchise?

[00:11:07] Andrew: I grew up in a rough area. Then we moved once my dad was in jail. My mom found a boyfriend, moved in with him. So I've gotten to see worlds from different point of views, different diversities, and I play football. I play on a football team. I get support. I know people are like, "Oh, whatever," but you get to know different backgrounds of people and how people operate. So I think that that was very important to me to have. And I translate that into my everyday life and treating people with respect, treating people with kindness.

[00:11:43] So I've been the only black guy in rooms. I've been in a whole bunch different ethnic groups. And I think that I'm very comfortable in every environment because I've been myself, and I've learned to respect each and everyone's way of life.

[00:11:58] And it's been good for me going on to the show when this was going on. I didn't really bat an eye because I lived in Austria. I'm coming from Austria. I'm the only American really on my team. I only want to speak in English and everyone's speaking German. So I'm okay with being comfortable in uncomfortable situations. But it was cool after all that to be on the show and be able to speak on race and everything.

[00:12:22] I think it was a perfect storm for me. I think I did touch on it a little bit on that season. I talked about interracial couples, being able to understand what it's like having a black child if we do have a kid. I think that was important to understand. I think he absolutely crushed every single answer.

[00:12:41] And I think that's what really made me fall for her, is the way she delivered and resonated with everything that I was saying. I think it was perfect. It was a perfect storm. So I think conversations like that bring people together. Stop being uncomfortable in those situations.

[00:12:59] You never know where you're going to be. You never know who you're going to meet. You never know what bonds you're going to make. So I think it was very important. I think it was very cool to be able to be a beacon in that light at that time where race was a big issue.

[00:13:18] Kate: I find this to be a very racist statement where people say, and it's usually white people saying this, like, "Oh, I'm color blind. Color doesn't matter." I find that very offensive because our race and our ethnicity is part of our heritage and our identity. And to be proud of that in certain stances. And then there's times where I'm quite embarrassed by what some people of my race have said and done. But I don't identify with that, and we are individuals.

[00:13:44] Andrew: I've heard it all. I've heard, "Oh, you're one of the good Black people. I've been told that. And you hear some things. There's some disturbing things and some people, I would call it more ignorant and just not knowing of what's going on and where we are in the world.

[00:14:02] That's why I'm just like, I'm bigger than that. I hear some things like when people say I don't see color. I see color. I understand differences. Doesn't mean I disliked it. We're all different in every shape and form. And I think it's important to be able to understand that I'm a Black person and understand what I have to do and what I have to go through unintentionally, without you even knowing. There's things that you might not know that I had to go through. It's the world you live in, but navigating it has been pretty easy for me.

[00:14:34] Kate: So what was the energy like on set? Because you were the season right after-- Chris Harrison, was he still there when you were there? I can't remember.

[00:14:43] Andrew: No, Kaitlyn and Tayshia.

[00:14:45] Kate: Oh, that's right. You were the first season that Chris Harrison was gone after that scandal. What was the chatter like? What was the energy like?

[00:14:55] Andrew: Obviously, you know the elephant in the room, but I think we had such a good group of guys where just wanted to be present. Obviously, we knew Chris Harrison wasn't there. I never met the guy. I don't know. All I've heard is what people have said about him.

[00:15:09] But at that point it didn't matter to me. There were things that we were all going to discuss, and we were either going to get along with each other in the house or you weren't. My main focus was just to experience it, just go into it without overthinking anything.

[00:15:22] When there was race being touched on, I think it was handled perfectly and handled with grace. And so never felt anything on the show that made me feel uncomfortable or any other black people on the show feel uncomfortable. I think everyone was pretty likable, liked each other pretty much.

[00:15:41] So it was good. I have nothing bad to say about the show. Obviously, you wish you would have been able to be a part of the the original. I wasn't even in the mansion. Didn't even go to a mansion. Didn't travel. We were stuck in New Mexico, and I didn't get to meet Chris Harrison, obviously, what's going on.

[00:16:01] So I don't know anything about him. He has nothing to do with me. Obviously, we're both connected to this franchise, but I can't really speak on him because I don't really know.

[00:16:11] Kate: So what can we still do to improve race relations?

[00:16:16] Andrew: I think it starts with children. I think early on we got to make sure they're in more diverse situations where they can see it, be able to learn from it faster and understand this is acceptable, to be around these people, and it's not acceptable to spread hate or to have differences in a way, look at someone different.

[00:16:36] I think that's important. I think that's where people learn faster. When you're on a team, you'll see all these guys. They'll tell you every single time, "When you're on a team, those are your brothers." Marine Corps, those are my brothers. They can even be from the harshest, the worst, or completely different backgrounds.

[00:16:52] It doesn't matter because they're together and they have one common goal, and that's to be somewhere. So I think when you start off kids like that, where they have a common goal and they're not enemies, that's when you're going to start to see people start bonding with each other, start knowing each other a little bit better.

[00:17:07] But there's so many separation stuff in different neighborhoods, and that's why you go off by stereotypes. I think that's one of the biggest things, is everyone's like, I don't know. I've never lived it. I've never seen it. Let me just throw out a stereotype or social norm that I think is happening that actually doesn't happen, which I think is America's biggest problem, especially when people talk about border stuff. You know what I mean?

[00:17:33] It's like, well, they're killing, pillaging, and all that stuff. I'm like, well, that's just because you're hearing it. You've never seen it. You've never been down there. If you've been down there, you're reporting it. It's one thing. But that's one of the biggest things for me, is making sure that I'm well integrated, always, especially at a younger age.

[00:17:49] Kate: I love that you said a common goal. I haven't heard it phrased that way before, and that is a time when I do see people coming together. I think one instance, 9/11, and it really brought our country together because we had a common goal of healing and mourning from such a horrific tragedy. And it really does start when we are children and our parents setting the example. And kids go to school and repeat what the parents said.

[00:18:15] Andrew: Absolutely.

[00:18:16] Kate: My nephew would come home and say things. He doesn't have some political opinion as a five-year-old, but some kids said something at school. So it really does start with our parents. And then going back to, gosh, when you were five, like my nephew, your dad's going to prison for 25 years.

[00:18:34] So how will you as a parent right the wrong here and steer the ship in a different direction and use your father's absence as a huge catalyst for transformation in terms of the man that you want to be?

[00:18:49] Andrew: I can't act like I have all the answers, but I think one of the things, like I said before, is just be present and showing up. That's the one thing I can control every single time, is being there for them. But otherwise, teachings, that's just going to have to be going through experiences like going on the show for the first time.

[00:19:06] I don't know what to expect, but me being there and actively being involved is how you're going to become better. And that's in every aspect of life. The more you do something the more you're present or available. The best ability is availability. So the more you are there, the better you are going to be.

[00:19:29] Kate: I'm writing this down. The best ability is availability. Say more about that. I've never heard that. I love that.

[00:19:37] Andrew: Oh, that's a huge thing we teach when I was in football, is you can't get better if you're not there. You know what I mean? So you can't score more touchdowns if you're not on the field, if you're hurt. So I'd never missed a practice. I never got hurt because I believed that if I was off the field, I was not going to get my spot back.

[00:19:59] And it's a very common term that's always used and thrown around, and I believe it to be true in every aspect of life. So yeah, you show up, things can happen. You don't show up, and you know for a fact 100%, that that's not going to happen, nothing's going to happen. So I think it's very important.

[00:20:18] Kate: I think that's such great advice in any environment in any situation. I think sometimes we think as friends, business associates, romantic partners, that we have to reinvent the wheel in terms of showing our value or that we love someone. And just the simple act of showing up and sometimes sitting in silence with that person or showing up, and you don't have the words and you don't need the words, or it's just like, what can I do for you, or what do you need for me?

[00:20:44] Andrew: Yeah. I learned that in my last relationship. She's really good at that. But I was still learning, and obviously you don't know who that person is yet. You're just figuring it out. But then at the same time, I start talking to someone else and I try to bring that same thing. They think it's weird that I am so available and wanting to know and wanting to be understanding. And it's such a weird time that we're in. It's like, give more. Don't give too much. Relationships is difficult right now because of that aspect of trying to be there for someone or being there too much.

[00:21:22] Kate: I think we all have wounds from childhood, whatever your childhood was like, even if you thought it was great or it was great. There's still things that we're all wounded by that are unresolved. And then we keep layering it and projecting onto others, dumping it on others. And so it's so important to just take this time and really reflect on how the situation impacted us, talk it through with people. And for me, I'm committed to doing the healing work because I don't want to be a match for the people who are in that place where I think it's weird that you're healthy, essentially.

[00:21:59] Andrew: Yeah.

[00:21:59] Kate: I want to be a match for the healthy folks who can show up and some healthy availability.

[00:22:05] Andrew: Mm-hmm.

[00:22:09] Kate: So what was one of your biggest takeaways from dating Katie on the Bachelorettes in front of the world?

[00:22:17] Andrew: I think I would say I had a boy mindset before the Bachelorette. What you think dating is and what do you think marriage was is completely different to when you're even slammed with these questions. Obviously no one does that, but the bachelor. It's like, boom, right away.

[00:22:37] Who do you want? And be like, why do you want to get married? How many kids do you want to have? We're getting ready to get proposed to in four weeks. So you're like, "Wow. Haven't been asked that. Haven't got that far." And you could be dating someone for six months on the outside and never had these conversations. So having them was crucial to me because that's when it clicked.

[00:22:58] It was just like, "All right. I got to change this boyish behavior and try to actually achieve what I want to get out in life, relationships, and with my future family." So I give her a lot of credit because she had questions and answers that hit home for me.

[00:23:17] Kate: A lot of people would love to be in your position, being selected. You didn't even have to apply or hope you got chosen. They came to you. You were approached and discovered. So many people would love to be chosen and be on a reality show, get access to instant celebrity or instant fame and have that attention and be able to leverage that for other career and personal opportunities. What advice would you give to people? And is it all it's cracked up to be?

[00:23:47] Andrew: I think, one, make sure your Instagram and Twitters and social medias don't have any crazy contents or sayings on there, even when you're 10. So make sure that's cleaned up. Two, I would say, always be yourself. It's going to come out at some point. It's a social experience.

[00:24:07] You have zero sleep. You sleep about three, four hours a day. There's no TV. There's no phone. There's no radio. There's no music. So all you have is the people in there. You're trying to date someone that's dating 30 other men. And on top of that, you are drinking, so it is a nightmare storm.

[00:24:25] So be prepared to be yourself because when you have all that drained, you can't help but be yourself. And it's going to switch up from what you gave up, from what you started with to where you're at now. So you want to make sure you're the same person throughout. So I would make sure that's what you do if you're thinking about being reality TV.

[00:24:42] Celebrity status or whatever you want to call it, fame, make sure you keep the people around you that you always going to want to touch grass, is what I always say. That's why I stay in Chicago and not in LA or New York. Sometimes it could be too big for me, and I get too ahead of myself.

[00:24:59] I always have to keep myself humble. That's just the Midwest person in me. So I always like to come home to Chicago. And my friends are going to let me know. They're going to tell me when I'm being too much. And I am much, trust me. I am a very confident-- I could be cocky at some points, but that's just who I am.

[00:25:14] I've always been that kind of kid since I was younger. But just having them around me and just remembering where I'm from and who I am is huge because you could be out in that world. You get lost in it. And you can be hanging out with some top celebrities one day like, oh, I'm hanging out with this person. You forget your friends and then miscepsilarities leave and then you're by yourself. So always remember who you are, family, friends, and friend.

[00:25:42] Kate: I find that anytime I instantly click with someone and we get talking and I say, "Where are you from?" It's always the Midwest. I'm from Cincinnati and--

[00:25:51] Andrew: I think Midwest have the best people in the world. I wouldn't say the world, but in America, the Midwest has it figured out, I think. In my mind, we have it figured out as a person-to-person base, like, meeting someone. How do you talk to people? You have manners. You have respect. I think it goes a long way being from the Midwest. It's just easier for us to get along with everyone.

[00:26:18] Kate: It's so funny because even yesterday I just ran into Sephora and Beverly Hills quickly, doing my thing. And I'm used to LA where no one really makes eye contact or smiles for the most part. If you go into a store, they'll smile at you, but it's the weirdest vibe and energy.

[00:26:35] LA has different neighborhoods, so Beverly Hills is definitely its own energy. And there's always a lot of tourists in Beverly Hills, but I happen to look up, and there was a blonde woman. She looked like she could have been my sister, and she was giving me the biggest smile. And I'm like, she must be visiting from the Midwest. It's so funny. Because it's just a different-- we all smile at each other.

[00:26:56] Andrew: It's so much different. I think that's what we were all taught growing up, is smile or say something, say hello. I was never allowed into another person's house without saying hello first to everyone who was in it. So that's just how I was raised.

[00:27:12] Kate: I don't know if you even feel comfortable speaking on this, but I have spoken to other cast members of reality shows, and there's been many scandals that are starting to come out in terms of mistreatment on sets. And that's not just with reality shows. There's been a lot of documentaries about actors being mistreated as children and adults.

[00:27:32] Did you find that you guys were treated appropriately? Labor laws weren't being violated. You probably can't call it out. I'm sure you signed some paperwork. But did you have a, I guess, healthy experience while being on a reality show?

[00:27:47] Andrew: I had super healthy experience. I loved everyone I worked with. At the end of the day, if your edit doesn't go your way, it's a television show at the same time, and you did say those things. So I always say the eye in the sky never lies, and that's film. I bring it back to football, and what you put out there is there.

[00:28:05] No one made you say the things that you said. Maybe they could be taken out of context, but you said them. So if they're about someone else, that's on you. I always try to keep my business to myself. Don't be nosy. That's another thing that as a Midwest thing, we don't really like to be in too many people's business, and we keep to ourselves.

[00:28:28] But yeah, I have a lot of love for Bachelor Nation and the producers. They treated me super. I think it goes for a lot of people in the cast, would say the same thing. Obviously, sometimes you might get a bad edit, and that's what happens. That's just what they thought was the best television to make.

[00:28:44] Kate: Speaking of bad edits, I stopped watching TV somewhat recently, but you were also on Bachelor in Paradise, correct?

[00:28:51] Andrew: Oh, yeah. Agreed. That was a bad edit too.

[00:28:54] Kate: You're right. The alcohol, what is going on there?

[00:29:01] Andrew: That's what it was. It's what it is. It's what it is. It's too much alcohol. It's 105 degrees. You sleep outside pretty much. You're just hot all day. You can't get pretty, and you got to go and talk to a girl you like that may not even like you. That was the worst episode I've ever done.

[00:29:21] I'd do it over again because this is where when I talk about when you try to be something you're not, I did that. I tried to. I thought I had it all planned, that I had skiing down. I got this whole thing planned out. I'm going to do this. I'm going to get this girl. We're going to be this major Bachelor Nation couple. I'm going to be making money. That's what I went in with. And it blew up right in my face.

[00:29:46] And then I think that's just a sign from God. It's like, humble yourself. And I got humbled on that beach. And I remember it, and I was there resetting away. I was so mad at myself for letting myself get to that point where that's the things that I was doing. So yeah, Paradise is tough for me.

[00:30:07] Everyone was crying. I cried so many times. I'm an emotional guy. But I just went to go see It Ends with Us last night, movie with Blake Lively. Ended up tearing up in there. So I'm a very emotional guy, but it only started after the Bachelor though. I didn't cry before the Bachelor.

[00:30:26] Before the Bachelor, I was tough, macho, macho football guy. After, man, I completely was in tune with my feelings, and I don't care about crying anymore. I always tell my friends too like, "Go ahead and cry. It's all right, man."

[00:30:41] Kate: So it opened you up. The whole reason I created this show is to ask questions and go deeper and to talk about things that can really open us up, not just our minds, but our hearts, and to really get people to feel deeply in a meaningful way, or maybe feel at all for the first time. And so it speaks to how you went about your life and you just stayed focused on your goals, football, and try to put some of that other pain and distractions out of your mind.

[00:31:09] Andrew: Oh, yeah.

[00:31:10] Kate: But it is that lesson that at some point, whether we like it or not, it's going to come out.

[00:31:15] Andrew: It's going to come out. Yeah. And I was blessed it happened on the show and not somewhere else or with someone. And you don't know how that emotion is going to come out. It could be in so many different shapes or forms, and that happens to a lot of people in the world.

[00:31:29] And that's why believe in therapists. I don't have one because I feel like I've been enough and I cry enough. And I'm not ashamed to admit my faults and admit things that are going on in my life. So yeah, I can do it, but it's expensive.

[00:31:48] But I hope everyone else, they need to get therapy. Definitely do that. I'm a huge advocate for that. I know a lot of my friends are in it and that they do really well. They love it, and that's changed their life. So I agree. I think at some point in life, it's got to come out, and it's whether you want to control it or it comes out random. I got blessed, and it came out at a time where I was at a show.

[00:32:16] Like I said, I was in an interview. And that's when I knew right away I had just deeper feelings for things that I was pushing away because I was distracted with sports. That was every single day. Every year was the same thing, train, train, train, train, train, game day, game week, game week for 24 years straight. Just doing the same, same routine that it gets blocked back.

[00:32:40] You don't really think about it. And those are a lot of distractions. A lot of people don't have distractions. A lot of people have a lot of free time, and they just have these feelings, and they can't get them out. And they do distracting things because that's the only way they can show it. You know what I mean? So not a therapist by any means, but I feel like go talk to someone before something comes out when you're not planning for it. And then it's a detriment to you.

[00:33:08] Kate: Yeah. And you can see why so many of us do want to stuff down, whether it's food, drinking, drugs, shopping, pornography, whatever people do to suppress and numb the pain. But that it'll eventually come out. And it can be really uncomfortable to look at difficult truths about ourselves and others, but that it's also such a gift and so liberating when we're actually able to feel the depths of our pain and feel our feelings. Maybe people who are a little scared, can you just let them in on it's not as scary as you think and that you can talk through it and there are people to work through these uncomfortable feelings with you?

[00:33:48] Andrew: Yeah. I want to talk to the men, especially because that's a tough thing for us. I've had some of my friends who've had some passings, and I'm just like, "Man. Cry, bro. It's okay. It's totally okay." And you see them weeping, and they start. They finally let go because they had to be macho, macho in front of their friends.

[00:34:14] And growing up, everyone would make fun of you for trying. But no, I think also being a good friend is allowing a space for your friends to be vulnerable. And I think all my friends from the Bachelor, like Greg and Justin, Mike Planeta, we have no shame in telling how we feel.

[00:34:38] My back home friends who I'm starting to work on and try to make sure that they understand because the Bachelor, like I said, you talk, you talk. That's what you do. You're going to be on there talking. And you're talking about how you feel about today, about meeting Katie today or meeting her tomorrow.

[00:34:53] Even those little talks, are you opening up talking about how you're feeling and stuff? So A plus job by the Bachelor just in how they do things. And just reality shows in general. I feel like you hear a lot of good things that come and inspires people to just be able to open up to their partners and have uncomfortable conversations as well.

[00:35:15] Kate: It really is the power of truth, storytelling, and wellness through truth and storytelling, which is this show. And you're right. You were forced to do it because you put away all the distractions. No phone, no TV. I didn't even know no music, no radio. You were sitting around talking, which is so beautiful. So you actually got to even check in with, well, how do I feel about this thing, or what do you think?

[00:35:42] Andrew: And you do interviews every two hours. So you're really getting therapy session every two hours. And they ask them some really good questions, so that was good. I am a huge fan of that.

[00:35:58] Kate: You made a comment earlier, and this is another thing that's been top of mind for me. And John Legend spoke about it recently at a concert that I went to that was so brilliant. And he said something to the effect of he was a self-proclaimed nerd thrust into this working relationship with Hip Hop stars.

[00:36:15] None of them were stars yet, but Lauren Hill and Kanye West. And then he's like, I come-- he's Midwest from Ohio, the town over from me, and he comes from nothing. And then he's at this Ivy league school, University of Pennsylvania. And so always trying to fit in where maybe he didn't, but he said, "I've realized that being cool is the ability to be yourself in any situation."

[00:36:38] And you just spoke to that too, because that's how the universe works. And I have goosebumps right now. So for those of us who don't fully know, and you don't have to give details, but you had that whole plan on Bachelor in Paradise, and it ended up blowing in your face because you weren't being yourself. You were trying to be somebody else. Can you just walk us through that experience a little bit, what you did, however much you want to share that just did not work and does not hurt?

[00:37:04] Andrew: Yeah. I think thinking steps ahead can get you in trouble. I think the biggest thing for me, I was thinking 16 steps ahead. I never even consulted the girl and how she might be feeling. You know what I mean? I'm just thinking, oh, yeah, we're going to get engaged, and this is how we're going to do it.

[00:37:20] And that's before we even met. And obviously, you like to put that image in your head of what the life is going to look like. That's one thing, but I think when you start doing that, you start doing things that are not genuine.

[00:37:35] And as soon as I'm not genuine, I look like a fool. I'm out of place. And I think that's what happened to me. I lost my cool because I wasn't being myself. I was trying to do something to appease to the crowd. It wasn't naturally for my fulfillment or for her fulfillment. It felt more of a stage than hit myself.

[00:38:03] Kate: For people who-- there's that advice of just be yourself, and I think a lot of people struggle with that because they have no idea who they are, especially independent of a title like accountant or sister.

[00:38:17] Andrew: And just in this day and world where everyone wants to be someone else and be this copycat. Oh, this person does really well on TikTok. I want to be this person. So it's extremely tough to know who you are, and it's extremely scary to just show who you are, and the fact of not being liked is terrifying.

[00:38:36] So obviously that's one of the things that I'm excited to go through with my future kids, is that right there. Whatever it is, we're going to figure it out. We're going to figure it out being genuine and being yourself. Because if you go down a path of trying to be someone else, you might at least lose out on what's really meant for you. Yeah, sorry. I love talking about my children that I don't have.

[00:39:02] Kate: I think that's so beautiful. So where do we stand in terms of a bromance that could lead to fatherhood?

[00:39:11] Andrew: Not close. I actually just got done with a breakup not long ago, like three days ago, actually.

[00:39:16] Kate: I'm so sorry.

[00:39:17] Andrew: It's okay.

[00:39:18] Kate: Aw. What did you learn from that?

[00:39:22] Andrew: Absolutely nothing. I'm still on the drawing board right now. I'm trying to figure out what went wrong. You just go through and do trial and error. You're going to fail, but it's not the end. You just got to keep having hope and faith that that person's out there. It's tough and tougher though. Obviously with social media you don't know who's actually for you with fame or whatever the case may be.

[00:39:49] You don't want to meet someone online. I don't want to meet someone online. Powerful love, a good love story. So at the same time, it's on me. I'm very picky, but I think it's all you got in life. You got this one moment. You got this one person, hopefully for the rest of your life.

[00:40:08] Kate: When you think of that dream partnership, what comes to mind? Who is she? How is she acting? What are you all doing together?

[00:40:18] Andrew: So the thing is I think everyone wants to be the same person. I don't want to be the same person. I just want to enjoy the company of that person. They could not be funny, and I could be extremely funny. Well, I think I am pretty funny. But I can be extremely funny. It's a good source of yin and yang. Where can you make up your 50 where I can make up my 50 to make our whole 100?

[00:40:42] I think that's important. Obviously, you want someone that gives you a burning passion of love. You want to look at them and just can't believe that this person's in your life. That kind of feeling where if you imagine they're not with you, it hurts. You know what I mean?

[00:41:02] Hurts to breathe like you got an asthma. So those are the moments where I look at someone or feel like I'm in a relationship where I look for-- it's like that ultimate spark where it's an unconditional love where it doesn't matter if down the road looks bad or whatever the case would be, but you just have this ultimate feeling of this person. So that's basically what I'm looking for.

[00:41:23] Kate: That's beautiful. How will that person make you feel? People say we know when it's that person, but how will you feel where you're like, "Oh, this feels safe?"

[00:41:34] Andrew: I don't like the word safe because I want to love to be reckless. I want it to be a raging fire, but we're both raging. So I wouldn't say safe, but I just want to see her flames for me. And I want to continue. So I'm going to show her my flames as well so that we're both still fueling fire together. I think that's basically what I want to feel, like that model where you don't even have to worry about anything. You just know that person thinks the world of you. That's a feeling I want to stay in forever.

[00:42:09] Kate: Aw, Oh, that's beautiful.

[00:42:11] Andrew: I feel like, like I said, I think we're very good at reading energy. I'm extremely good. And I know when there's bad energy. I know when someone's mad at me. I can tell the mood shift in every situation. I won't say anything, but I can read it. And I'll just be like, "Okay, you got to tell me. If you're feeling something, you got to let me know. I'm not going to go on like, hey, what's wrong? Because I believe that's wrong. I feel like communicate with me that you're feeling some type of way. So I can tell when we are doing well. I can tell when we're not.

[00:42:42] I can deal with being mad. Being able to argue with someone is not like a downfall. I love to be able to argue with-- but it's, how are we fixing it is my main priority. How do we get past it? How do we do this together? But arguments are going to happen. Not mad if we argue a lot. If we argue lot, that's fine, but how are we resolving is more important. And it's very tough to find.

[00:43:04] Kate: Let's reframe that. How about it's maybe tough for other people, but for me, it's-- I think it's so important that we reframe and keep a perspective and even struck down the street, even if we got to fake it so we make it a little bit. But it's so easy for me to find a partner. I think that has helped me.

[00:43:21] And sometimes then you're like, screw this. Those thoughts aren't working. But I think if we start to embody that, in divine timing, the perfect partner for me will show up. And they're not perfect because they say everything I want them to say or do everything I want them to do. But it really is someone who can not only meet us at our level but take us higher and make us better.

[00:43:40] Andrew: Absolutely. But then I also have a flaw where I feel like I self-sabotage. I think that's a huge thing in today's world because everyone's been hurt, and you've seen the flags or seen the signs, and you're just like, "Am I doing too much? Are they going to back out?"

[00:43:57] How can I lessen this blow from this breakout? I think about that all the time. Can I lessen the blow? Can I make sure I don't get crushed? Because I've had some breakups where I've just been absolutely like can't even look at another girl for three four months. Just super depressed. That's the type of love that 'I've been in. And you want to love that hard, but you don't want to have that breakup that hard.

[00:44:25] So you think things are going bad you like, oh, well, here it comes. Let me just tail off. Here he comes. You know what I mean? Trying to lessen the blow. So I think that's also a bad thing that I do that I need to fix.

[00:44:40] Kate: I saw this saying and it reminded me of my 20s and most of my 30s. I'm paraphrasing, but the love that we've always been searching for is the love we didn't have for ourselves.

[00:44:55] Andrew: Hmm. I don't know. I love myself.

[00:45:06] Kate: I'm with you.

[00:45:08] Andrew: I don't know. I don't know because I do want someone to love me, I'm not going to say as much as I love myself, but I just want a really strong love for myself because I know how much I can love someone else. And that's my thing. It's like I want it reciprocated. That is all. And it's scary when you don't get it reciprocated and you're all the way up here and they're just here.

[00:45:33] You're never going to meet where you want to meet. That freaks me out. Because that just feels like I'm setting myself up for heartbreak. I don't know about the love I'm seeking that I didn't talk about myself. I guess I'm very confident, cocky. Yeah. But I can acknowledge it. It could apply to a lot of people, but not to me.

[00:45:54] Kate: Or maybe even subconsciously, I'll even speak for myself, sometimes it's the love that we didn't get from a caregiver. And not because they're bad people, but they simply weren't willing or able to love us in a way where we felt emotionally seen, where we felt emotionally nurtured.

[00:46:13] Sometimes we don't even realize the hole that we have in our hearts, that we're looking for someone else to fill, and we haven't filled it ourselves yet. And so just something for anyone who's listening to reflect on. And ladies, please don't come for Andrew unless you are ready, you're loved up, and you're ready to love really hard. Thank you.

[00:46:33] Andrew: Yeah.

[00:46:35] Kate: Leave him alone, unless you're mad at me.

[00:46:38] Andrew: Seriously, don't play with my heart anymore. I can't take it anymore.

[00:46:44] Kate: Oh my gosh, you're adorable. I'm going to find a connect and get you some really quality, highly vetted, affordable therapy. So to be continued. We're going to talk about that. And I'd love to be able to offer that to all of my guests and anyone who's listening who would like that.

[00:47:01] A final thought. You've had so many deep, extraordinary experiences still in your first two, three decades. I know you're very intuitive like me, which I appreciate. Any final intuitive message that you would like to share with our listeners that could maybe help them based on what you've been through?

[00:47:24] Andrew: Yeah. I said it earlier. It's just never panic. Don't panic. You survived 100% of your worst days. So just keep going. It's always brighter at the end of the tunnel. I think when I say don't panic, it just means don't make a bad situation worse.

[00:47:41] So whenever you're in a rut, don't, oh, let me put alcohol on top of it. Well, now you're making a bad situation worse. You're panicking. Or I can't find my keys and you start yelling at a partner or someone else. You're making a bad situation worse. So I believe when you panic, other things start to happen that are bad.

[00:48:01] Just relax, take a breath, and just understand that it's going to be okay. You know what I mean? It's not too much to get worked up about it. It's going to help yourself feel better. It's going to help everyone around you feel better, especially in relationships. I think a lot of my friends love the fact that I am that way.

[00:48:17] It could be the middle of the ocean. [Inaudible], well, hey, at least we got a life raft. It's one of those always looking optimistic thing for me. I think that's important, especially for someone to be like that in the friends group.

[00:48:32] Kate: I love that. Andrew Spencer, you are so worthy of an extraordinary love, and I can't wait for it to find you because I know you will offer that back. And please invite me to your wedding because I'll be like, remember that moment?

[00:48:44] Andrew: I will.

[00:48:45] Kate: So I'm declaring my lips to God's ear. I'm declaring it for both of us. I'm excited for both of us, and I don't want a wedding. I'm going to elope, but I'll invite you to my party when I come back to the States from my Italian wedding.

[00:48:55] Andrew: Either way works for me.

[00:48:58] Kate: I'm excited for us. I'm going to remember this moment. And it's sooner than we think. So I'm holding space for that.

[00:49:03] Andrew: Yes. Let's manifest that.

[00:49:04] Kate: I'm going to do in part of my visualization. I can't wait to invite Andrew to the party, my wedding party.

[00:49:10] Andrew: Awesome. Can't wait to be there.

[00:49:12] Kate: We're going to speed it up. Thank you so much for being here. I appreciate you and your heart so much. You're such a beautiful person, and I just wish you nothing but the best. So thank you so much.

[00:49:23] Andrew: Thank you so much. Thanks for having me.

[00:49:24] Kate: Absolutely. And thank you for joining us. I'm sure you had just as much fun as we did. We'll see you next time right here on Rawish with Kate Eckman. Bye, everybody.