Kevin Carroll on Finding Your Red Rubber Ball, Reframing Self-Talk, and Embracing Play

[00:00:01] Kevin: I do think there's something about not being afraid of hard work, not being afraid of having to deal with some difficult, not being afraid of being challenged. I think that I'm unafraid of that. It started very early in my life, right where I got challenged. So I'm up for it. Let's go. Let's dance. I'm about it. Let's figure it out.

[00:00:24] I always tell that to the young people. I always say, don't cheat us of your gifts. Don't cheat us. We deserve to meet all your gifts, not a portion of them, all of them. So get out the way. Energy never lies. Energy never lies. People will rally around your energy. But if you bring some stank energy, don't nobody want nothing to do with you.

[00:01:01] Kate: Hey, there. Welcome back to Rawish with Kate Eckman. It's a really special episode today. I'm joined with somebody that I met about three years ago. We were both speaking at A-Rod summit out in Arizona, and his speech, woo. It blew me away. I've never heard anything like it. His story is so compelling. His delivery was so compelling, and he's just such an extraordinary human who I know is going to inspire you so much through his personal story, his incredible talent in storytelling. So without further ado, Kevin Carroll.

[00:01:39] Kevin: I love it.

[00:01:40] Kate: Kevin Katalyst, that's your new name.

[00:01:42] Kevin: I love it. It's great. It's so good to be reconnected with you, and I can't even tell you that's like-- our vibe and our energy exchange is so real, and I enjoy you, and I enjoy your energy, and I enjoy what you represent. So it's wonderful to be around you.

[00:02:00] Kate: Oh my gosh. It's electric. Even you just got on here and my whole energy just lit up. And I was saying to you, it is so important that we team up with people when you get on a Zoom with them or wherever you're getting on and you feel lit up. And part of the reason I feel so lit up is because I trust you. And you're going to come as you would say, like same guy every day, just show up. You're so solid, and it is a practice.

[00:02:25] And what I'm really excited to talk about today for everyone to hear is you do something about play and that play is a superpower. And as you would say, it's serious business. And how important this is for our livelihood, for our creativity, for our positivity. What do you mean by that? And how did that come about before we even get into your origin story?

[00:02:46] Kevin: I really think it's interesting. I've been harping on this idea of condulting recently. So the kid and the adult collide, condulting. And so I've been having these conversations with business leaders, CIOs, CISOs, all these different people, accounting people, consultants, all these people, and talking about play.

[00:03:06] And we've been actually doing play workshops. And what I've been doing is challenging them to hearken back to their childlike self and giving them the science behind why play matters and why play is important. And so we keep demanding of you more innovation, more creativity, better problem solving, more ingenuity, surprise and delight. problem solving ability, coming with this confidence all the time, but we're not preparing you for it.

[00:03:33] And so the way that we need to prepare you is you need to be actively exercising, if you will, your play muscle, your creative muscle. And so look at having an avocation, a hobby, something that brings you joy and doing it on a regular basis actually is working the synapses of play in your brain, which allow you to show up with creative confidence when you're dealing with a difficult situation or a challenge or something that might be unique or different in your normal world.

[00:04:02] And lo and behold, you're so fired up now because let's go, let's bring it on because I've got this level of confidence and I'm much better, much more equipped and more confident as it relates to creativity, problem solving, astral thinking, ingenuity, all those things, because I actively exercise my curiosity.

[00:04:22] Kate: Love that.

[00:04:22] Kevin: And it's really important. That's the thing that most of us stop doing, is being curious. What is the thing that children are? They're curious because they're putting information on the greatest thing ever, their hard drive, their brain. Every day. So why don't we keep doing that? I always say this to the adults in the room, "We're the greatest app ever created."

[00:04:47] There is no app greater than us. So why are we so quick to update when we're prompted on our phone or computer, an app, hey, update me, update me? Well, why aren't you updating yourself? And so we should stay in beta just like the apps on our device and on our computer, always updating squash and bugs, making fixes.

[00:05:07] Kate: That's so important, and I do notice that as an adult everyone takes themselves so seriously. And as I like to say, when we take our lives seriously, we take ourselves a lot less seriously. And this idea of play, even for kids, is being thrown out the window. It's like, you need to write these papers. You can get into this school and get on this society and impress these people.

[00:05:31] It's obnoxious. I look at my niece and nephew and it's just like I was so overbooked, so over schedule. The private schools, the sports, and all the things. And it's great. We want our kids to go on and achieve, but we can be successful and more successful by tapping into this idea of creativity and play, regardless of how old we are.

[00:05:51] Kevin: Well, when we talk about growth mindset, Carol Dweck, who wrote Growth Mindset, the book, she talks about curiosity is at the root of a growth mindset. And so the more that we start to understand the importance of just being forever curious spirits, looking up once in a while, shifting your gauge, changing your perspective, I think all those things will serve you well throughout your entire life.

[00:06:16] And so I truly know that about myself, that I'm a forever curious spirit, but also to practice it, I have one day out of the week where I spend more time looking up literally. I call it my lookup day. And I try to discover something new throughout the day. And I'll note it in my head. Maybe I'll put it on my phone, but I'll just try to actively practice curiosity with a lookup day.

[00:06:40] So shifting your gaze literally, changing your perspective, looking at things differently with that childlike wonder, that excitement, that there's all kinds of things available to you. And if we're like this all the time in the adult posture, head down, not paying attention, we could be passing by all these wonderful offers that could spark us, that could inspire us, that could allow us to actually have the confidence we need to solve that problem, that issue, that thing you're facing that may feel daunting, but maybe it's not as daunting as you think.

[00:07:12] Kate:  I'm just taking all of that in and letting it land. That was really beautiful. Before you were one of the most requested speakers in the country or world, before you were hired by the big guys, like ESPN, Disney, Nike, to help them, these billion-dollar brands with their creativity and their play and their positivity and their productivity, you were just a little boy on a bus. Oh, this story is-- I just got the chills. What can you tell us about little Kevin on the bus?

[00:07:46] Kevin: I look at myself now, 66 years young, and so I always think about my six-year-old self. This is 60 years ago when this happened. And both my parents were addicts. They abandoned us. My mom left me and my brothers in a situation. We were hundreds of miles away from Philadelphia where we were spending most of our time, and she had left us in a trailer and it had been several days had went by. I was only six.

[00:08:10] My older brother was eight. My little brother was three. And we weren't in school. We had been going to school for a few weeks, and so I knew school was a safe place. I knew school was a nurturing place. And I just was insistent we should be back in school. So I kept really trying to get my older brother to do something, but he was overwhelmed by the whole situation of being in this trailer and not knowing where we are.

[00:08:34] And so I just got a little ornery, like a kid might do, and I said, " I'm telling on mommy." And my brother said, "What do you mean?" I said, "Let's leave. Let's find help." And so we left the trailer and we found another trailer. And the woman in that trailer who I never ever got her name or anything, I explained the situation to her and she called my grandparents in Philadelphia because my grandparents had taught us their phone number.

[00:08:57] They had made us memorize their phone number. And they said, if you ever get in trouble, tell someone the number and have them call us. So this is some old school stuff, but it was really useful for us to know the phone number. And she dialed the number and I told my grandfather what was going on and he said, it's too far.

[00:09:15] We can't come get you boys. Can I speak to the woman to have a brief conversation? And my grandfather asked her to take us to the bus station. This is in the late 1960s, and we were in the South. And we didn't realize that we were in the middle of turbulent, tumultuous times here in the United States and that we were basically in danger as three little African American boys in the South alone.

[00:09:38] And this woman, a stranger, took us to the bus station and found the bus driver going back to Philadelphia and explained our situation. We had no parents or money, only a promise that my grandparents would be waiting at the bus station in downtown Philadelphia for us.

[00:09:51] Kate: Wow.

[00:09:52] Kevin: And she found the bus driver. The bus driver was white. That's the one thing I remember about him. And he agreed to put us on the bus. And he watched over us and got us back to Philadelphia. My grandparents were waiting for us, and they basically decided my mom was not getting us back. And my father was already out of the picture. He had left when I was three.

[00:10:11] And they were going to raise us as best they could. And my grandfather was a very loving but very practical man, and he said, "Listen, we're going to give you food to eat and a roof over your heads, but you boys are going to have to basically raise yourselves." So imagine hearing that at six years old. And my response was, "Papa, can I go play? Isn't there a playground near your house?" And he goes, "Yeah, right up the street." I just want to go up there. I bet there'll be lots of kids I need to run.

[00:10:39] And that started my relationship with sports and this group of boys and my love of being on teams, and it unlocked so many things that no one could have ever predicted, but I always harken back to that decision and it really was actually out of practicality. It wasn't some like, oh, I'm thinking about playing sports. I'm going to be in the pros. It was nothing like that. It's like, I just need to run. It was my solution to dealing with stress, was my way as a child. I think if I can just get my wiggles out, if I can run a little bit, then I'm going to be okay.

[00:11:14] I can manage whatever this is. I don't know what this is. I just know that something different is happening to me. And we're with our grandparents and we're not going to be with my mom. And so that was really the way that I approached it. And I went up to the playground and my life completely changed because of that decision.

[00:11:32] And that playground became my saving grace and my first safe place. And the group of boys up there and the crazy eclectic group of people up there from drug dealers to users or veterans and workers, other kids, parents, custodians, it was a crazy destination in our neighborhood and everybody knew our story.

[00:11:51] And I always say I'm a mosaic of all those people who poured into me, good stuff, bad stuff, indifferent stuff. Whatever it was, I have all that in me, and I'm so grateful to all those people, because I wouldn't be here right now. I know. I could have easily been a stat. No one would have thought anything. Well, look what you came from. Look how bad that was. Of course, you're going to be someone who struggles the rest of your life.

[00:12:11] And social workers would tell my grandparents that. They would literally tell my grandparents, "Don't expect much. Look what they come from." And that's where I got an attitude, I'll show you. I'll show you. So  six-year-old me is always on the stage with me in front of audiences. And I'm always trying to find my way to honor that little boy that found a way to rise above suffering and circumstances and not let circumstances dictate his destiny.

[00:12:43] Kate: I can see that  six-year-old little boy in you right now. The smile on your face. And he's helped you age very well, my friend. [Inaudible] your age.

[00:12:52] Kevin: Good lotion regiment. Yeah. Brown don't break down, girl.

[00:12:57] Kate:  I'm just like, we need to have you back for some skincare and beauty tips.

[00:13:02] Kevin: I know. I got this forever young lotion line I'm working on right now.

[00:13:07] Kate: I see that  six-year-old in you. And what stands out is back then your creativity and your intuition, which is such an asset, both as a child and as an adult, it essentially kept you alive there. And you even talked about your brother, and no shame to him, but he was overwhelmed and rightfully so.

[00:13:26] And you were in that, okay, we've got a problem. Let's solve it. And you solved it with creativity and intuition. You took action. It's all these steps we hear as adults to be successful in business and in life. And so part of what you talked about at A-Rod summit that I will-- so many things you said that will stay with me forever, but it was this, the red rubber ball. And asking all of us, what's our red rubber ball? So can you tell us how that whole story was born and how we can all really honor and embrace our own red rubber ball?

[00:14:00] Kevin: Yeah. The red rubber ball, it's literal for me, but for others, it's a metaphor. So what are you chasing? So I was literally at the playground, discovered a playground ball, and so that became this thing I would chase. And so it represents this community. It represents this connection.

[00:14:18] It represents teams and my love of sports. And I fell in love figuratively and literally with a ball. And the reason was because it allowed me to connect. It allowed me to connect with a community unconditionally. No one asked, "Where's your mom at? Where's your dad at?" They saw that I was a fast kid, right?

[00:14:37] In fact, my nickname was little fast kid in my neighborhood. So LFK kid, any variation, but that's my nickname. Still to this day, if I go home, I've got like probably five different nicknames at home, but little fast is one of them that they'll call me and stuff. The ball is sports to me, but I always ask the audience, what's your red rubber ball? What are you chasing? What gets you out of bed in the morning? Because if you don't have something that gets you out of bed in the morning, you'll stay, you will stay in bed.

[00:15:05] And so you have to have something that prompts you to get up and chase it. What are you pursuing? Art, music, dance, science, math, whatever it might be. But it's literally the thing you're chasing. And so the red rubber ball is whatever it is for you that you're chasing on a daily basis. Mine just happened to be sports. And then that unlocked other things, my love of learning, books, and my love of words, all these different things that came of sports.

[00:15:33] Because I started to understand, well, I can't play sports if I don't have my books together. So there is no ball without books. And so I started to understand I had to have good grades. And so I fell in love with school and words. In fact, a thesaurus unlocked my education, my love of learning. And that was my third-grade teacher, Ms. Rock. I will never, ever forget her because I got so upset that people would call me short, and I didn't like that word.

[00:15:58] And so I came in a little miffed after recess. I said, "Ms. Rock, I don't like this word short. They keep calling me short." She goes, "You need a new word." I said, "How do you do that?" She said, "Look at this." And she brought a thesaurus out. It blew my mind. She said, "It's a book filled with words, Kevin." And she leafed through and said, "How about this word instead of short, diminutive?" I'm like, "Yeah." She goes, "From this point on, Kevin, if anyone dares call you short, you push back and you say, I'm not short. I'm diminutive."

[00:16:28] So I'm third grader. I'm dropping diminutive cacophony, bedlam, pugilistic. Literally, I had this crazy-- just at my disposal, words. And kids would notice that about me, but it unlocked my love of learning. And so I just go back to the red rubber ball is whatever inspires you to get out of bed in the morning and chase it.

[00:16:54] Kate: Mm, thank you for that. I have to ask you though, and maybe you were, but how are you not filled with fear, anger, sadness, grief, rage, disappointment? And if you were at times, how did you manage that so well as a  six-year-old and just be thrown into this whole new world? How do you deal with some of those really challenging emotions that had to eventually come up?

[00:17:20] Kevin: What's interesting, I think about what were some of the angels and some of the individuals or some of the moments that were part of me learning how to navigate and deal with the situation, which was a really challenging situation. We went to church on a regular basis, but we split churches. So we would go to Episcopal church and Baptist church. So they called us Baptopalians.

[00:17:45] Kate: Your [Inaudible]

[00:17:47] Kevin: My grandfather was Baptist and my grandmother was Episcopalian. So every other Sunday, but I also had my Nana Carol, who was my great grandmother. And my Nana Carol was this wide, sage, brilliant-- and she taught us things that were really valuable. She taught me mindfulness before it was even a word or a term.

[00:18:08] We had to be still for five minutes before we were allowed to go out and play in the neighborhood when we would go there every Sunday. I hated sitting still. I thought Nana Carol was the meanest person ever. Kate, she would always make sure I was right next to her, always.

[00:18:31] My brothers would be out outside, and I had the most wiggles, so she knew that. And you need to be right here. And I'm like, Nana Carol, why do we have to sit still? And she said, "And that'll be another 30 seconds for you." So I would, but-- and then when I would settle down, she said, "When you settle down, you can actually see with your ears."

[00:18:59] Kate: Ooh.

[00:19:00] Kevin: You can see with your ears. Because you're listening so clearly. You're so present. And I started to be able to hear the laughter and squeaks and sounds on the street and all that. And so Nana Carol was brilliant in teaching me to be where my feet are, to be present on purpose. I have all these terms now, but I understand what she was doing. Took me years to understand what she was actually teaching me. She was teaching me a mindfulness practice.

[00:19:32] Kate: Way before it was a thing. 

[00:19:36] Kevin: Way before it was a thing. And I mentioned to you that I'm back in school getting my second graduate degree in sports psychology. So I've been learning more about emotion regulation, being present, attentional focus, all these things that allow you being able to manage your stress, energy, all these things that I'm learning.

[00:19:54] Being present, why that's important. I'm learning all this from a science standpoint, but I'm like, Nana Carol was on something. She got it. And so I think that was a big part of learning how to go within early. But I also had this amazing group of people who surrounded me and supported me and protected me and were so loving and unconditional, from pastor at church to my best friend's mom, Ms. Lane. I always actually keep her nearby. Any time I'm speaking, this is me and Ms. Lane.

[00:20:27] Kate: Aw.

[00:20:28] Kevin: So Ms. Lane is my best friend's mom. Ms. Lane, I would always call my CEO, my chief encouragement officer of my hopes, my dreams, my aspirations, my goal. Ms. Lane was the person who taught me how to navigate all my challenges, all my difficulties. Ms. Lane was the person who would take me and basically suggest, "You should go to counseling. I think it would be very helpful for you." So I started going to counseling in my teen years. Ms. Lane was that person.

[00:20:52] So I had this person around me who was guiding me, lovingly shoving me towards my destiny. Ms. Lane understood. She was peeking around the corner of my life. She saw something in me before I even understood. And so I always tell everyone, we all have a Ms. Lane in our life, someone who wanted nothing but the best for you.

[00:21:13] Mr. Rogers actually talked about that in his documentary, that everyone has someone in their life who wants nothing but the best for you. Everybody does. And Ms. Lane was that person for me. So she poured into me wisdom and insight, laughter, notions, challenging me, and all these things.

[00:21:32] And Ms. Lane was famous for, if you came with a question, look it up. So this is when you had to go with an encyclopedias or go to the public library and I had to come back with an answer. But imagine meeting someone when you're nine. I met Ms. Lane when I was nine. We had a 46 year long friendship. I never lost touch with her. Never lost touch with her. Yeah.

[00:21:55] Ms. Lane passed away 12 years ago. We never lost touch. Never. And I talked about that all the time with her daughter, Melanie. I said, "Melanie, you've known me since I was nine. You've known me 56 years. How crazy is that?" She says, "I know." So I was really intentional about relationship building and connections.

[00:22:19] I was not transactional with people. I always wanted to be transformational with you. And my mindset was this, Kate, if you shine, I shine. How can I help you? How can I help you? Because at some point, you could be on your come up. You could be on your way to something special, and maybe, just maybe you'll remember, yo, I wonder what KC's up to. Let me hit him and see, I'm going to do something real special. I'd like to bring my guy on.

[00:22:45] Kate: Yes. You'll be one of the first calls.

[00:22:47] Kevin: Right?

[00:22:48] Kate: Yes.

[00:22:48] Kevin: And not because I needed anything from you. I only wanted the best for you. And I told Ms. Lane, that would be my practice. That would be my ministry. That would be the way that I would approach life. We were talking about people who are about it, finding more people who are about it. I'm about it for you with you. Let's go. Let's build. But if you're not about it, I don't have time for you.

[00:23:08] Kate: Even I think the moment that we shared when we met, and you were about to speak. And I know as a speaker too, you need that moment. You're even a pro, but you just need that moment to decompress and get ready. And I was trying to be sneaky and turn the air conditioner way down in that room because I was not trying to sweat on stage and you caught me.

[00:23:27]  I'm like, "Oh, no." Because I didn't know you well. And instead of judging or being like, what is she doing? You were laughing hysterically. And then I'm like, okay, he gets me. And then you were laughing hysterically because you said, "My wife and I are always fighting over the thermostat."

[00:23:42] Kevin: We're on the struggle bus when it comes to the temperature in the house on the daily. It's a real thing. And we're always struggling about that, always. I would like, "God, it's so cold." I'm cold. She's hot.

[00:23:56] It's the craziest thing. Yeah. So as soon as I saw you do it, I knew exactly what was happening. It was like, "Oh my God, my wife's here. I know exactly--" And I literally like, I know what she's doing. I know exactly what she's doing.

[00:24:10] Kate: And we were both hysterically laughing, and it was probably a good just energy cleanse for you when you're about to step on stage and blow our minds, and for me I'm like, "Okay." And then I'm good when I step up on stage. And it so funny and such a beautiful, natural moments of connection because there's all sorts of energies when you're speaking, both the people on the stage and off the stage.

[00:24:31] And so just even that moment. And then when I was meditating on, I need just a prolific storyteller on my show, it was like Kevin Carroll. And I thought, yes, Kevin Carroll, and just reached out and you're here. And I'm just so thrilled to share your journey with my audience because there's so much value here and that we can follow your journey.

[00:24:49] I want to get to a lot of the psychology tips because you have so many and you are working with a huge sports team right now, but before you got to this team, you were little Kevin in Philadelphia with that journey, with the red rubber ball, and then you find yourself hired by the Philadelphia 76ers. How does that come about?

[00:25:11] Kevin: Yeah. So when I went to college, became a young dad, moved back to Philadelphia, trying to make sure that I'm not repeating history like my father and being absent, realize that I'm getting into some bad habits, being back in the neighborhood, because it's easy to fall back into habits stuff.

[00:25:28] I'm like, "You know what? I was just in college taking AP English classes and playing soccer." I said, "I got to get out of here." And so I decided to join the military. And so my uncle was in the air force and this was my whole thinking. My uncle was always smiling, so he must enjoy it. I got to find the air force.

[00:25:49] So I walked past every branch of the service and I went to the air force and I took the battery of tests, scored really well on the tests and they said, "We'd like for you to go to language school." I said, "I don't think that's a good idea because I dropped Spanish after five minutes in high school."

[00:26:06] They said, "No, we're going to send you to language school. You passed this language, aptitude test." I'm like, "Okay, whatever." And so they sent me to Monterey and I end up having a gift for languages. And I learned a bunch of languages. I speak Serbian, Croatian, Russian, German, and Czech.

[00:26:21] I was doing some black Jason Bourne stuff back in the day. Yeah. So that's all you need to know. And I kept you safe. You're welcome. Plausible deniability at this point. I can't tell you anymore. But for 10 years, I was in the Air Force from 1980 to 1990. Moved back to Philadelphia. I got my undergraduate degree in athletic training, sports medicine. Moved back to Philadelphia, worked at the high school level, the college level at St. Joe's University, and that's where the 76ers practice.

[00:26:53] So this is when NBA teams didn't have their own facilities. They used colleges, a local college. And the 76ers had used St. Joe's for years. So I would help them out during the day when my players were in class, and then I end up getting asked to interview for the job, and I get the job after only five years of being out of the military.

[00:27:13] And so I'm the first African American head athletic trainer for the 76ers, only the third in the history of the NBA, and who would have ever thought that I'm with my hometown team-- and I can remember telling people, " I'm going to be in the NBA one day," and they laugh because I was diminutive.

[00:27:30] I was short. And now that I got this gig and there's a big announcement in the newspapers there, everybody's calling for tickets, Kate. "Hey, Little Fast. What's up?" "Yo, saw you got this gig. What do you think?" No tickets for you, you, or you. Haters are my motivators. No.

[00:27:45] I remember what you said back in the day. Guess what? I'm in the league now. So that's how I ended up with the 76ers. Yes. Haters are my motivators. Be gone. Yeah. But who would have ever thought-- when I mentioned angels, I know that I've had angels surrounding me.

[00:28:10] God fearing, God believing, understanding that none of this is happening on my own. I understand I've been guided and directed. And I always say blessed and highly favored. I believe that I know that. But I pay attention to signs and symbols. So The Alchemist is my favorite book. And alchemy, and I look at human alchemy, I think that's been happening around me a lot. Because how do you go from that  six-year-old boy, now I'm on the bench with 76ers? Kobe Bryant's trainer all through high school.

[00:28:39] Kate: Oh yeah. Say more about that. That's so beautiful.

[00:28:42] Kevin: Taking care of B since he was 13. Babysat him when he was 13 because his father's from Philly, and they moved back to Philly after that he's playing in Italy and he drops his son off at summer camp with me and basically famously says, "If you could find a ball in a hoop, he'll be happy, Kevin."

[00:29:00] So I helped him out and we end up just connecting, and I take care of him all through high school, never wanting anything from him, only wanting the best for him. So I never wanted anything from him, and he never forgot that. And I got to watch him grow into, we're both in the league at the same time.

[00:29:19] Years later, I get to interview him in 2018, and we talked about our relationship on stage. Unprompted, he tells everyone, "This guy always had these crazy innovative ideas about training," and I was all about it with him. Bring it on. Let's do it. And he called them beautifully awful workouts. He said they were beautifully awful workouts.

[00:29:42] But imagine meeting someone when they're a zero trying to be a one. He wasn't special. He was just a gangly kid. And to watch him ascend and have that opportunity-- so that's my keepsake because the tragedy was just two years later.

[00:29:58] And so I've got this beautiful moment of us on stage together for 30 minutes talking and laughing, and my wife always points out. She says, "Look at him. He's that 13-year-old with you. He's not this larger than life sports idol. He's just 13 talking to you." I said, "Yeah, because I don't have an agenda with him. I don't need anything from him."

[00:30:20] And so I think that relationship, you look at these kinds of things, and who could have ever predicted any of this? But I go back to, I knew what got me out of bed in the morning. I knew what I was chasing-- a ball, book, and betterment. Because people bettered me, so how can I better others? And so that's really what it's been about.

[00:30:39] Kate: You know what I'm hearing, and I hope everyone's connecting the dots here besides the positivity and the play and the creativity and the beautifully awful workouts, which is hysterical. And I can hear him saying that, which is so funny. I'm hearing possibilities. You are a champion for possibilities. And I think sometimes we all want to make excuses. Well, I can't do this because of that. I can't do this because I don't have that resource or background, the skin color, or whatever. And you just kept beating the pavement with like, watch me, or I'll show you. And it's so inspiring. It's effortless. That's where, I think, you and Kobe really connected because it's this effortless, love and joy for the game, whatever that game is. And you don't have to try so hard because you're in it for the love of it. And yours was just learning. And then what you got from there where doors just opened.

[00:31:32] Kevin: Honestly. And I do think there's something about not being afraid of hard work, not being afraid of having to deal with some difficult, not being afraid of being challenged. I think that I'm unafraid of that. It started very early in my life, right where I got challenged. So I'm up for it.

[00:31:53] Let's go. Let's dance. I'm about it. Let's figure it out. And so I think that I've always done well with difficult. And yes, I've had challenges. Yes, I've had moments where I might sit there and go, "How's this going to work out." But wait, I can figure this out. I can find a way. I can figure this out. I can bring the right energy.

[00:32:11] Hey, you know what? I'm going to work through this. Hey, let me rally other people. They can help me too. So I know that I'm not doing this in a bubble, just me. How do I rally others? How do I build my team around me? How do I get people who are like minded, about it? And so surrounding myself-- my circle's small, but they are about it.

[00:32:30] They are mighty. The circle around me is small, but they are mighty and they are fierce. And they're similar-built, thoughtful, mindful people. And so that's what I started to understand, is that everybody's not going to approach life the way I do. I get it.

[00:32:46] But if I can model for you what is available when you are really focused on what you want to do, you're not talking out both sides of your mouth and you're consistent with it and you have a discipline about it and you bring the requisite energy every day and you just trust and believe hard work never goes unrewarded, many times it's going to be rewarded in a way you never anticipated.

[00:33:09] Look at my crazy journey. But just trust that. Trust that. But most people, they want it microwavable. They think it's instant. They think, well, how come it hasn't happened? I've shown up for three days. What the hell? You got to keep stacking. You got to keep stacking. You just have to trust and believe your hard work will never go unrewarded.

[00:33:30] And I think that's where a lot of people really will-- I can count on people quitting. And thank you very much. One less person I have to compete with. I can count on that happening. People will quit.  I'm not quitting. I'm undaunted. I'm going to continue. I'm going to keep pushing forward.

[00:33:48] And I'm all about that 1%. 1% better every day. 1% better every day. And we talk about in athletics, film don't lie. But I bring this up to people all the time. Your life film doesn't lie either. Doesn't lie either. You can grade yourself just like athletes get graded. You can grade yourself every single day, go or no go. Did I do something today to advance that hope, that dream, that aspiration, that goal. Go or no go. It's pretty simple.

[00:34:15] Kate: Yeah, I love this. Was there ever a time where you wanted to throw in the towel? And how did you overcome that? Because you are human after all, even though you are a superhero. But we all have those moments. We're both very positive, but I've had moments where you do. You want to throw your hands in the air and throw in the towel and I literally will feel the universe like, not quite, hun. Throws it back at me.

[00:34:37] Kevin: That's exactly what happens though. I think that we are human, and our self-talk is the biggest challenge. One of the things that I learned in sports psychology going back to school was how powerful our self-talk can be, how it can be debilitating or it can be uplifting.

[00:34:54] And most times it's debilitating. We can be the hardest on ourselves. But when we learn to actually reframe those negative thoughts, those negative ideas, like, oh, I'm nervous. I have to go do this presentation. Or, oh, I'm-- no. Wow, I'm excited. This is an opportunity. And if I make sure that I'm prepared, I can remain excited. If I'm under prepared, of course, I'm going to be worried.

[00:35:18] And so reframing is something that I think is really wonderful. And so I think I was doing that early. I would catch myself when I would, I don't know if this is going to work out. Or is this crazy that I think that I can do this? So move out to Portland, Oregon, leave the 76ers, work for Nike? How's that even going to work?

[00:35:38] But I had this other thing on my mind. But wait, it's allowing me to be around my boys more as a single dad. And so that's really important. So that's the win. That's the win. And so reframing. Right now I have this term, but reframing our self-talk. One of the things that I've learned also in taking these courses is that we have the most important conversations with ourselves every day.

[00:36:03] Kate: Oh, yes.

[00:36:04] Kevin: There is no conversation more important than the one we have with ourselves every single day. And so how do we speak more in an affirming, confident, loving way to ourselves and not in that debilitating, upending, bringing more problem and worry and concern and check ourselves when we do it?

[00:36:24] But I think there's the battle every day we face with ourselves. And so how do we set an intention each day? And my grandfather would always say, pay attention to your intention. Pay attention to your intention. Set an intention for the day. I'm going to be energetic, enthusiastic, engaging, whatever it might be.

[00:36:43] Plant my feet in that intention and go throughout the day thinking about that. Was I that way? Was I? And then grade yourself at the end of the day. So just like an athlete gets graded for their performance and practice and all that, my film doesn't lie either. You can grade yourself. Did I pay attention to my intention today?

[00:37:01] Go or no go. And if I did, check. If I didn't, then were some things that I can do better. And if I get another day tomorrow, Lord willing, and the creek don't rise kind of deal, I get another day. I get a chance to start again. I get a chance to start a new. I get a chance to actually stack again. And I just think that's all we can ask for each day.

[00:37:23] Kate: What attracted you to psychology to pursue this second graduate degree and work with this sports team right now?

[00:37:30] Kevin: So honestly, Kate, it was actually-- and my wife laughed when I said this.

[00:37:36] Kate: I love your wife. It sounds like we get along really well.

[00:37:39] Kevin: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. yeah, yeah. Grace is no joke. Grace is no joke. So 65th birthday was coming. Everybody wants to celebrate you, da, da, da, milestone birthday. And I'm sitting actually in my little satellite office here and I'm like, "What do I want to do for myself for my birthday?" Sitting here and I'm like, "You know what? I think I want to give knowledge to myself. Yeah."

[00:38:05] So I started searching on LinkedIn and different places for programs and I said, "I wonder all this wisdom and insights that I dole out, is there science behind it?" And so someone happened to have finished a sports psychology degree, and it was posted on LinkedIn. And I went, "Huh, what's that school?" When I went online, I went, "Huh." Started by two military veterans. National University. I get a military discount. I think I'm going to go back to school. So I go upstairs, get my DD forms and everything, and I enroll.

[00:38:46] And then I tell my wife and then she goes, "You what?" I said, " I'm going back to school and get my second graduate degree. I'm going to do it in sports psychology. I want to know the science behind these anecdotal things I share, these little insights, these simple truths that I've learned over the years. I got a feeling there's science behind it, and I'm really curious about it."

[00:39:06] She goes, "How's a professor going to professor you?" She said, " I'm really curious to see that." Oh my gosh, Kate. My relationships with my professors are hilarious because I'm the cool old head student. My papers are very different. I'm bringing in all kinds of information and deep detail. And they're just like, this is like reading.

[00:39:31] Some of my professors have actually wrote little notes after my things like, "Hey, your Nana Carol's brilliant. I tried that with my daughter and it worked." So that's what prompted me to go back to study sports psychology, which is my curiosity about the science around the simple truths, the wisdom, the anecdotes that I've learned over the years, and that I've doled out.

[00:39:55] Kate: Wow. I just feel like I want to say wow to everything that you say and then I'm laughing too because I'm like, I'm getting hot and laughing. I need to go turn the air down. And then you're talking about your wife. I'm like, we're both hot and like, what are you doing, Kevin? Oh my gosh. It's so inspiring because that's something else that our culture and society tries to do to us, is limit us based on our age. You're too old to do this. 65, shouldn't you be retired and just enjoying and on a yacht somewhere? What's wrong with you? You're like, "I think I'm going to get another graduate degree."

[00:40:25] Kevin: Real talk, I had some friends that were like, "Why would you want to go back to school? I don't understand that." I said, "Why not?"

[00:40:32] Kate: Yeah.

[00:40:33] Kevin: Why not? And it has unlocked opportunities for me. So I'm working with the Power 4 football program, my second season doing that. I'm a research affiliate at a university. I do guest lecturing at a university. All these things have happened because of me going back to school. It's unlocked a whole other chapter in my journey. And I said to my wife, "Why would I ever want to retire from something that brings me joy?"

[00:41:00] Kate: Yeah.

[00:41:00] Kevin: Why? Why would I want to do that?

[00:41:04] Kate: I feel like that's getting older, and aging is letting our minds go, letting our spirit go. And for me, we both obviously have love of learning as a top value, but I'm taking four classes right now, like a freak too. Not to sound like a geek, but I love getting on Zoom and learning from these professors.

[00:41:20] I was sobbing with my grief and loss professor yesterday in a good way. And I'm just like, "This is transforming my life in the world." And look at you at this age, not slowing down. And I think too, when you look at all the value that you can add based on your experience and now with the science in this degree and working with these kids, because a lot of these kids, as you know, they could come from a similar background to you, and they're good at sport, but then what if that doesn't work out?

[00:41:45] And just all the things that young folks are navigating right now without the tools. And to have a Kevin Carroll catalyst up in the mix, what are some of the conversations that you're having, or how are you helping? Whatever you can share about this role.

[00:41:59] Kevin: It's amazing. It really has been profound, the relationships and the connections. And what I understand is they want someone who's relatable and approachable and who can dole out wisdom unconditionally and wants nothing from them, because so many people want things from them.

[00:42:20] And so I'm that cool uncle. I'm the cool uncle that leaves for a little bit and comes back. Where have you been? What have you been doing? Oh my God. And then, hey, how have you been doing? And hey, I understand you like this. And so I'm this person who sends them a little clip of this thing.

[00:42:35] Hey, I know you're interested in this. Have you seen this website? Hey, I know you're doing this. Hey, have you seen this? And so I'm just making these offers to them all the time unconditional. I don't want anything from you. I want only the best for you. And they all know that that comes from my connection with being, as we call it, and Kobe.

[00:42:56] And so they really love the fact that here's this worldly person who comes in our midst on a regular basis and is so generous with his knowledge and wisdom and just presence. Why wouldn't we want to wrap our arms around something like that? It's like having our cool uncle around.

[00:43:16] It's like having someone who's peeking around the corner of life for us, who's giving out free game, as they like to say, and giving us a cheat code, our wayfinder. And so that's what I really reveled in. Being around them is recognizing that, yes, I'm still relatable. Yes, I'm still approachable.

[00:43:34] Yes, I still have things that they want to hear and want to learn from, but also I stay updated. Let's go back to the beta. I'm staying forever curious. I'm always updating, always improving, always staying relatable, paying attention to those things. So if I can stay current and I can stay relatable, I can keep winning.

[00:43:56] And they'll let you know. If you ain't cool, they'll let you know. Wait, but I honestly, they're not the toughest audience. The toughest audience is grade school kids because they don't have a boss. So they'll let you know. Grade school kids will let-- you're not funny. You're not good. So you better be on your game, Kate. So you want to test your metal as a speaker, go to a first grade class.

[00:44:18] Kate: I don't need feedback from men because I had a  six-year-old one time when I was out as a news reporter on a story. I was standing there and looked down and a little girl is looking up at me and she said, "You look pretty." And I'm like, "Then I'm pretty. I don't need any man or anyone else to tell me this." Because six-year-old will tell you. She could tell you, you're ugly.

[00:44:39] Kevin: No. Yeah, they will. They have zero filters, zero, zero. They got no boss. That's what I always tell people like, oh, you can tell if you're good or not if kids want to be around you. So the staff's kids is hilarious. They love me. And they're like, "I don't know what spell you put on my kids, but they're always asking about you. One of the kids use your book for show and tell."

[00:45:03] I'm like, well, because I don't want anything from them. I don't have the same history you have with them. I don't have to scold them or get them right or whatever. I'm always about joy with them. So they're always going to be feeling that with me. Yeah. So that's one of the other things which is wonderful, is it's not just the players in the building. It's also staff. Because I have no agenda. I'm not aspiring to become a head coach. I'm not aspiring to become a coordinator. I'm not aspiring to become an athletic trainer, right? I'm good where I'm at.

[00:45:39] How can I offer you as much? Or if you don't have time, let me look that up for you. Hey, I overheard you talk about that. Hey, I went and did this research for you here. Yeah, yeah, here you go. I know you were thinking about it. I know you're busy. So maybe this will prompt you to go and dive deeper into it.

[00:45:56] And so making these offers to people all the time, but that's what I learned growing up. People offered to me all the time, all the time. And Ms. Lane was probably the most prolific at it. And so I promised her that I would be the Ms. Lane 2.0. That I would be that. I would be the next version of her and I would have global access.

[00:46:18] And that was what I told her. And so it's all playing out now that my generosity of spirit and my belief in humanity and that we all have something that we should be chasing each day, I actively practice that every single day. I'm trying to help encourage people to chase their dreams.

[00:46:36] And not being, Pollyanna about or whatever. Yes, you're going to deal with some difficult-- yes, you're going to face some hurdles. Do you see obstacles or do you see opportunities though? But you're going to face some stuff. How do you reframe that self-talk? How do you reframe that doubt? How do you reframe that moment? Okay. Yeah. But was that a setback or a setup for a comeback? What was that? Was that really part of the test to see if you're really about it? Maybe it was. Oh, I'm going to throw my hands up and walk away. No, I'm going to lean back in. How do I get better?

[00:47:11] Kate: But it is the power of your words, the self-talk, but also that promise that you made to someone who changed your life. And so there is something about speaking that into existence with that intention and that power behind it. I'm so curious. I just want to hear from you. You work with all ages.

[00:47:27] But whether you're delivering a message to the kids or to all of us right now, what is a message you can deliver us in this day and age with everything going on in the world that will keep us going, that will keep us embracing that childlike nature while not getting bogged down while not giving up? Because some days we want to. We're human and the world is insane.

[00:47:51] Again, you said things to me three years. I know that's not a long time. Boom, in my heart, my soul, and my body, that will live forever. You have so many, but something that comes to mind that we can all just really take to heart right now.

[00:48:07] Kevin: There are two things. One of the coaches shared with me a Bible verse, but the headline was better is possible. And I just think that we can always be improving, always getting better. Better is possible. No matter the circumstances that we might be facing, no matter --the challenges we might be, better is possible.

[00:48:28] There's always better. There's always an opportunity to be better. And so I think that's one thing. There's a little quote that I use in presentations often, but I fully believe this, like, work for a cause, not for applause. Live life to express, not to impress. Don't strive to get your presence noticed. Just make your absence felt.

[00:48:52] Kate: Can you please say that again? Ooh, I felt that. Please say that.

[00:48:55] Kevin: Absolutely. Work for a cause, not for applause. Live life to express, not to impress. Don't strive to get your presence noticed. Just make your absence felt. And I just think that's really, how do we leave a place better than what it was? And not with any assumptions that somebody is going to do something for us or whatever. That we're just trying to be transformational.

[00:49:22] We're not trying to be transactional about it. And I just think that's the way that I go throughout. And that generosity of spirit. I just trust and believe it's always going to come back. I just do. And many times, not in the way I ever anticipated, which is the-- that's the joyful part. That's the childlike wonder part. You just get giddy and you just giggle to yourself like, well, look at that happen. I never anticipated that.

[00:49:46] Kate: When you really stop and think about that  six-year-old who was left alone in a trailer with two young siblings, parents are both drug addicts. You could have been terrified, scared, gone on to be a drug addict yourself, and none of us would have judged and be like, makes sense. But to go from even that to then having one of the greatest, most beloved athletes of all time just hand delivered to you on a playground, like, "Hey, please keep Kobe Bryant entertained and give him some beautiful, awful workouts."

[00:50:17] Even that's one thing, but there's a million other things that you've done in your career. Think of all the people that would have tried to be strategic or try to land anything with Kobe Bryant, whether he was famous yet or not. And that it's such a testament that getting your instrument, fine tuning your instrument. So you're just a match for Kobe Bryant to show up as a client for you just to "fall" into all these opportunities, but you didn't just fall into them. You became the person who was a perfect energetic match for all of it. It's beautiful to see it physically played out.

[00:50:52] You hear these concepts and themes. We may understand these ideas intellectually, but to see a living, breathing human, literally model these concepts to real an unbelievable degree, that's what I feel when I think of you and your story. You know what it is too. And we talked about this.

[00:51:10] I'll just say it. There's so many people who have reached a material success and they're well known, but who they are as a human is so unimpressive, and I really don't care to have a conversation with them or know them. What I like about you is you are the words. You are these concepts. You are the ideas. You live them. You model them. And so when I'm in your presence, it's just like, whew, and I get so giddy because-- and that's why you're so refreshing and I think a big part of your success and impact as well.

[00:51:39] Kevin: Thank you, Kate. And I just know that I'm trying to honor those who came before me and poured into me. And they're all little pieces of me, this mosaic, this wonderful little pieces of me are all those people who have poured into me, and none of us do it alone. And as my nana would say, don't start smelling yourself. Only dogs do that, and it's not very attractive.

[00:52:02] So she would say, "Don't get caught up in your own hype, ever." She would humble you so fast. Oh, Nana Carol was about it. And so I just understand that. Just don't get caught up in your own hype. And stay humble and hungry-- humble and hungry.

[00:52:20] And  I'm not great at taking the compliments. I'm not great at receiving those things. I'm getting better at that. And I'm in my 60s. And that's only through the encouragement of my wife and those things. I have to learn how to accept that when people want to, please let me do this for you. Don't cheat people of those opportunities when they want to do something for you.

[00:52:41] So I've had to learn that because I'm like, "Oh, it's fine. It's fine. It's fine." So I've had to allow people to actually give that to me because that's their gift right in return for my generosity, for my relatability, for my approachability, for all the things that I want to offer to people.

[00:53:00] So I'm getting better at that. And if there's anything that I'm growing in is that, receiving when people want to thank me for things and truly just receive it. And learning how to receive it. And so that's a thing that I've really been working on, is doing that because, yes, I know I'm very generous.

[00:53:20] Yes, I know that I want to see people succeed. Yes, I'll keep it moving. Like a catalyst. I'm just a spark. I'm your spark. I'm your spark. I'm not going to, hey, when you get to be a big deal, hey, how about you give me an endorsement? I don't have time for that. I'm going to keep it moving.

[00:53:37] But when people do want to send me a note or reach out out of the blue, I do learn how to stop and read and realize, wow, my message has reverberated for 20 years with that person or that person met me when they were eight and they're in their 30s now and they still have the book that their parent got signed for them. Or that person who I sat down and read books with in a Nike office, who now works at Nike as an executive has hired me five times and tells the story of Kevin sat down and read books with me when I was nine.

[00:54:13] Kate: Wow.

[00:54:16] Kevin: These are things now that I pay attention to. When I was in it, it seemed like the right thing to do. Why should I pat you on your head and then talk to your parent? Because they could put me on to something. No, you're a person too. What are you up to? What are you doing? I'm just reading books. I have some books. I'll be right back. Go and bring my books and sit and read books with Nicole. And Nicole's in her 30s with her own family now and has hired me five times.

[00:54:44] Kate: That's so unbelievable.

[00:54:45] Kevin: It is. And so what I'm starting to understand is, as my wife said, all those seeds you put out there are turning into oaks now. And who would have ever thought? And she said, "And all those oaks are reaching back out to you." She said, "So I'm never surprised when you tell me a story or when you share this." She says, "Of course, because you did it with no agenda. They were the agenda." Make your absence felt.

[00:55:13] Kate: Well, even when we stop recording, there's two people that I want to introduce you to especially with the psychology work that you're doing, and they're huge media players because I'm like, "Oh, they need to have Kevin come talk to their organization. They need to have Kevin on their show to talk about these things," because you really are healing hearts and the world.

[00:55:32] For me, I love to connect people, and I love ever to see everyone win and succeed. And I feel like that's going to be a huge part of my success because I come from industries where people are stabbing you in the back. They'd rather die than tell you good job or acknowledge your excellence.

[00:55:46] And they definitely don't want to hook you up with anyone who's going to put you on a platform. So for me, I don't want to sit and complain about that. I have felt my feelings of being hurt by it, but then I'm like, "Oh, well, then let me do the opposite." Hey, and after this, I'm like, I'm connecting Kevin with so and so. I'll do that.

[00:56:01] We'll do the email. And she's going to be so happy and you're going to be happy and everyone's going to win and it feels good. And then I know if I'm ever a match for something, someone will be like, Kate, you got to introduce my contact, Kate. So it all comes around. And I feel like that's what people miss. It's like, your jealousy is blocking your blessings, not mine.

[00:56:18] Kevin: Say less, say less. Your jealousy is blocking your blessings. Get out the way. You need to get out the way. Most of the times we get in our own way. We really do. And so the better you are at getting out of the way and making room for those blessings and those things, they'll come.

[00:56:35] Got to do the work. Got to put the work in. And you just have to trust and believe. It's not microwavable. It's not going to happen overnight. It's just not. What do they say? Yeah, I'm a 10-year overnight sensation, or whatever. That's what it is.

[00:56:52] And for whatever reason, we don't want to show the lonely work, but we need to let people see the lonely work, that work that's really not glamorous. But we just trust and believe. We'll put the work in. We just trust and believe hard work never goes unrewarded.

[00:57:05] Kate: I like the "it's not microwavable," which I am lazy in the kitchen and microwave a lot of stuff, but it doesn't taste as good as when it's properly prepared, as you know. And you didn't see my keynote because you had to leave, but I talk about country singer, Shelby Lynne, who won best new artists at the Grammys in my talk, and it's to emphasize the P of patience for my five Ps of confidence.

[00:57:25] And she won best new artists and she got up there and she was gracious, but snarky when she said, "Oh, best new artist. It's only taken me 10 years and seven albums. Best new artist."

[00:57:36] Kevin: Yes, exactly.

[00:57:38] Kate: Seven albums.

[00:57:38] Kevin: For people to discover you, right?

[00:57:41] Kate: And think of, like you said, all the people that would have given up.

[00:57:45] Kevin: Oh, absolutely. Well, most people give up. They do. It's not for me. It's never going to work out. And it might have been just before it was going to tip in your favor. Just before. But that's also how it works. It's part of the test. It's part of the journey. I just love the hero and shero's journey.

[00:58:07] Joseph Campbell, that whole hero with 1,000 faces. It plays out the same way. Humble beginnings, get the calling. No, no, no. Run away from the calling a few times. Get a little sidekick. Sidekick. Tells you, "I think that's for you. You should go after that." Okay, fine. Reluctantly go on the quest.

[00:58:25] Go on the quest. Obstacle, obstacle, big moment, obstacle. Find a way through it. Come out transformed, return a different person. You see it in everything. Films, TV shows, everything. But it plays out in real life all the time. The quest is offered to you and a lot of people run away from it.

[00:58:47] The calling is offered to you and a lot of people run away from it. No, that's not for me. I'm going after this thing. But no, this is the thing. And your sidekicks, I think that-- no, this is the thing. And then, yeah, you may have a modicum level of success. But maybe you never fully manifested you in all your glory, in all the beauty and wonder of you.

[00:59:12] And maybe you cheated us of that person. And I always tell that to the young people. I always say, don't cheat us of your gifts. Don't cheat us. We deserve to meet all your gifts, not a portion of them, all of them. So get out the way.

[00:59:30] Kate: Get out the way. Say less. But I know people are going to want to continue-- you can keep listening to this episode again and again, which I will do because you really want to ingrain the words, and you're such a wordsmith, and the power of our words and your words and just really get it, not just in your brain, but in your heart and your body.

[00:59:46] So you've written four books, which I also think would be great for people, the hard copy or audio books. So tell us a little bit about your books. And obviously we can get them everywhere books are sold and it's a new year. This is going to air in early January. So the books and then really setting us up for success in 2025.

[01:00:05] Kevin: I just think many times I go back to curiosity and just your willingness to read. I will always suggest The Alchemist before I even suggest any of my books. I just think that that book is required reading of all dreamers. I love that book. I reread that book every other year. I get something new out of it, depending on where I'm at in my mindset.

[01:00:25] I can just draw something new out of it that really resonates with me. So I just love the whole idea of alchemy and a mixture of things coming together to create magic. I just really think that that's something that's beautiful about our journey on the earth. And our opportunities can always be magical.

[01:00:44] And yes, I've written four books, all with the red rubber ball in them. Google me, you can find that stuff. Yeah. But I did a book about belonging and it really is about an ode to Preston playground. And I just talk about the importance of belonging to yourself first.

[01:01:02] You need to like yourself and enjoy being around yourself. And if you ain't cool in other circles, you're fine because I like me. I'm good with me. And I think one of the most freeing things that ever happened for me, and maybe I was in my 40s when this happened, that I understood I'm not for everybody and I'm okay with it. Kate, once I figured that out, that was the unlock.

[01:01:29] Kate: Ooh.

[01:01:30] Kevin: It was the unlock. It changed everything for me. So if you weren't vibing with me, I'm good. I'm going to keep it moving. I'm fine. And once I figured that out, it was freeing for me. And so that book, the belonging book, it just really talks about how to love yourself and how to be okay with yourself and how to be okay being alone, by yourself.

[01:01:53] And the self-talk and the way that you speak to-- all that. And once you can get to that place, ain't nobody living rent free. No. Can't nobody get up in-- no, they're not. They're not. That's a high-rent district. You ain't getting up in there unless you got some big money, big bags. Because it's not happening. Yes. And so that's the thing about the belonging book that I love, is that it just talks about how do you learn to belong to yourself?

[01:02:19] Kate: Why is that so hard for so many people?

[01:02:22] Kevin: Self-talk, again.

[01:02:24] Kate: And we're not taught to belong to ourselves. It's like you belong to your parents or you belong to the-- yeah.

[01:02:29] Kevin: Yes. And so we get taught a lot of lessons we have to unlearn as we get older. And listen, as parents, we're trying to do our best, and I get it. And we're all a work in progress too, as parents, we're figuring it out flying the plane and building at the same time deal with children.

[01:02:48] So you're going to have these things you don't do well, but the more that a parent can be curious and learn it themselves, then they won't put any of the bad lessons and things in their children, and self-talk is one of the biggest ones. Just teaching them, how do you talk to yourself? How do you encourage yourself?

[01:03:07] How do you convince yourself you can solve that problem that's not unsolvable, that's not going to upend you? It's not the end of the world. How do you rally people around you with your energy and the way that you show up? All these things are important. And so that goes back to belonging to yourself and being okay with you.

[01:03:26] And from a sports psychology standpoint, self-talk is so important, emotional regulation, attentional focus, all that being present. But that's all stuff I've learned over the years. I just now have the science terms throw on there, but my Nana Carol, she was on point. She was peeking around the corner early.

[01:03:46] Kate: Wow.

[01:03:47] Kevin: Yes. So let's just learn how to belong to ourselves but be present on purpose, be where your feet are.

[01:03:54] Kate: Mm. I'm going to even uncross my legs, put both feet on the ground when I ask you this, what would 66-year-old Kevin say to 6-year-old Kevin, and what do you think 6-year-old Kevin would say to 66-year-old Kevin?

[01:04:08] Kevin: I think what I would say to my younger self, honestly, is, "My guy, listen. We're going to be all right. We're going to figure this out. And it may feel overwhelming, but you're going to find an amazing group of people to rally around you and support you in ways you never could imagine. And all you have to do is get out your way.

[01:04:33] "Don't let any of these things that you're facing feel like they're insurmountable. They are something you can overcome. They're not insurmountable. They're opportunities. And once you figure that out and just stay curious, I'm telling you, you're going to be gobsmacked by what ends up happening. And you're going to have defied the odds in ways that no one could have ever imagined."

[01:05:02] Kate: And 6-year-old Kevin, what's he saying to you?

[01:05:03] Kevin: It's on. Let's go. Let's dance. What are we doing next? Me, when I was a kid, I was all about it. Yeah, I was just like, say less. Where are we going? What are we doing? Yeah, I had Winnie the Pooh Chigger energy, and stuff. Yeah, I was going.

[01:05:21] Kate:  I'm feeling it. And he's still with you because I'm like, [Inaudible] right now.

[01:05:25] Kevin: Oh, yeah. That is one thing that I always say to people. I want you to see and feel my energy before you know my age.

[01:05:33] Kate: Yeah. 6-year-old Kate has a crush on 6-year-old Kevin. That's all I know. I'm like, "Hey, Kevin."

[01:05:39] Kevin: I love this. Oh, believe me when I tell you Ms. Lane would always point out, she said, "You had no idea the energy you would bring in a room." And I said, "Ms. Lane, I don't--" She said, "Because you were just being you." And I just think that I know I count my blessings on a regular basis.

[01:05:57]  I'm always paying attention to the fact that I've had these angels around me. I know that I have been protected. I get it. But for a purpose. And here I am here. I'm in my full purpose now. And so if I can, share a little bit of Rev Kev on a regular basis and put the good word out on positivity and optimism and finding ways to rise above suffering and circumstances, I'm going to do that every day.

[01:06:27] Kate: Kevin Carroll, I just want to talk to you all day. I want to take us out, but I'm like, any just last little thing that's coming to mind before we go? Because I don't want it to end, but I know we got to go. Or maybe little Kevin has one more thing to say, I don't know, but you have the floor.

[01:06:41] Kevin: Just don't ever dim your light. Everybody has wonderful light to share, and don't let anyone dim your light, but don't you dim your light. And I just think that we all have to show up because we all have something to offer and just recognize that. And whatever you might be facing right now, it's not insurmountable.

[01:07:00] And I think if you bring a level of curiosity, bring a level of play, you can find a way, get people to rally around you. Energy never lies. Energy never lies. People will rally around your energy. But if you bring some stank energy, don't nobody want nothing to do with you. So bring good energy.

[01:07:19] Kate: Bring good energy. Well, Kevin Carroll, a true catalyst for transformation. I'm going to go put on my play clothes and go play. I hope everybody else is. Thank you so much for being here.

[01:07:30] Kevin: Absolutely, Kate. You're light, and I appreciate light in the world. So just keep sharing your light. Don't let anybody dim yours.

[01:07:37] Kate: Thank you so much. And if they try I'm going to think of you and I'm going to be like--

[01:07:41] Kevin: That's right. My Nana Carol would say, give them half a peace sign and you know what that means. Nana Carol is no joke.

[01:07:49] Kate: Don't come for us. I'm like, I got a little Kevin on my team. He did a lot more. Yeah, he became a lot. I feel good with him.

[01:07:57] Kevin: No doubt.

[01:07:57] Kate: We got some powerful angels here, so don't mess with us.

[01:08:01] Kevin: No doubt.

[01:08:02] Kate: Yeah. But I hope everyone goes and puts on your play clothes now. Go out and play, have some fun. We love you. Thank you so much for being here. Check out everything about Kevin in the show notes. Pick up those books, make it an awesome 2025. We'll see you next week, everybody. Bye-bye.

[01:08:16] Kevin: Be well.