Betting On Yourself: Georgetown’s Record-Breaking Coach Edwin Thompson

[00:00:01] Edwin Thompson: If we have good humans, we have good character and make up people in our organization, well, we're going to thrive because they will find a way. They will work together to improve their skillset, to help the team win, and maybe add value in other ways.

[00:00:12] We talk about being a pro all the time in life and not just when you're having success, when you don't have success, you better be a pro. Because if you want to move up in the corporate world or move up in the world athletically, you need to make sure you're a professional, and you're a professional in what you do in all aspects.

[00:00:29] We also told the guys the other day, we don't live on our reputation. We live on our work.

[00:00:33] Anything you have in life, you have to have a plan. How do you get there? We talk about, as a team, our identity is going to be like this. We're going to be competitive. We're going to be professional. We're going to be hardworking. We have these pillars. So what is your pillar as a person?

[00:00:46] Kate Eckman: Hi, there. Welcome back to Rawish with Kate Eckman. We're here today with Edwin Thompson. He's the head coach for the men's baseball team at Georgetown. Go Hoyas. We were just talking about how much we love DC. I spent some time there in grad school. It's a beautiful place. And what a prestigious role to have.

[00:01:05] And so I think we can all learn from everybody's journey. But I always do like talking to coaches because they're under so much pressure and stress and you got to win. But there's so much more to winning and not just the w on the board, but everything that goes into it behind the scenes.

[00:01:23] And so whatever your sport is, whatever you're trying to win, I know that Edwin's going to shine a lot of light on that today, how we can all be more successful and really define what success even means for us. So Edwin, thank you so much for being here today.

[00:01:36] Edwin Thompson: Oh, Kate. Thanks for having me on. I'm looking forward to having a great conversation today.

[00:01:39] Kate Eckman: Yeah, absolutely. So before we hit Record, we were just talking about the importance of-- I wrote down a whole bunch of things here, but I wanted to make sure I said it right. You said the importance of being a good human and how much that goes into recruiting and that it's so much more than just raw talent or what people can do on the field. Can you talk to us a little bit more about that?

[00:02:01] Edwin Thompson: Yeah. I think any industry, no matter what you're trying to do, when you're hiring somebody, or in our case we're recruiting players to come play baseball, you want three things. You want someone that's hardworking, that's loyal, and willing to learn. I think you start with that framework. Of course, in our world, as you said, we need to win games.

[00:02:17] So you have to have talent. You have to have ability that can help you win a game. But when you're recruiting, it doesn't always work out like you hope from a talent standpoint.

[00:02:24] But if we have good humans, we have good character and make up people in our organization, well, we're going to thrive because they will find a way. They will work together to improve their skillset, to help the team win, and maybe add value in other ways that maybe you wouldn't.

[00:02:38] But if you get a person that doesn't have that good character makeup and it's just really about themselves, not about the team, that's when you run into problems. That's when you have some issues in the organization. And you have some guys that, I've seen it many times where even we're winning games are not happy because they're not playing. They're not contributing.

[00:02:53] But I always put that back into our players and say, there's always a role, and everyone has value. It is create and embracing those roles and those values that allows you to have that type of, meaningful impact that you have on in the organization. So I think that's our first thing we look at, is just the person and the human side of things, just to make sure we have the best person we can.

[00:03:12] Kate Eckman: Yeah. And besides what people are saying or doing in the recruitment process, is it a feeling? Is it intuition? Is there just that sense that this person's going to be a great teammate, this person's going to be a leader? I trust this person. And sometimes we've all been deceived. We've all been there. Certain person just came to mind for me in my life. But what encapsulates being a good human? And is it something that we can sense from someone else?

[00:03:36] Edwin Thompson: Yeah, I think there's different traits. How you talk, how you communicate, I think that's a big part that we talked about earlier too, before the show started. The communication part is if a kid is not a good communicator and really is not able to just articulate exactly who they are and what they're about, is it clear indication? I don't think they're not going to be a good person.

[00:03:54] But if you have a chance to have a person with a little bit of a presence and a little bit of ability to expand on who they are, instead of just being like, yeah, I'm this person, that person. Because all they can do is text or they can't communicate like they can face to face.

[00:04:07] I think those things are so important. But you just try to see qualities, and obviously you get a lot of information. We do a lot of digging, like anything in recruiting. We try to find out about who they are, their high school coaches, their travel coaches, their administration. And then for us, we take the next step with coaches that coach against them.

[00:04:23] If it's a good player that we're recruiting from a talent standpoint, they're going to stand out. So how do they do when they have success, and how do they do when they don't have success? And I think a lot of times we go watch a game, if a kid doesn't have success for that day, we find out the most about that kid on that moment versus having a great game because we can truly see what happens when it gets tough.

[00:04:41] And that's the reality. It's going to be tough. It's just nature of athletics. So those are some qualities that we try to look for in those moments and having some failure, just to be able to see that and how they respond.

[00:04:50] Kate Eckman: Yeah. And you've had so much success, which I'd love for you to share with all of us for people who don't know, but so much success on the field. And I can't even imagine being a head coach at a prestigious program in this day and age with social media and, like you said, the texting and kids just growing up in a completely different generation than when you and I grew up.

[00:05:10] We didn't have cell phones when we were kids, which, thank God, to actually connect and play and do other things to entertain ourselves. But what is that dynamic like where you all-- I have friends that are college coaches and they feel like fathers to me.

[00:05:27] There's so much to manage. Some players come from broken homes. They don't have solid father figures. I feel like there's some babysitting, there's some parenting, and then there's player development, and then there's the whole athletic component. But how do you navigate all these moving parts in this chaotic world where I think it's challenging for kids nowadays? It's a toxic environment right now, and they don't have the tools that someone our age has developed over time.

[00:05:56] Edwin Thompson: I think it's just constant work, in a good way. A lot of these kids, we get at 16 years old. We have them through the recruiting process. They get to college at 18. They graduate at 22, and then from there, that alone is a huge transition. Forget everything else. Forget all the things you just mentioned. From 16 to 22 is just a huge growth and development. Things are changing. Things are happening. And so to be along in their journey for a small part of it and have a small impact, that's so valuable. And I think I take a lot of pride in that, my staff.

[00:06:25] People say we have success. Well, I have all the losses. We have more wins and losses the last few years, but for the most part, the players are out there doing the thing. My assistant coaches do a great job. And so I think my job, my role is to really make sure that we're all connected and we're on the same vision and we're going towards that direction and getting people to understand that, like I said earlier, everybody has a role.

[00:06:45] Everyone may not look as what they thought. They thought they should be playing this or doing this to help the team, but maybe your role is going to be this. And so I think keeping it simple as best we can has always been strength of mine, to keep it very simple, not try to do too much, and not worry about things we can't control.

[00:07:02] It sounds as simple as it is, analogy of stuff that's in the rear view is gone. Stuff that's far ahead, you can't really see it. But the stuff that's right in front of you, how are you going to deal with that? If you take that small step in the process-oriented approach that we try to take here, the better off we're going to be in the long-term, help the kids filter because it is a lot they have to deal with.

[00:07:21] Kate Eckman: Yeah. And you're being very humble, but Georgetown baseball has not seen this kind of success in three decades, and under your leadership, you are winning more games than you have in 30 years. Besides your awesomeness and the talent on the team, what do you attribute that success to?

[00:07:39] Edwin Thompson: I think Georgetown has unique ability. We attract some of the best and the brightest kids in the world academically, and so you have kids that are high achievers. And when you have kids that are high achievers, they have an innate ability to recognize that it takes work to be really a high achiever academically.

[00:07:55] Well, the kids we attract also have that same vision from a baseball standpoint. They want to be extremely competitive at the baseball. And so we don't let our academics or our baseball suffer. We try to keep it pretty equal and allow them to take that initiative and ability and that competitiveness, to both sides of what they're doing as well as being a great person.

[00:08:13] And I think those are the things that have been our secret sauce, is just allow us to have a great environment, that honest and open environment. I'm not saying in demeaning way, but it's honest, open conversation. And I think in our sport, for example, a lot of time, baseball, it's not like football, but we have a depth chart.

[00:08:30] We post a depth chart on where they stand and we're honest with them how to get out of that situation they're in. And I think as an individual, you just want to know what you can do to get where you want to be in life. And then if you can have that framework and that blueprint of what it looks like, then now the next thing you have to go do it. And I think that's something that we've been really prideful for, is just getting our guys to really buy into the team, the concept of team, allowing them to just be in the best space they can be to help our organization. But yeah, I think that's probably the easiest way I can say is just our environment.

[00:09:01] Kate Eckman: Yeah, environment plays such a crucial role, and it always starts at the top. Most people are used to corporate, and it's like, if the CEO is toxic, it just trickles down and you see that a lot. It's so common, unfortunately, and you see it in sports too. There's been headlines of some of the abusive coaches. There's a basketball coach coming to mind. He would throw chairs and be abusive to the players.

[00:09:22] And there's some people who lead with violent communication and screaming and they think that motivates the kids. And then there's other coaches who lead with love and respect and that that motivates them. Who really helped you develop your character so that you can be a good human and then really just teach?

[00:09:41] Because you're really teaching morals and standards and leading with integrity, which is so refreshing. And sadly, listen, the athletic businesses, both college and pro, can be very toxic. And it can bring about a lot of toxic masculinity, and you're like a family man and this good-quality person rather than all the ego. And they're lucky to have you. Where does that foundation stem from?

[00:10:09] Edwin Thompson: My parents. My dad and my mom instilled in me a work ethic of values. There was always honest conversation. It was never like, "Hey, you feel good because you got fourth place." You had to earn first place or second place, or make a medal. So I think that part was really instilled in me at a really young age, not to where it was overbearing, where they were like, "Hey, you got to get first place."

[00:10:29] No. If you want first place, that's up to you. Here's how you have to get there and have to earn that. And I think that-- and then my dad would always say, you can make excuses or you can make things happen. And in life, as humans, we make a lot of excuses of why we can't do something or we can't achieve something.

[00:10:44] And I look at that and then I think my other person that really helped, my first coach, was Dick Meader, who was at University of Maine Farmington, my first charter coaching, 20 years ago. He said, life is simple when you do the right thing, and it doesn't guarantee success.

[00:11:02] And I tell my players, it doesn't guarantee success just because you do the right thing, but allows you more often than not to have a chance to have the success that you want. And in a coaching world, and this is 20 years ago, I use that every single year. And I tell our players to do that. It just makes your life a little bit easier. It doesn't make it hard.

[00:11:22] Life's hard. Stuff's still going to come up. But I think just keeping that approach, keeping the game, the game, and the life, the life, and then school, school, and not try to cross over has really helped our program. I know because we try to give them balance, give them some free time, let them take a deep breath. Because if you're just always going, going, going, they can't just be 18 to 22-year-old kids. You got to give them that time to have that space to grow. And that's an important process in itself.

[00:11:50] Kate Eckman: Yeah. Thank you for that. What are your thoughts on mindfulness practices and really training the brain, and for me even more importantly, really training the heart and the emotion?

[00:12:00] Edwin Thompson: Yeah.

[00:12:00] Kate Eckman: There's so much emotion in athletics, and you see people fly off the handle and lose their cool. Even now, I go to this meditation space here in LA, and it has changed my life, even in just the six months that I've been going and taking the intentional time to go and train my brain to really reprogram the subconscious and to really work on my emotions. And emotional regulation is so important in athletics, but what are your thoughts on that?

[00:12:25] Because in college, we're learning the math, the science, and all of that, and that's important, but I still don't think enough emphasis is placed on the mental and emotional training. What do you think about all of that?

[00:12:36] Edwin Thompson: Yeah. I think you're right on. We don't have enough time. Fortunately, NCA only allows us so much time in a week for us to be able to do practices, lifting, meetings, video, film, and then to add something like, in our sport, mental game is such a huge part of it.

[00:12:51] So we try our best to incorporate that into our practices. Wednesday is team meetings. We have some classroom time that we try to do and still just different values that allow you different options to get in your mental space, to get in your own time, to have that time for your spiritual growth, to have that time for your own personal growth, whatever that is.

[00:13:08] But at the same time, we only have limited time. So it makes it a little bit harder than we would like, I think, as coaches. But it's so important. I think the ability to connect, and to have a plan, an action, I think how to be a good person, I try to sell that a lot.

[00:13:24] For example, if they're at a ballpark with their family someday, and a baseball player went past their section of the seats going back to the dugout, cursing or slamming or really making a bad example, I said, "What would you tell your children? How would you describe that situation?"

[00:13:40] Put them in a real-life situation where if that's you, somebody's in the stands with their kids, so try to connect them to where they can feel that reality of potential situation before it happens and then why you don't do that, you don't act that way.

[00:13:56] We talk about being a pro all the time in life and not just when you're having success. When you don't have success, you better be a pro. Because if you want to move up in the corporate world or move up in the world athletically, you need to make sure you're a professional and you're a professional in what you do in all aspects.

[00:14:13] And so it starts with me being consistent with my demeanor, whether we win or lose. I try to be very consistent in my delivery after win or loss. And then the next day, how my body language is, how my energy level is. Is it the same when we won three in a row, or is it when we just lost three in a row?

[00:14:27] And so that's a constant battle we all have as competitors, but I think it's something that we try to strive with the mental game and try to deal with adversity. And I think that's the other part of the mental training that we have to deal with, especially with baseball because we fail so much.

[00:14:41] Kate Eckman: Yeah. I don't know how anybody gets a hit ever. I don't know. Picture it, all of my arm hurts watching, and then the capture, my knees hurt watching. And then just to be able to get any hit, even if someone's throwing me the easiest pitch. There is so much. And then there's so many distractions and so much noise. It is such a practice. I guess they do their mindfulness training at the plate where you're everything out and you're focusing in on this ball coming at you very fast, and then you have to do something with it.

[00:15:11] Edwin Thompson: Yeah.

[00:15:12] Kate Eckman: I feel like that's the training in itself. What's a lesson that you've learned? I know you've had both successes and failures, but to take a program that really wasn't on the radar and have all this success since you've taken over the program five years ago, what do you really think has been, I guess, the special sauce, if you will, in the winning?

[00:15:34] Edwin Thompson: I think winning is a starting point. My first year we had seven days of practice. It was during 2021. Our school wasn't open. And we had some moments of challenges. We never met the team. So I get there March, 2021. About seven days later, we had a game, which, again, no matter how you want to slice it and dice it, we always had competitive motion.

[00:15:56] But then as you get into it, there's reality of not practicing. And I think there was small wins then. We had wins in the organization of how we competed, how we went about our business. And then the next year we were able to set a school record of wins.

[00:16:08] And I think it wasn't anything we did differently. Our standards stayed the same. We were consistent in what are messaging. And then, as you grow, players buy into that. So I think anything you have in life you want to get to, you have to have a vision. You have to have a plan.

[00:16:19] How do you get there? Okay, everyone has a vision. Here's the plan, how to get there. Here's what it's going to look like. That's the part, I think, doesn't guarantee your success, but it gives you a chance to be, in our world, in the game. And we've had more success from a winning standpoint than we have losing.

[00:16:34] But we also told the guys the other day, we don't live on our reputation. We live on our work. Our work has gotten us to this point in our program to be competitive nationally, to be competitive regionally, and within our conference. Now it's just a matter of maintaining that.

[00:16:48] But it comes down to, daily and process-oriented approach, which we've taken that approach. I think the sauce is having great kids and great coaches, assistant coaches that do great. My job, again, is just try to continue to get the right people on the bus, as they say, to buy into that vision.

[00:17:04] And I think that's been something that the kids have bought in well, and we've had high achievers. They want to be successful. Because you don't settle coming to Georgetown. We're not a safety school. Nothing against any other school, but we're just not a safety school.

[00:17:15] It's an elite institution. So we have the type of people in our organization and now you add the talent and all those things start to come out, and it's pretty fun to see it work in real time.

[00:17:26] Kate Eckman: I think high achievers, I'll speak for myself, experience a lot of success as an athlete, in the classroom, and have had a successful career. And I have also struggled with a lot of self-doubt and low self-worth at times that I didn't even realize that was what's happening. Or never feeling good enough for whatever reason. How we're raised. A society certainly is always telling us what's wrong with us and how we don't quite measure up.

[00:17:53] And it can really start to weigh on us. And I think especially if you're a high achiever and performer, you have such high standards and expectations, and so they're hard to always meet. What do you say to a player when they, in your opinion, are still doing quite well, obviously, and like you said, you're not an elite institution, but you can see them struggling with self-doubt or the negative self-talk or beating themselves up? How do you get them out of that space, and what new thought process are you offering them?

[00:18:24] Edwin Thompson: Perspective is the first thing, I would say. Let's say, take a deep breath. Yes. You may not have performed as much you wanted to do. Yes, you may not be as what you're doing, but you're at Georgetown. You're on a Division 1 team. God willing, your family's healthy. You're healthy.

[00:18:40] Let's start with the perspective. And then we go into the deeper. That's the service level. That's like, okay, coach. Yeah, sounds good. I know I'm happy to be at Georgetown. I'm lucky, all that stuff. Now the real work begins. When was the most successful time in your life that you had?

[00:18:54] And so I put them in a positive mindset when they're not in a great spot. So let's just say I tell them, "Okay, tell me the best game of your life." And they'll say, "Coach, I was in high school. I had four hits, two home runs. I had this." And that instantly gets them in a positive frame of mind.

[00:19:12] And then from there, okay, what were you feeling? "I was feeling free." And they give all these adjectives of how they were feeling, what their emotions were like. I said, "Okay, so you're capable of doing it, right?" And they go, "Yeah, coach."

[00:19:23] So then from there you hopefully transit that like that. It's like step two. And then you hope as a coach, yeah, they go out and have two hits that game or whatever it may be. It doesn't always work that way, but it's the feeling. It's the confidence, and it's the feeling that you have to instill into your people, whether it be in the corporate world or in my world, the athletics, that they can do it.

[00:19:42] Because if they don't believe that, then that's another issue. But I think those are the couple things that we try to do, I try to do, or instill just confidence, just quiet confidence, but then tangible that they can feel in their spirit that, you know what? I am a good player. I just happen to have a couple not-a-great game, and my mind can be better. And so something simple like that has a lot of positive response from when I do that with the kids.

[00:20:05] Kate Eckman: I love that. That's one of my favorite questions I ask as a coach, a different kind of coach, is what made you successful in the past? I think when we can tap into that energy, and then me, I think, well, as a swimmer, I was a great teammate. I showed up every day on time. I was disciplined. I had fun with it. Didn't take myself too seriously. And then applying that to your current role, I think, is so helpful. And I love that, just getting that perspective.

[00:20:28] Edwin Thompson: Mm-hmm.

[00:20:28] Kate Eckman: Sometimes for me, all I need, like from you, if you just said, "Kate, you're amazing. You still did great." Just even sometimes, and I'm a words of affirmation love language, but just even someone seeing me and saying like, "Kate, this is part of it." I think when we also accept-- I think of when I was a sports reporter in DC and the San Antonio Spurs were there, and it was the Tim Duncan era. And Tim had, I think, the worst game of his career to the point he got benched. Tim Duncan, he was the league MVP at the time.

[00:20:59] And I interviewed Manu Ginobili after and was asking about it, and I loved his response. And I'll never forget it. He said, "I know Tim looks like Superman. He acts like Superman. He plays like Superman. He's not Superman. He's a human. He had a human day, and he's allowed to not score 40 points every game."

[00:21:19] Edwin Thompson: Right.

[00:21:19] Kate Eckman: And I think, what you said, perspective is so important, but it's also important to have a teammate or a coach have our back rather than, why'd you suck? Because when you do that, then you're in your head and you'll probably suck the next game too.

[00:21:32] Edwin Thompson: Yeah. I think that's such a huge part, is just how you deliver a message. In life, and I would tell our guys, like, that's going to define you or develop you. And so if you have failure, is that going to define who you are as a career? Is that your journey? Or is that going to help you develop into something, find a way to get overcome whatever it is you're going through?

[00:21:55] So we always define and develop. Those are the things that we try to stress to our kids. Like, hey, you're going to grow from this. You will get better from this failure if you are open to getting to where you want to be. And if they're, then they'll have a better, at least, perspective going into that. And if they're not, then sometimes that happens too. A lot more work is involved. But that mindset is how we try to approach it.

[00:22:18] Kate Eckman: Do you do the team building exercises? It might sound a little woo or a little touchy-feely, especially when dealing with men's programs, but this is how I want to help change cultures, whether it's sports or corporate, where it's just more time. I have this vision of everyone, just like what we did, is just sitting in a circle, cross-legged on the floor, and going around and just talking and asking each other questions. And you're getting off the phone.

[00:22:46] And you made an example before we hit Record about asking everyone, what's Kendrick Lamar's number one song? And everybody knew, but then it's like, okay, how many siblings does your roommate have? And that was a lot harder for people to answer.

[00:23:01] So talk to us about what we can do to improve that overall connection and cohesiveness, but first connecting with ourselves on a deeper level. And I know they're young, but then being able to do it collectively as a team, because I just know that will put more wins on the scoreboard.

[00:23:18] Because then you're not just up at the play for yourself. You're playing for your teammate. You're playing for the kid who maybe lost a parent or the kid who's going through a challenging time, or someone who has an illness. You're playing for something so much bigger than yourself.

[00:23:33] Edwin Thompson: Yeah. The connection is huge. We did that yesterday. We did two truths and a lie, and we did that as a fun game, icebreaker to start our team meeting. And that was fun because they want to talk, and you can't text. And I tell guys, "You can't text, Snap, or Gram out on the field. You have to communicate. You have to talk."

[00:23:50] And the more often that we can get those guys talking about just life and things, the better off. And the mood was so high energy, and it was so fun, and guys laughed. That moment of 15 minutes doesn't take long to do before we got into [Inaudible] our team meeting.

[00:24:07] It's not hard. It's all intentional. If you have an organization, a team, or whatever, your family, it's important to make sure you stay connected and not just always on your phone. I think that's the part, is put the phone down and talk to the person and have human connection.

[00:24:22] I've done it to where we've had guys got to stand up and talk about why they got a tattoo. And you learn a lot about a person. It can be something service level like, hey, I like a certain sports team. All right, that's fine.

[00:24:33] But then you dive into the kid that had a date on there, which meant then because his grandmother passed in that day, who raised him. Then you have a deeper level of connection within your team and your fabric. It gets stronger really, really quickly in those meetings.

[00:24:48] And they get emotional, and that's okay. And you want that safe space to have that. So there's just a lot of ways to do that. I think it is important. We're taking an approach this year, every Wednesday we are putting the baseball and the bat down.

[00:25:00] We are going into our human side, whether it be how to buy a house, what debt is, how do you finance things? So that we have different topics that we cover throughout the fall. We call them Mindset Wednesdays. And we'll do everything from mental health to life in professional baseball, getting a job, interview process, just different things.

[00:25:19] But we always start with an icebreaker. We're always going to start with something fun. And then we'll get into our day. So I think it's intentional. It's important to you. The players will buy into that, or the people in the organization will help.

[00:25:30] Kate Eckman: Yeah. Without being at any of your practices, I can see why you've had so much success. And it really does, I think, start with your own emotional intelligence and willingness to go there. And as I like to say, we have to fine tune our own instrument before we can play it for the world. And then, again, you set the example. Because it's one thing you can say all the inspirational quotes and talk all the talk, but then they see you acting out or yelling or not showing up for them or not listening, and there's that disconnect.

[00:26:00] Edwin Thompson: Yeah.

[00:26:00] Kate Eckman: So yeah, I can see how you've been successful. So I appreciate that mentality. We talked a little bit about this, but if you were going to give a TED Talk because you would like to do that, I see you doing that. I would love to hear it. I can't wait. But what are you talking about in your TED Talk?

[00:26:18] Edwin Thompson: I would have a combination of things that I think I've had success of a builder. I've been known as a builder, and what that looks like and the adversity you have to have that comes with that, I think showing people that you can start from somewhere. I'm from a town of 6,000 people in Jay Maine.

[00:26:32] I played Division 1 baseball. I was able to play professional baseball. I've been coaching baseball now for 21 years in college. So how does that work? And I always tell guys in recruiting, if your life was a movie, what would the title be and why? And it allows me to connect with that recruit, and they have to really think about what their life is.

[00:26:52] And then mine would be, if it was easy, everyone would be doing it. And it's a little bit longer title movie, but not everybody is built for working seven jobs in my first four years to survive. And they always want things handed to them. And so I think the ability to have perspective now and 20 years in, and the ability-- so I think the TED Talk would go with a little bit of dreams and vision.

[00:27:13] And then what does that look like? Is it always going to be rainbows and unicorns? No, it's going to be real life stuff that comes up. And then how do you deal with it? How do you overcome that? And I think there's a lot of different ways to get there. I think just having a unique perspective in my end is to go and to talk about how I build a team, how I build an organization.

[00:27:32] How do we get a team that hasn't won in 34 years a winning season to one of the better teams in the country? It happens with a lot of support and a lot of people. But I think those ideas and those values that, like we talked about, I think are ways that I think would resonate with pretty much any organization, could utilize some of those teachings or those insights that have helped our organization have some success.

[00:27:53] Kate Eckman: Yeah. And you said if it were easy to do, everyone would be doing it. And I think along those lines, something that I have learned the hard way is the importance of not sharing our goals, our dreams, our vision, or even the big thing or project we're working on with everybody. Maybe when it's done and completed and it's like, here's my book. Would love for you to order it. Here's my podcast. You should watch it.

[00:28:17] But I'm finding that when you share certain things, or if you invest a lot in yourself, whether you go to the expensive grad school or you hire the expensive team to support you. And I don't say expensive, but good people cost good money. And I think it's worth it.

[00:28:32] Just like when people invest in me, you're investing in someone who's done the work and is going to show up at a different level than someone who hasn't. And you've experienced so much success in doing something that few people do, which is be a professional athlete, coach at a very prestigious university and have great success there.

[00:28:52] I think a lot of us deal with people and we're surprised by the people who maybe don't support us or the people who aren't happy for our success, but then strangers love you. What is that? Have you experienced that, and how did you manage that?

[00:29:07] Edwin Thompson: Oh, for sure. There's an old saying my dad would tell me, there's a lot of people out in the world that will not believe in you, and there's a lot of people in the world that will not think you can do certain things, but if you focus on those people, you're just wasting your time. So focus on the ones that love you and care for you.

[00:29:23] Like in our world, a lot of these people can criticize public figures to some level, and it's like there's an-- I heard someone say this, and I can't take credit. Would they be at your funeral? Would the people that are saying these things that are getting you emotionally into it, would they be at your funeral? Or the people that care and love for you be at your funeral?

[00:29:40] And that really resonates, obviously, in the world that I'm in. And we're not highly in that type of environment, but there's always people that are going to criticize you. And so you can't focus on that. Focus on the ones that focus on what you do. And I think for me personally, I had somebody that was in the school system flat out told me that I should not apply to these schools because I'm just going to go work in the mill.

[00:30:03] And when I first got in playing professional baseball, it was not going to ever happen. So when I graduated college and I got a baseball card, I signed it, sent a thank you note, said thank you for motivating me, to tell me what I couldn't do. But I never lost folks who believed I can do. Some people get that wrong. A lot of times I'm going to prove you're wrong.

[00:30:24] I don't know, you're just proving yourself right. And I think if you have that mindset with how you go about it, there's no stopping at what you can do. And I think that's something for me, is I just don't worry about people. As long as my boss is happy, my players are happy, my staff, that's it.

[00:30:41] Fans are always going to, "Hey, you should abandon here." I get that, but deep down, I think that's how I've approached things. And I think anybody can really take that approach. It's like, just focus on people that love you. And if you can do that, it's harder said than done with social media and things like that, but at the end of the day, everyone has their opinion. That's fine. As long as you believe in what you're doing and you're passionate about how you're going about it, that's the most important part.

[00:31:04] Kate Eckman: Yeah. Thank you for that. And you talk a lot about perspective, and you have a perspective that I've never had or will have. And as a Caucasian woman, and you are not a Caucasian man, you're one of the few-- you know the stat better than I do, but one of the few African American are head coaches. First of all, how do you feel about that? And then what does that mean for you?

[00:31:30] Edwin Thompson: I think in baseball black coaches and players are minorities, and that's a fact. I think in Division 1, there's 300 Division 1 teams, and there's 14 Division 1 head coaches that are black. And then five that are at predominantly white institutions.

[00:31:43] So I think I've always been the first, for the most part, everywhere I've gone, first coach, first this. I was first coach in ACC at Duke to be a baseball coach and some things like that along the way. But I just know that's part of my journey and it's part of my mission, is to help provide other opportunities for the next generation of coaches to say, "Yeah, I can do that."

[00:32:04] Because I didn't have necessarily that. I had some great people to look at, but now there's some more assistant coaches. Obviously, we have a very diverse team. I want our team to mirror our university. We have females. We have Asians. We have Latins. We have everyone at Black. We have everyone in between in our organization.

[00:32:21] But I take a lot of pride. I'm very outspoken about if opportunities are not provided, you need to continue to work to get those opportunities. No one's going to give you anything, no matter what you look like. You got to be qualified once you get into that room to go do the job at a high level.

[00:32:35] And I think that's something that I wish more ADs and coaches out there would hire people that don't look like them. But unfortunately, sometimes you're comfortable with who you're comfortable with. But I know I can control what I do, and I mentor 20 to 30 young African American coaches and non-coaches as well.

[00:32:51] So that's my mission. And so I'm doing my part, and I take a lot of pride in doing what people said I can't do. And that's okay. But I've always believed in myself. I always bet on myself. My dad said, bet on yourself. My mom, bet on yourself in life, and you're going to be just fine.

[00:33:05] I think no matter what industry you're going to be in, if you can bet on yourself, you are going to have a chance. And your work ethic, desire, passion, all those things. But that's what it comes down to. So yeah, I'm very aware and very prideful of those statistics. And I'm hoping to grow those numbers in myself and helping others get opportunities.

[00:33:25] Kate Eckman: Yeah. Are you comfortable, and do you like talking about the race component of it, or would you rather people not bring it up? For me, I think it's everything you just said. It's great because you talk about it and then you can help bring about even more diversity. And I love what you said too, but it's not just about that.

[00:33:41] You have to be qualified for the job and work for it. So do you like having this conversation and discussion? Would you rather not? And how do you feel about the whole race conversation? Because it can be loaded at times. It can be triggering, but it can also be such a great place of transformation and growth.

[00:34:00] Edwin Thompson: I embrace it. I had a coach recently call me up and said, "Hey, I want to recruit more. I see you have a diverse roster. How do you do that?" That's a huge win for me. And that one coach will help them and then maybe another coach will help them. And so those things are important to embrace. Our society sometimes shies away from it, but I just embrace it. We are humans. We're all humans. At the end of the day, we may look different. We may have different hair, different background, all those things.

[00:34:29] But at the end of the day, we're all humans, and that's what we're all here to do to be the best humans we can be. And I think providing light maybe for some young coaches, they'll be like, "I can coach at a Division 1 school. I can do those type of things." And I started off Division 3 for six years and I look around, there wasn't anybody even close to looking like me.

[00:34:45] Now there's more opportunities, there's more coaches and more players in certain aspects. It's like anything. I don't shy away from that. People want to talk about it, I'm here. I've talked about it on MLB Network. I've talked about it in newspapers, US Today to New York Times, to different things of that nature.

[00:35:01] And I think it's important to have that information out there. People are like, wow, only 13 Division 1 coaches are black? That's concerning. When you think about it, out of 300, well, wait a second. No wonder there may not be as many black players playing.

[00:35:16] So there's a lot of factors into different things. We could have all talk about race. But for me, I just always embraced, I know who I am. I know what I'm about. I know that we're going to provide a great experience.

[00:35:27] We're going to be competitive at what we do. We've had some success. Guys have done really well. And I think that's something that race gets taken out when you just have the person, and standards, and the values that I feel like I try to instill to my players.

[00:35:41] Kate Eckman: Wow. 13 out of 300 Black coaches in 2024. Wow.

[00:35:48] Edwin Thompson: Yeah.

[00:35:50] Kate Eckman: Does that make you mad, or does it inspire you? It's not personal, but I could imagine would feel a little personal.

[00:36:01] Edwin Thompson: The problem is the hiring cycle went through this year. It might be 14. No more than 15. I know that. And we've lost a couple guys. It's frustrating. I think when you try to promote the game and try to see how beautiful the game is and you have a small group of people that don't even have a chance to get an opportunity to be the head coach, as I'm saying, those are difficult things. We try to work as best we can to help promote that. So I think you can't take it personal. It's just you try to create change in your own way. And I think whether it be helping, like I said, mentoring young coaches to help get opportunities for jobs in their own world, in their own space, help my staff who's diverse, help them grow. And then just ultimately the part of this business is results oriented business, is keep winning.

[00:36:46] And the more you keep winning, other ADs, other head coaches will say, "Hey, they're winning with a diverse roster and diverse coaching staff. Hmm, maybe I should--" If they're not winning-- and even if they're winning, they want to have opportunity. So one I just embrace and just move forward.

[00:37:02] But I don't take it personal because I'm not in that space to have negative thoughts. I try to stay clear in mind best we can. It's not perfect. It's never going to be. I don't think it's going to be perfect. We're not perfect. It's a society. But we can make it better. And I think that's the steps I try to focus on versus the one that I can't control.

[00:37:19] Kate Eckman: Yeah. How can parents or coaches help teach young people, their kids, their players even more, to focus on an identity that is really independent of even the results that we're achieving or even being-- our race and our heritage is definitely a huge part of our identity, but to not let certain things own us or certain things that are associated with that race, for instance, to define us in any way.

[00:37:41] You've really managed to have this solid identity that's not based on one thing and I can just feel there's not any bitterness or resentment. You're not pissed by that statistic. It's more of just like, okay, well we've got some work to do here, and I'm happy to lead the charge. But I think, especially working with young kids who are really trying to figure out who they are-- there's people who are 80 years old who still don't know who they are, independent of their job title or something like that.

[00:38:10] How can we help young people really develop a solid identity that's based on solid footing and foundation, rather than all these superficial qualities or characteristics.

[00:38:21] Edwin Thompson: I think come back to conversation. I think conversation, talking to them, allowing them to have space to talk and ask, who are you? What is your identity? What are you about? We talk about as a team, our identity is going to be like this. We're going to be competitive. We're going to be professional. We're going to be hardworking.

[00:38:37] We have these pillars. So what is your pillar as person? And I always say, like, what can you get better at? And I challenge our kids. I always say like, "Hey, one thing you want to get better at academically, socially, and then baseball." What are things you want to improve on? What are your limitations right now? Where do you want to improve?

[00:38:53] And so over that course of that development over the three, four years we have the kids, that's where you feel like by the end they know who they are. They know what that process looks like. And that's where, I think, college is such a beautiful time, because yeah, there's a lot of misconception, like you don't need to go to college, but there's so many things of a value to understand who you are as a person.

[00:39:12] And maybe there might be some things you may learn or don't need to know, but understanding who you are is the most valuable thing you can have by the time you graduate. And I think, yes, you have a degree, but if you know who you are going to that world, it won't change too much.

[00:39:27] It's going to be hard, but at least you have, like you said, the footing part of it. So I think for me, I've always tried to establish that personally, but also with the players, just believing in what they do and what they want to become. And won't let anybody tell you differently.

[00:39:38] Kate Eckman: Yeah. And you're a shining example of that. When you look back at your life and career thus far, what are you most proud of?

[00:39:47] Edwin Thompson: That's a great question. I never get asked that question. I've been consistent. I've been really consistent in my messaging. It is changed probably when I was 24, 25, 26. My messaging was probably not heard as much as it is now with the kids because I probably wasn't the most positive and just nature of-- that's how my coach talked to us.

[00:40:06] Now I have an 8-year-old daughter, and so I don't cuss and berate at my daughter. I don't cuss and berate at my players. And so I think, like you said, delivery, timing, understanding the kids and the relationship, meaningful relationship, and knowing all about who they are and what makes them tick.

[00:40:22] I can pull a kid aside and say, "Hey, listen, you told me when recruiting you, you're going to do X, Y, and Z. Right now, you're not doing anything. So what's going on?" So just that part of it, I think I've been consistent in that area. And I think I've been able to help a lot of people that may not be traditionally in the game of baseball.

[00:40:39] I have a lot of people in professional baseball that have played for me, and my mission when I started coaching was impact young people. And I feel that each year I can impact young people. And so that's been my success. Wins and losses will come, but the success part is when a kid calls and, "Hey, coach. I'm getting married. I'm having a child. I have this job interview. Can you help me? I need to reference."

[00:41:00] I'm doing what my mission was when I started this thing 20 years ago, and I'm able to continue to do that, and we'll see how long I do it. But at least I'm fortunate to be in the situation I am and I'm blessed and have perspective daily.

[00:41:12] Kate Eckman: I love that. Thank you so much. Consistency. I feel like that's so much of everything. But that's often the hardest part. It's like you can do that great thing maybe Monday, Tuesday, and then Wednesday. You still doing it, or you'll still do it next week, next year, in four years? So to have that longevity. For anyone listening right now who's going about their day or evening and wants to win at the game of life, any final thoughts, coach, to motivate or encourage them?

[00:41:37] Edwin Thompson: I think just keep going. I think that's the key. No matter where you're at in your journey in life, and whether you're on your own, in organization, you want to improve. It's like you just got to have a plan. Put the plan down and write it down. Put it on the board. Growing up-- I'm from Maine-- I wanted to play professional baseball and I had a picture of a person on a field in Florida, and I looked at it every morning. And I had a sign. I wrote it on there. I said, "Hey, while you're in shelving snow, I'm out on a baseball field." And that just something for me, something simple like that motivated me to make sure throughout the day I made sure I got my extra work in or I got my things in. And so whatever that is for you and where you're at in your journey, it can become, simple things like that.

[00:42:15] I think a lot of times change doesn't have to be this huge process. It can be very simple. And I've learned even my own personal challenges, things I want to do is like a simple change here and change is going to be good. And it's necessary at times. And so I think the more people can do that, just keep pushing and keep moving forward.

[00:42:35] But then keep getting yourself around people that have had success, is the other part of it too, I think is important. And then just having fun while you're doing it. Because you got one life, and you might as well enjoy it. And so just do the best you can with what you have to work with. But don't make excuses. Keep moving forward.

[00:42:49] Kate Eckman: Oh, Coach Thompson. I'm feeling good. I'm ready to keep taking on the day. I can see why you've been so successful and that you prove my theory, that it really is an inside job in taking the time to develop these inner characteristics so that you can really shine in the external world.

[00:43:05] Thank you so much. This has been such a pleasure speaking with you. We'll have to do it again, and I'll reach out to you when I'm in DC because it's so good to keep this perspective and remember that it is the long game. And if you're getting that overnight success, it's probably not going to last because you have to build that solid foundation. So thank you so much for being here.

[00:43:25] Edwin Thompson: Thank so much for having me, and I appreciate, and love to have you. Anytime you're in DC, let me know. We'll meet up. But anything, I'll have you back on. Love to jump on. It was a great conversation.

[00:43:33] Kate Eckman: It was so fun. Thank you so much. And thank you so much for being here today. We'll see you right back here next time on Rawish. Have a great one. Bye everybody.