Conquer Chaos: Master Life with Yoga & Reema Datta

[00:00:13] Reema: Who you truly are is this consciousness. It's just part of being human to experience these emotions, like anger and these states of mind, like attachment and fear. That's a natural part of being human. So there's just that understanding and that acceptance, which in of itself is huge. It's one thing to experience those emotions, and then there's another layer to just judge ourselves and be like, "My God, what's wrong with me? It's beautiful to realize that we have a choice of where we place our attention.

[00:00:50] Kate: Hey, there. Welcome back to Rawish with Kate Eckman. We are going to take some deep breaths today. We're all going to calm down a little because my guest today is already giving me some calming energy. I'm feeling it in my body to just slow down and pause a little. And I know we're all going to learn so much today because she has written one of the most stunning, gorgeous, deep, nourishing books I've ever had the privilege of picking up and just sitting with and savoring each and every word and page.

[00:01:23] And it really is a whole 12-week course in book form. I'm talking about The Yogi’s Way: Transform Your Mind, Health, and Reality. Here with author Reema Datta, another New World Library author, which we love them. Thank you so much for being here today.

[00:01:40] Reema: Thank you for having me. It's a pleasure.

[00:01:42] Kate: Yeah. Your energy is so calming, and what I love about that is that you truly embody every word and the practice. And I'm excited for our conversation today because I think a lot of us are overwhelmed, exhausted, or we think that we just need to go for a simple walk. And certainly that's better than nothing.

[00:02:01] Many people do practice yoga. I avoid it sometimes because I'm like, "I'm not good at yoga. I can't do the poses that long." Or this hurts, or I feel like I need to be doing more. I'm not as good as the flexible gal next to me. And we're going to talk about yoga from a much deeper perspective even than just the physical.

[00:02:20] And that's what I love that you've done in this book. It really is about our mental and emotional wellbeing as well. So I would love for you to share a little bit about, of all the books you could write, you chose to write this book, and there's just such a wealth of knowledge here, even from a family history.

[00:02:37] Reema: Yeah. It's interesting because the book was born out of my own struggles with my mind. So a lot of people who are struggling with anxiety and depression and shame and fear, just so you know, the book was born out of me experiencing all those emotions really intensely and realizing that I'm having a really hard time getting ahold of my mind.

[00:03:04] And it was interesting to me because I was born into a family of yogis, and I've had so much exposure to yoga since literally I was in the womb. My mom was a practitioner, and she sang mantra while she was pregnant, and my grandparents practiced, so I just grew up with it. And I had been teaching yoga for 10 years, very successfully all over the world.

[00:03:28] And then I went through a really traumatic event in my life and I went through a separation with the father of my daughter who was just three years old. And it just knocked me down. I was pretty devastated and felt so much anger and realized all these attachments that I had and shame and anxiety, fear.

[00:03:50] And it wasn't just for one day. It was for weeks and months. And it was wild to just observe myself because I was like, "Wow, I've been a successful yoga teacher. I have a deep practice. But still, my mind is a mess." And I was having such a hard time that actually, I decided to move into my parents' home and just lean on them for a little while, get some support from them.

[00:04:15] So my daughter, who was three, she and I moved into my parents' home, and she started going to preschool. And so many mothers know, our parents, when our children go to preschool, we're like, "Wow, we have five hours to do something."

[00:04:33] And so while she was at school and I was with my parents, I just would put myself almost into a retreat setting. And I just immersed myself-- my parents' bookshelves are full of books of yoga philosophy because it's our family tradition. I grew up with the teachings.

[00:04:51] And so their bookshelves are just full of yoga wisdom books. And I started to pick them up and read the original texts of yoga wisdom, the Vedas and Bhagavad Gita, some of the most ancient teachings of yoga. And I was familiar with all of these teachings because I grew up with them. My grandparents read me these books, my parents, but it was so different to read that wisdom at a moment where I had just gone through a deep wounding.

[00:05:25] And just to read those books from the eyes of a mother and a grown woman and someone who was struggling, the teachings really came alive to me in a different way. And actually my whole approach to yoga changed. Because one of the things that really struck out to me from the wisdom text was just this understanding that we, as human beings, it's just part of being human, to experience these emotions, like anger and these states of mind, like attachment and fear.

[00:05:59] That's a natural part of being human. So there's just that understanding, and that acceptance in of itself is huge. It's one thing to experience those emotions, and then there's another layer to just judge ourselves and be like, "My God, what's wrong with me?"

[00:06:14] And so it released that like, wow, I am human and I can experience this. And there's an okayness about that. And then on top of that, there were just all these wisdom teachings and practices to help us really move through the emotions. I, like so many humans, either brush the emotions aside like, it's too much.

[00:06:35] I'd rather look at my phone. I'll rather do anything than face these emotions. Or I get overly entangled with them, which I did that too. But I didn't really know how to meet the emotions because when I was dealing with those kinds of emotions, they would just drain my energy.

[00:06:53] I just was left exhausted. And I felt stuck, and I even felt sick because emotions can have that effect. So I was feeling all of that and learning how there's ways to face our emotions in ways that can actually heal and uplift us, rather than drain us and defeat us.

[00:07:18] So that was huge for me, and I had to come up with these yoga practices just to help myself out of a dark place. And then I started sharing them with friends and colleagues and then workshops and trainings, and then this book.

[00:07:34] Kate: In the book, which you're saving us thousands of dollars because usually these courses are thousands of dollars to get all of this wisdom and these teachings and really get all of your knowledge and wisdom. So thank you so much and for putting it into such a gorgeous book, that, by the way, is endorsed by Sting, who says, "Those who experience yoga with Reema will be touched by her presence and offerings as have I." How did your teachings with legendary iconic musician Sting come about?

[00:08:04] Reema: I've been lucky on my yoga journey. I think it was around 2005, I started teaching in Europe, some workshops and trainings. And one of the teachers who I was co-teaching with, he was Sting's first yoga teacher as well as Madonna and Paul Simon and all of these people. His name's Danny Paradise. And they're very good friends, Danny and Sting.

[00:08:26] So I ended up meeting Sting through Danny and started working with him. And Sting has this beautiful habit that before he goes to perform, he'll do yoga-- asana or pranayama or even mantra. I've done some mantra with Sting before he goes on stage. Just thousands of people.

[00:08:46] And so that started to happen that as I traveled, if our schedules ever aligned, then I would try to meet with him and do a practice before he performed. But he's so generous and kind that he's invited me to his homes in England and Italy and New York. And so I've had the opportunity to also teach his family and friends and band members.

[00:09:10] Kate: It's working because I saw him perform at the Hollywood Bowl last summer, and I was marbling at his fitness. I feel like his body and his fitness at his age was even more impressive that he could still sing Every Breath You Take so beautifully. And his son was on stage, and he's as fit if not more fit than his son, who's much, much younger.

[00:09:33] And so it works, and I think that's such a testament to longevity and to do what we love and be able to do it for such a long period of time at such a high level. I think it's not just the physical practices, but the mental and emotional practices that I'm very passionate about, even the book that I wrote.

[00:09:50] And emotional wellbeing is such a hot topic for me because I really do find that it is the key to us really owning and embracing our power and overcoming all that life throws at us. So when I think of yoga and the definition, I think downward dog. I know this is not an official definition. I think downward dog, which I'm decent at.

[00:10:10] Shavasana, best pose that I'm good at. Really the only pose I'm great at is Shavasana, just lying there. So how do you define yoga? Because I think that's been part of your journey too into this mental and emotional component of yoga.

[00:10:25] Reema: Yeah. It's funny to me. It's just interesting that yoga, in the mainstream, it's defined as union of mind, body, and spirit. But I don't actually agree with that definition. Through yoga, we can achieve a beautiful alignment of mind, body, spirit with the higher forces of the universe.

[00:10:46] So there's that alignment for sure. And that's one of the outcomes of yoga. But I wouldn't say it's union of mind, body, and spirit. If you really look at the ancient texts, yoga is union with our soul. And another word for soul is our innermost being. In yoga terminology, we'll call that consciousness or pure consciousness.

[00:11:12] So yoga's union with our soul, our inner most being, consciousness. It's also referred to as the true self. I like the word consciousness. That's how I was taught, and it resonates well with me. So in the book, I use the term consciousness. Just so the listeners know, that is another word for soul, our inner most being.

[00:11:33] So then we look at, well, what is that? What is consciousness? And what the yogis have found, and actually meditators all over the world find that at the very essence of our being, at the very core of our being, there is a silence and a stillness and a spaciousness. And to tap into that part of ourselves is very powerful.

[00:12:00] Because then it's like, if we can rest our mind on that spaciousness, then all these amazing things start to happen. We start to experience insight or clarity or just vitality, because consciousness, it's like a source of energy. So when we tap into consciousness, it's a moment where we can actually relax and recover and heal.

[00:12:32] The original teachings of yoga, the point of yoga was to not just tap into consciousness for a moment, but to practice and practice and practice and eventually be able to just dwell, just to anchor, be anchored in consciousness and that spaciousness and silence. And from that space, we engage with the world.

[00:12:55] We take care of our responsibilities. We give our gifts. We explore our interests, but we're always rooted in that spaciousness at our center. Even facing our emotions, challenging emotions like anger and anxiety, I feel like the greatest, the gem of the ancient wisdom is teaching us how to approach those really intense emotions from the seed of consciousness, from this open, welcoming, loving presence. And then things start to heal and we can process things really in a powerful, positive way.

[00:13:36] Kate: So you're saying something in a whole new way, which I love, and this is why I love this show and these conversations and guests like you, because when I think of consciousness, Reema, I think mind. And while my mind is very powerful, I also know that my mind has limitations. And my mind sometimes is out of sync with my body.

[00:13:54] And I've been working on that with my coach and therapist in my own practices. But you're really saying that our consciousness is our soul, and I think our soul and spirit is perfect and much deeper and more complex and more brilliant even than our minds. So that's how I am seeing it. But can you say a little bit more about our consciousness being our soul and not our mind?

[00:14:16] And does our mind have these limitations that our soul doesn't? So anything else you can say for me now to wrap my conscious mind around it, but maybe my soul needs to take the wheel. Because it knows, sounds like, better than my mind. I hope my question is making sense.

[00:14:34] Reema: I'm with you. I'm with you. And I'm so glad you asked because it's another thing that's just brilliant about the ancient yogis, just their understanding of the different layers of the mind. And a lot of ancient Sanskrit texts, there's this beautiful metaphor.

[00:14:53] So they say that the mind is the sea. So the surfaces of the mind are like the surfaces of the sea. The waves are constantly moving, constant change. There's big waves. There's small waves. But there's constant movement and constant change at the surfaces of our mind, just like the surfaces of the sea.

[00:15:13] But if you imagine the very depths of the sea, that's the depths of the mind, this quietness, this stillness, this vastness. That's consciousness. And different yogis, even different schools of thought, they'll explain things in different ways, but I think it's just sematics.

[00:15:31] So some people will say the very depths of the mind is consciousness. And some people say consciousness is further than the reaches of the mind. So I think that's just sematics, in my experience. But I like the sea analogy, that we can all relate to the surfaces of the mind. We all relate to that constant movement and change.

[00:15:53] And yoga, I love the ancient teachings because they say that that's the nature of the mind. The nature of the mind is to move. So we don't have to fight that. We don't have to judge that. We don't even have to try to change that. But the trick is just to start to pay attention to those depths through that quietness and stillness, that is at our depths, and just start to draw our attention to that and start to get to know that space.

[00:16:24] And as we do, when you meditate and get in touch with that vastness, it actually becomes so fascinating and interesting that those surface waves, they don't hold our interest so much. And then our mind isn't so gripped by this thought or this emotion, and we accept it.

[00:16:43] Like, in this moment I feel peace. Or in another moment I feel anger. There's no fighting it. But since we're so rooted in this vastness, it's like it matters a bit less and we're a bit less affected by it, a bit less drained. So that's like those layers of consciousness or the layers of the mind. You can think of it as the surfaces are moving and the depths have that beautiful vastness.

[00:17:09] Kate: I love that. It reminds me of when I was doing transcendental meditation teachings and getting instruction and ask, well, what's the difference between-- it's all called meditation, but this versus guided meditation or putting on a song? And my instructor explained it almost the same way where she said, a guided meditation or just lying down and listening to some music, that's more of being on the surface of the ocean and sitting in a boat.

[00:17:35] And then transcendental meditation with our mantra and going really deep for 20 minutes, taking two minutes to come out of it, it's literally like sitting on the bottom of the ocean, the ocean floor. So I was like, "Oh, you're like the scuba diver." And that's where all the really beautiful, colorful fish are, as opposed to that surface level that-- everyone might have access to the consciousness of, I'm driving my car. I need to pay attention and stop at the red light. That's sitting on the boat on the surface.

[00:18:00] And then that deeper consciousness of really tuning into that inner wisdom that gave me the idea for this show, for instance, and what we're going to talk about and what kind of conversations we're going to have and why that's so needed and important. And maybe that surface level consciousness is like, "What about this?"

[00:18:17] And putting in, and I call it the ego too. So I like that there's access to these different levels of consciousness. I have so many questions now. One, I want to talk to you about accessing this deeper consciousness, and then also the struggles I've experienced where you're scuba diving, if you will, with that consciousness.

[00:18:36] And you are interacting with people who've never been scuba diving, who are scared to go any deeper than the surface of the ocean, or even dip their head in or put a snorkel on to explore. So first, how can we access this deeper level of consciousness? And why is it important that we do?

[00:18:55] Reema: So how can we access it? It's beautiful to realize that we have a choice of where we place our attention. It's very beautiful how the ancient teachings reminding us of how much freedom we have in our day-to-day moment to moment lives. So I have the choice, like, do I pay attention to the waves at the surfaces? Do I pay attention to every thought and emotion that's coming and going?

[00:19:24] I can. That's a choice. Or I can consciously shift my attention to that underlying reality that is quiet and still and vast. And that takes practice. And you mentioned staying. One thing that is amazing about him that is hard in this day and age is just discipline.

[00:19:50] Yoga practices work when we do it daily. You move. You sit. You do awareness practices every day, and then you start to see real shifts. And the first thing I think of when I think of Sting is like he has that discipline, the daily practice, and we see it. It's obvious, that he reflects that.

[00:20:09] But I feel like that's the challenge of this day and age where we have our phones and our computers and so many distractions. So I think just making a commitment to oneself to have a daily practice, even if it's 20 minutes or 30 minutes a day. And that's when you start to feel the shifts that, okay, wow. Now, because I've been doing this daily, I've been hearing the teachings daily, I've experienced that shift that I don't have to pay attention to the surface waves, and I can start to just direct my attention to that deeper, underlying vastness.

[00:20:45] And maybe one day you just tap into it for a moment and then after a couple of weeks, that moment becomes longer and longer. And eventually you're just rooted in that, all the time. But that discipline and that daily practice is a big part of it. But even to access it, I can do this with you right now just to also show you how simple it can be. Would you like to just--

[00:21:09] Kate: I would love that. Even I'm uncrossing my legs. I'm getting all excited. I wish I could explain to everybody-- I have a lot of energy. I'm like, "Woo." And I love doing this. I love these conversations. But I just keep getting that reminder, even just being in your presence, to slow down and to settle down.

[00:21:27] And not that one is better than the other, but even I can tell that you are disciplined and have done the practices. Because even just you saying like, okay, now we're going to access this, and I'm like, "Oh, okay. I'm ready." My feet firmly planted on the ground. I got my hands on my marble desk, and I'm like, "What are we doing?" I am not quite sure, but I'm excited. Okay.

[00:21:50] Reema: All right. I like the excitement. Yeah, let's take a moment. If you're listening, you can sit on the floor with your legs crossed, or if you're sitting on a chair, just plant your feet on the ground, and let's just take a couple of deep breaths and steady the body.

[00:22:12] You can keep your hands on your thighs with the palms up and open. And often when we're sittings all of us do this. We carry a lot in our hips. So you can just notice that without any judgment. We call this pure awareness. It's like looking within without judgment.

[00:22:32] And if you are holding in the hips, just relax the hips down towards the earth. Let yourself feel that support of the ground. And you can slow down your breath, nice, slow inhales and long exhales. And you can very gently tuck the lower belly in and up, and let that your spine lengthen and your shoulders relax.

[00:23:07] So just as the hips are rooting down, you can imagine a string from the sky. It is very gently pulling the heart up, but keeping the shoulders down, and breathe into the length of your spine. It's a nice, relaxed, deep breaths.

[00:23:30] Body is alert, but also relaxed. And especially relax the shoulders again, jaw, the forehead. And with your eyes closed, even keep the eyelids relaxed. And let's start to keep the eyes closed, but lift your gaze up towards what we call the third eye.

[00:24:03] So you can take your gaze right between the eyebrows and from there, go up about an inch, and then inwards about an inch. And from that point, just gaze at the space behind your forehead and notice that it is boundless.

[00:24:24] It doesn't have a beginning. It doesn't have an end. It's infinite. And you can keep your breath smooth and relaxed as you just rest your gaze at the space behind the forehead. And you can notice whether there's an uncomfortable sensation that arises in the moment, whether there's a really beautiful thought or a painful emotion.

[00:24:56] The space itself doesn't change. So we call this an unchanging dimension. Consciousness is an unchanging dimension, which is wild because we say that everything is always changing, and that's true. But there is a deeper reality, and that is this unchanging dimension.

[00:25:23] So continue to breathe deep and just see if you can rest your gaze on the space. Feel still grounded to the earth. Hips down, heart lifting. Your gaze is just steady at the space behind the forehead.

[00:25:49] It's unchanging. It also has this flavor of being so accepting. We have a moment we feel love. We have a moment we feel anger. We have a moment we feel anxiety. Or we have a moment where we feel calm. Whatever it is, consciousness is unchanging. It's like this open, welcoming presence.

[00:26:14] Whatever is alive for us in this moment, it's okay. So a lot of meditators throughout the world have a very similar experience that the space of consciousness, though it may seem neutral, if we really can rest here, we realize that that space actually morphs into love. This all encompassing, all pervading love.

[00:26:50] Whatever happens in this moment, this unchanging space, this love, it remains. This open, welcoming presence is here. And the yogis say this is the true self. This is our essence. We don't have to identify with our thoughts, with our mind, with our body. Those things are always changing.

[00:27:19] We don't have to let them define us or defeat us, whatever's happening in the body or the mind. But our true deepest self is this consciousness. It's like this field of possibility. The quantum physicist would call this underlying reality a field of pure potentiality. And the yogis would agree.

[00:27:47] Whatever's happening at the surfaces with their mind and body, there's still this truth, this deeper truth of pure potential. Every moment still carries pure potential. That space behind the forehead, it's like this field of infinite possibility. And that truth is always and always has been and always will be. And so every day we meditate and we get more and more familiar with this dimension. You can slowly start to open your eyes.

[00:28:29] Kate: Wow. I'm so curious what everyone experienced. I felt just this, it was like space, and your guidance just helped so much because my brain could have gone to other places, like some external distractions that are always happening in this house, on this street. And we will just say that with a smile.

[00:28:52] Thank you for letting me smile about it, allowing me to smile about it. But I just see the vastness, the universe. It was like that space, space mountain, that ride where it's just the black with all the lights, the stars, and really feeling my power and that oneness with the whole galaxy and the universe.

[00:29:11] And then you talk about yoga being mind, body, spirit, connection, but for me, I don't want to say it was the first time, but I'll say the first time I remember, and certainly while working, the mind, body, spirit, everything connected and everything one, but also one with the ultimate consciousness and everything.

[00:29:30] And so the fact you were able to put me in that place quickly, easily just shows-- plus, I feel like Sting right now. I'm like, "Yay." I do want to do this every day. I am like, "Think about what I can do." And I think that's the reward for me, and that's the inspiration for me, is think what is possible when we take even just 5, 10, 15, 20 minutes a day to do what you and I just did.

[00:29:55] You have it laid out for us in the book, but also, gosh, I want guided meditations and all sorts of things from you because you just took me to that space. And now that I know that I've been there, I know where to go to access that. And I want to just let you respond to that, but also I feel like that's the answer for when life gets loud, chaotic, there's disruptions. We can just go back to this place.

[00:30:20] Reema: Yeah. And it centers us. It connects us to our own inner wisdom. But in such a loud, fast world, we all get disconnected from. And the point isn't just to connect with that consciousness and go into a cave. It's to connect with that consciousness and be able to give ourselves to the world. And we're so much more effective when we're grounded and spacious and centered.

[00:30:48] And so the wisdom of yoga, what it's saying is that, as we all know, our mind is constantly moving. Our body is constantly changing. And so there's again, this layer of freedom that you're not your mind and you're not your body.

[00:31:05] Who you truly are is this consciousness. And so from that space of consciousness, you can direct your mind and body with wisdom and with love. And that's the point of yoga. Merge with your soul, merge with consciousness, and direct your mind and body. Because we don't have to be a slave to our mind. We don't have to be a slave to our thoughts. We can actually direct them and change them if they're harmful. And then we start doing the other awareness practices from that place.

[00:31:38] Kate: We're not our mind. We're not our body. We are our consciousness. And I think some of us have heard these concepts before. I'm hearing everything with fresh ears and consciousness today from you. So thank you for that. I think so much of it is, deeper than your words. It's your presence. It's your consciousness. And that we can direct it.

[00:31:58] Again I've done a lot of these practices. I'm hearing things in a new way. It's deeper than hearing. I'm feeling it in a new way. And I know this to be true, and I think sometimes we forget, or when we hear this concept of consciousness in a new way, I'm remembering and it's almost like I'm a baby again. The babies have so much more wisdom and then we get all messed up by the world and have to come back. But that we're not our mind. We're not our body. We're our consciousness.

[00:32:28] Reema: Yeah. In the book, I actually quote one of my teachers, because I feel like he really ties all of this in so beautifully. So when I'm writing about consciousness here, I start with this quote by the teacher, his name is Nisargadatta Maharaj, and he says, "Beyond the farthest reaches of my mind, there is a vastness. This vastness is my home. It is love, and it is who I truly am."

[00:32:59] And to me, that's just it. When we first start to meditate, it's just this vastness, and it seems there's this empty and neutral, but it really just blossoms into love, and then we realize this is who we truly are and this is what we can anchor in.

[00:33:16] Kate: Does anger still come up for you? I'm sure it does, but I'll let you answer where I just feel like you're so advanced. And I don't want anyone right now being like, "She's been practicing this forever, and I don't know where to start or I can't get there." But I love that you share it before we got into this, the inspiration was the anger and being the single mom and what you were experiencing and having this small child and that you're now at this place.

[00:33:40] And again, it takes time and the discipline, and you have poured your whole heart and soul and consciousness into this book. It is just such a masterpiece and want everyone to just pick it up. Even, it's interesting, before I even read one page, just having it on my coffee table in front of me where I always sit.

[00:33:56] Because I picked it up the other day and there was another book there, and I'm like, "Ooh, this energy." I just always want this on top. I could feel your energy in it, infused in it. But so what happens now if we are going and we're feeling pretty good, we're in touch with this, and then something takes us out, something major or minor? Or maybe you can speak from your own experience how you spend more time in this beautiful place as opposed to the anger.

[00:34:23] Reema: Yeah, I definitely still experience anger, so it just should be very transparent and real. Absolutely, I still experience the full array of emotions, including the tough stuff. I think what's different is that the emotions just don't grip me like they used to. I accept it and I let myself see it and be with it, and there's a knowing that underneath that anger or that anxiety, there's a message.

[00:34:52] Anger, especially, it's very revealing about what's important to us. I can just give an example. Say there's violence in your community. There's been some violence in my community here. And I was just reading some things in the paper and I was feeling anger, just some brutal stuff.

[00:35:18] And then I let myself be with it and I was just realizing that I have a teenage daughter. I care about her safety. I care about the safety of my community. That's important to me. And so then I have a choice. I can either sit in my house and brew in my anger and create all these knots in my body and my mind, or I can reach out to my community, to my neighbors, and talk about it and brainstorm solutions.

[00:35:47] And all of a sudden, the anger, it's not bad. It's actually led to something really great. One, an understanding of what I care about, and two, reaching out to my community and trying to find solutions. So that's just one thing, just realizing that these emotions, anger, anxiety, fear, they're not good and they're not bad. They just are.

[00:36:09] And to understand that there's a reason that they arise. And so to honor them, to welcome them, to greet them, and to be with them with that curiosity and that willingness to go to the depths of them and see what is it really about? And then going from there.

[00:36:30] And I've also found that, with processing these emotions, it's really helpful, I think, to communicate if the anger or the anxiety is connected to a person. There's a lot we can work out on our own or with friends and community. It takes a lot of courage, but just communicate. Communication is one of the pillars we talk about in this book.

[00:36:57] But just to decide to do your best, to be transparent with love, share your feelings with love and with that willingness to come to understanding, that makes a huge difference and helps us to get to the other side, and helps it not to linger when we can just free ourselves and talk about it.

[00:37:20] Kate: Yeah. And you give us so many ways to do this. The communication and the mental and emotional yoga, as I will call it, and really tapping into the depth of this consciousness, which just feels like your new best friend or the love of your life or God or whatever brings about-- your dog. I think of the late great Teddy, my beloved dog.

[00:37:42] It brings about those feelings. That's what I love about this. What can we expect to experience when we go through this 12-week course in the book? And again, how great that we can go at our own pace. We don't have to be on the Internet. We don't have to travel anywhere, although those things can be nice.

[00:37:58] But that it really just is in the touch of your hands. And everyone, if nothing else, get this book for just the good juju. Even if you don't read a page, the energy that you have infused in this, I don't even know. It just feels so nourishing. So what can we expect to experience? I know it's so much to go through. Or even how it has transformed you or has been so fulfilling to you. Just anything you want to share about this journey that we can expect to go on in the book.

[00:38:28] Reema: There's a lot of practices in the book. I give a lot of homework. I'm not messing around.

[00:38:34] Kate: Exactly. Best money you'll ever spend.

[00:38:38] Reema: If you really do all the practices in this book-- and it's very doable. Some of the practices as you know, those who have read it, it's like 15 seconds in the morning or literally two minutes. All the practices in this book culminate in a 70-minute sequence, just to give the listeners an idea.

[00:38:58] So that's the dedication that I ask for, is to dedicate an hour, a little over an hour daily to your practices. What it can lead to is a lasting peace. I love going to yoga classes, and I always feels so good, Like you said, Shavasana.

[00:39:17] Once you're in Shavasana, we're all at peace. It's so blissful. And what's happened with me, and I think a lot of people, it's like after 5, 10, 20 minutes, we go back into our world, and there's the chaos again and the mental anxiety. And it all just comes back. And when you read the ancient text, you see that the intention of the earliest yogis was to help us cultivate a peace that is much more profound, that's lasting. That's unshakeable.

[00:39:51] And I write about my grandmother in the last chapter of the book because she had that. I loved writing about her because she shows us that-- her life was actually very hard. It wasn't like she just had this easy, peaceful life, so she was at peace. She dealt with so many huge challenges. Lived in a very patriarchal world.

[00:40:14] And just to give an idea of what I mean by that, taken out of school in the eighth grade, married at 14, lived 15 hours from her family. Lived in a city where no family, no friends. Had her first child at 16 and ended up raising her four daughters pretty much by herself.

[00:40:38] My grandfather ended up traveling and living abroad. So when I say challenging, I mean huge things like that. But what's remarkable about her, and I always hear my mom and her sisters talk about how my grandmother just had so much joy in her day-to-day life, and I saw this too. I had the opportunity to spend a lot of time with my grandmother, but she just was joyful. She cooked all of her meals from scratch, sewed her daughter's clothes on her own, and just just had this resilience within her that, "This is hard and that's hard, but joy is my birthright. And I do feel lonely sometimes. I do feel anger sometimes. There's so much wrong with the world around me. But no one can take away my joy and my peace." And it was really something unshakeable within her. And she had a practice.

[00:41:40] And I think it really gave her that resilience and that strength, and that's possible for all of us, which is like, I have to remember myself, that whatever's going on in our world, however big our challenges are, there is that possibility of peace, and we can still bring joy to ourselves and the people around us.

[00:42:03] Kate: Yeah. And what I'm hearing is that she passed down that piece to all of you and how beautiful that is and what a gift that is. And that we're not just healing and doing these things for ourselves, but for our heritage, for our ancestors, for the world. I think that's the most beautiful thing, and I love that you've kept these concepts and these practices in the family. And then how great you have a daughter.

[00:42:24] And I'm just excited to see what she does with it, even if it's just living a peaceful life and doing a chaotic career, which I don't see. But you talk about something that I think is really, really important and something that I've really been working on and doing, I feel like, as a hobby almost, and just any free chance I get.

[00:42:41] And that is to really nourish and care for our own emotions, especially our challenging ones, whether it's sadness, grief, anxiety, fear, anger. And it sounds so counterintuitive because we aren't taught this. In fact, we're taught the opposite. You're angry? Calm down. Settle down. You're sad? Cheer up. You're upset? Just let it go.

[00:43:04] All these dismissive, damaging things that are said to us, and it's probably because it was said to the people who are saying it to us.

[00:43:11] And so without shaming or blaming anyone, and then certainly I've been very, very mean to myself and judging myself and shaming and blaming myself, I'd love some guidance for all of us of how to-- we pay lip service to it, to, oh no, love myself and all those things, but to really befriend and nourish and love our anger and our uncomfortable, difficult feelings and emotions.

[00:43:36] Reema: Yeah. I get this suggestion in the book. First of all, it's interesting to hear you say that because even in the spiritual world, we talk so much about letting go. And I mentioned this yogini in the book. She said, "Yeah, we all want to let go. Of course, we want to let go. But if you let go too soon before you actually wholeheartedly let yourself be with what's arising, that can actually lead to even more mental turmoil."

[00:44:06] And she said a lot of beginning yogis make this mistake, that we are like, "Oh, it's uncomfortable. I'm not supposed to feel anger, so I'm just going to let it--" And that doesn't work. It just comes back bigger. So I offer this visual to imagine a crying child, this child who's just upset and distraught. And instead of telling them to, oh, just cheer up or something, that you actually hold them and you let them cry and you let them talk about what upset them.

[00:44:42] And you just listen and you give them tenderness and affection. And when you do that, their bodies just relax in your arms and you can see the shift in their body language and their face and in their energy. And they soften. And then there's a space that's created, and that's when we start to heal and grow. Just allowing space for being with it.

[00:45:09] Kate: Oh, I love that you said that. As you're talking, because I think a lot of people, especially men, think they need to fix something or people say they need to say the right thing and they don't know what the right thing is, so they say nothing, and we feel ignored or we feel even worse, like they don't care.

[00:45:23] And I remember saying to a boyfriend when I was upset, "Why can't you just love me?" Or, "Why can't you just hold me? And then you even talked about a baby, because yeah, when we're young, we just want to be held. My niece and nephew just always wanted to be all over Aunt Kate and all the hugs and snuggles and love and they grow up and they don't want it as much.

[00:45:43] Or maybe they do, but then that's not cool. And I think no hugs and snuggles forever. I'm like, "Oh." But even holding ourselves. I get into bed some nights and I'm like, "Everything's great. I got it. I'm doing it all." And I'm like, "I just want to be held." So I love that you say that. And sometimes someone isn't here to physically hold us.

[00:46:04] And again, especially in spirituality, we talk about the practice of loving ourselves. And when you say to someone, "Why can't you just love me?" We're really saying to ourselves, "Why can't you just love me?" And I understand that to a degree too. And we're not meant to do it all alone. And yes, I can love myself, but I would like a hug from you, Reema. Or I would like a hug from my dad or my friend, or the dog at the park. And I feel like the dogs are friendlier than other people.

[00:46:31] That's another story. So I do love that concept. I'm curious what you say to that, how, I guess, we properly communicate. I say that in air quotes to someone who, I don't need your advice. I don't need you to fix it. Can you just hold me? Because a baby can't say-- it's crying and it can't say, "Just hold me." But we intuitively know that's what it means.

[00:46:53] I feel like I'm rambling because this is in my head. I feel like we're all just doing each other such a disservice, and I don't think we mean to hurt each other as much as we do. We're just ill-equipped.

[00:47:05] Reema: Mm-hmm. Yeah. It's such a relief to know that it's enough to just hold someone and listen. Because that takes the pressure off of us too if we're on the other side. Because we're like, "Oh gosh, what do I say?" My friend's upset, or my partner's upset. Or, no, I hope I say the right thing. But it's like we can release that. Because just letting someone express their grief or whatever it is, is so huge.

[00:47:35] And it sounds so easy, but we often don't do that. We jump in and we try to say something, or we're just thinking about how am I going to respond instead of just listening. So even that is a practice, to just let ourselves, let the person express their emotions and soften and just give off that energy that I'm here, this affection, this tenderness, this love is here. And you can say what you need to say or cry, and we don't have to have the perfect words, or we don't have to have any words.

[00:48:10] Kate: And if we're feeling overwhelmed or exhausted and don't even know where to start with a practice, with exercise or practice in your book, is there-- I say, Reema, I've got five minutes. I'm getting ready to go perform. I really want to be on my Sting A-game. And I'm feeling a little anxious.

[00:48:31] What's a practice or something that comes to mind, where you'd say, "Oh, let's try this." Or if you were backstage with me, I'm not going on the Hollywood Bowl stage singing for anybody but another kind of performance. What would you say to me to calm me down, but also get me in my power and to be present?

[00:48:50] Reema: I would have you take your hands to your belly and breathe into your belly. As you inhale, just let the belly expand out, and as you exhale, just feel the belly naturally move in. And if it's comfortable, breathe through your nose. Inhale, expand the belly, and exhale, let the belly move in.

[00:49:16] And you can keep one hand at your belly and take one hand to your chest, upper chest, and try to-- the chest moves, but try to make it minimal. So really, most of the movement is in the belly. Inhale. Belly expands out. Exhale. Belly moves in. And just that can be really effective. We can add another layer to the deep breathing.

[00:49:46] So the yogis, their awareness was so refined that they felt the vibration of the breath and they felt that the vibration of the inhale is so, the sound so. And the vibration of the exhale is the sound hum. So you can add that to your breath. So as you inhale, hum as you exhale. And "so" it comes from the Sanskrit root sa, which means to be, to have power, to have agency. So the "so" on the inhale, it connects you to your inner power.

[00:50:29] And hum in Sanskrit, that means to let go, to release, to abandon. So with every exhale, you can release something you might be holding that you don't need. So with the inhale connecting to your power, your inner power; hum, with the exhale, just releasing.

[00:50:55] So do that for a couple of breaths. So with the inhale belly breath. Hum with the exhale. There's another layer to the so hum. So hum, it also means I am that, coming back to consciousness. I'm not my body and not my mind. I am that consciousness. I am that infinite field of possibility. I am pure potentiality.

[00:51:22] So as you breathe so hum, I am that. I'm not bound by any thoughts or emotions or the changes in my body. Whatever's happening in my inner world or my outer world, this truth never changes. I am that. Pure potential. I'm a field of possibility. I'm consciousness.

[00:51:48] Kate: Ooh. What are the sensations in the body about? Ooh.

[00:51:53] Reema: Yeah. Just a few minutes of that can be so effective. Yeah.

[00:52:03] Kate: And if we're feeling, oh, I'm not great at this, or I feel a little uncomfortable, what do you say to that? Ooh.

[00:52:12] Reema: You can be uncomfortable. You can let that discomfort be and watch it come, watch it abide, and also watch it change. Because at the dimension of thoughts and emotions, nothing is permanent. That stuff is always changing. So you can let it be, let it come. Look at it, feel it, and watch it shift.

[00:52:41] Watch it go. When it's shifting and going, try not to grasp. Every thought, emotion, sensation, feeling, it has a lifespan. It arises. It abides. It dissolves. So you can allow that process.

[00:53:04] Kate: I feel much calmer.

[00:53:06] Reema: Hmm.

[00:53:06] Kate: And that I'm not doing it alone. I do feel another force and power here with me and infusing through me, which feels really intense and beautiful, and I feel like, oh, I don't have to do it all myself, even hug myself or love myself or get all the words right. There's another power here that's going to let the words flow while I'm on stage.

[00:53:31] I'm feeling that very strongly. This is beautiful. I love this new-- I have all my vocal warmups and tips and tricks and techniques, but I've not done this, been taught this, or I've ever done this. And I'm going to put this into my arsenal before I do anything. And how simple and easy and powerful just that one practice in a few minutes is.

[00:53:51] I love that we're doing it here live so that people can feel and experience. And not feel overwhelmed, or I don't have time, or that's too hard, or I'm not good at that. I'm like, "Hey, I'm here to show and tell you this is simple and it works." Thank you. Wow.

[00:54:07] Reema: Yeah. And I'm glad that you feel that power of doing it together because I don't know if you got to that part of the book yet, but I have a whole chapter where I talk about, in Sanskrit is called mitras.

[00:54:19] Kate: Yes.

[00:54:20] Reema: And mitra means a friend. And I really encourage people who want to go through the practices of this book to do this with a friend, team up with a friend, and go through the book with at least one friend, one or two friends. And that makes all the practices more powerful and effective, to share the journey.

[00:54:42] And yoga, it's interesting, it's very personal. And we go so deep within ourselves. But at the same time, it wasn't meant to be practiced alone. It was always passed down in community. So the yogis always had friends and colleagues around them.

[00:55:00] So when you practice, whatever comes up in your practices, you have an outlet. This happened. I don't understand this. This happened, or this question arose, or I want to debate this philosophy or this idea, or try to understand something. And you have your community around you, your mitras, your friends around you. And so that's a huge part of the journey too, is to practice together.

[00:55:25] Kate: I wish we had you all the time, but we do have you right here. So I see why so many celebrities and superstars and high performers have hired you and worked with you, because just even in a few minutes, I feel a deep transformation and the quality and tone of your voice and what you're saying, but again, the presence, the energy. You've done the work, and it's clear.

[00:55:49] And so that's just such a message too, and that it does have this cumulative effect. And I want to ask you about your book and what you learned about yourself writing this gorgeous book and in this journey. Because so much has gone into this, and I think writing my book, so many lessons and things that came about for me in such a beautiful way.

[00:56:10] But the power of discipline and the discipline that it took for me to be a competitive swimmer and how that served me. And writing 90,000 words in three months, during the first three months of COVID lockdown, and just showing myself that I really can do anything that I put my heart and mind to. And that was such a powerful takeaway for me.

[00:56:31] So I'm curious to hear what you learned or a takeaway that you have. I know there's a million things, but just anything that comes to mind. Because I think that's such a beautiful thing. And then everyone, think of a project that you've done and a takeaway that you've had. It helps us really celebrate ourselves and our journey.

[00:56:49] Reema: Yeah, thanks for asking that. I feel like I learned to persevere, because this has been-- it really took years. And just giving myself that time and space to write this book was just that. I could have given up many times along the way or just been like, this is too hard, or I'm not sure I can actually do this. But to just keep trying.

[00:57:14] I wrote so many drafts of this, and it was such a balance because I didn't want to write a book just on yoga philosophy, and I didn't want to write a memoir. The book is really a balance of my story and the ancient wisdom and the practices that the readers can do to apply the wisdom to their lives.

[00:57:37] But getting that balance, it took many drafts. And I feel like when you're really determined to do something, the universe does support. Especially when you have the right motivation, because I feel like since the beginning, I just felt the suffering that so many people experience in their minds.

[00:58:02] And having a 13-year-old daughter and knowing that her classmates-- I've taught yoga in her school, and just seeing even children, how they're suffering in their minds. And really wanting to create something that can really help us with our anxieties and our depression and our anger.

[00:58:21] And just to have that motivation that it wasn't about me. I really wanted to create something that could help ease people's minds. And I think that that helped and that blessed me with an agent and a publisher and getting their support to make it really happen.

[00:58:41] Kate: Yeah, it's such a gift to the world, and I can tell that you've just poured everything into it. I would just love, even-- I want to talk to you forever and just experience your energy and your presence forever. But I'm mindful of time and conscious of time. Now I'm like, I'm curious your thoughts on time, by the way, now that we're talking about that.

[00:58:59] But if you want to address that or just any final thought, I think I'm called to ask too about, I don't want to dwell on this, but a chaotic world right now, an uncertain world. I'm experiencing some of my own fears and anxieties and a lot of others are too. Anything from your consciousness-- I love this new language that you've given me.

[00:59:19] I was about to say from your heart, but from your consciousness that you would love to share about any of that. You've already given us so much hope, but I just want that one more Reema takeaway that I can just hold close to my chest and take it with me everywhere I go.

[00:59:33] Reema: One of the beautiful teachings of the ancient yogis was all about giving. Because we live in this world and we, or even I feel anxiety. I want to get a practice. And they turn everything upside down. I even say like, if there's something you're needing or wanting, give it away first and then it'll come back to you even bigger.

[00:59:58] Of course, there's so much going on in the world and so much of us are feeling anxious and anger and all these feelings are coming up. But if there's a child or a neighbor that you know is struggling with anxiety, maybe go to their home and have a conversation with them and just talk to them and help them feel better. And it'll come back to you.

[01:00:23] Those eternal truths, it's just the way that things work. So to notice what we do have control over and to recognize there's so much we don't have control over, but there actually is so much that we do have control over. And we can start to shift things within ourselves and be able to give more to our surroundings. And that's going to help us the most.

[01:00:46] Kate: Oh, thank you for saying that, that there's so much we can control because usually you do hear the latter and people dwelling on that. There's so much we can control and even start making those lists and then doing those things on the list and starting with so many exercises and practices in your book.

[01:01:03] Just even the art of breathing, the exercises we did hear and demonstrated for everybody today. And then that puts you in the consciousness of I am in control. I do have the power, and we can make a difference. Just little you and me. And I just want to offer that to everybody listening and watching this, how powerful they are. And that we are in this together and how much we can control. Nobody ever says that. We always say, "I can't control that." So focusing on what we can control, which is a lot.

[01:01:36] Reema: Which is a lot. And it's what we're giving to the world. And I think so many of us, we want to change the whole world. There's so much wrong with the world really. But in the book, I talk about Svadharma, the Sanskrit word, and it points to our specific gifts and the specific gifts we were born to contribute to the world and how these practices can help us clear our mind.

[01:02:03] We might already know what our gifts are, but there's always room to update and refine our contributions to the world. And so with yoga and all of these practices, it's like we're cultivating that courage and clarity and vitality to give. Whatever our gifts are, whatever we were born to contribute, the practices are going to help us become better at giving, and ultimately that's going to help us. Our anxiety is going to lessen so much when we're centered and we're fully, wholeheartedly giving our gifts.

[01:02:40] Kate: I love from this perspective because everything, especially American society is monetize this and scale that and make money. And I get that. I love money. I love nice things. I want comfort. I want to live in a nice home. And also doing things that you may not get paid at first in ways that you're giving, whether it's your time, your project, whatever.

[01:03:02] I know you did a ton of things for free before writing this book. And newsflash to people who don't know, books, even with traditional publishers are not huge money makers unless you're a huge celebrity or writing about a certain political figure. We really do this for the art of giving our passion, our wisdom, our knowledge, our hearts, our consciousness to help others.

[01:03:25] Things that have dramatically changed our lives, we want to share it. And so I honor you for doing that. And I think you're just reminding me too, because trust is a big spiritual practice of mine. And sometimes I am working so hard for no money at something, but trusting that, like you said, it's going to come in infinity fold.

[01:03:45] And I think way more than if I set out from day one or set out from day one to only make money doing something. So I think that's a good reminder because I do want more people, especially women, are coming to mind too, to be doing their creative joys and pleasures and creating just for the fun of it.

[01:04:05] You may never make a penny, or you may make a billion dollars, and you can really change the world with that. So I just offer that up. I could go on and on, but I think that's something that I'm noticing in our culture too, that I wish was a little different. But I'm going to focus on what I can control and do it my way and be an example of that and be able to tell that story.

[01:04:24] Because I think people, sometimes we just make it look easy, or they think that we have all kinds of support, or we are making a ton of money from something. And so being able to tell that story, like, I did this for years without making a dime, and it was so worth it. So anyway, I could go on and on, but I'll stop.

[01:04:41] Reema: And anything is possible. If we need to keep our part-time or full-time job, time expands when we're so focused and determined to make something happen that if we can still find two hours in the day to work on that project and build and silly create a different life.

[01:05:00] Kate: Thank you for saying that because I do hear that a lot. Like, well, I don't have time, or, who's going to do this? And even if it's 10 minutes a day and just expand on that. Watch time expand. So anything else before I let you go? You've been so generous with your time. I love this conversation. I don't want it to end, but I am mindful that we have other things to do. Any other final thought for us that's coming to mind?

[01:05:21] Reema: Well, just Actually, one more final thought. If you get this book and you want to practice with a mitra, with a friend, with the community, if you have a hard time finding someone, I'm offering 12-week courses online where we go through the book together as a community and I hook you up with mitras as well.

[01:05:40] I'll tell you something. So our mitras become our accountability partners, and research has found that when you have an accountability partner, you're 65% more likely to reach your goals. When you have an accountability partner that you have a weekly check-in with, that percentage skyrockets to 95%. When you do something alone, 10% success rate.

[01:06:11] It's so real. I've witnessed that so many times. I've experienced that myself, just the power of our practices magnifies with community. So if you want to tap into the community I've cultivated, we do 12 week courses. And you can join with a mitra, with a friend, or I'll link you with a friend.

[01:06:32] And we spend one week on each chapter of the book, and we go through the practices together. And then you have your mitra that you check in with during the week. And after 12 weeks, we've gone through the whole book. So anyone from anywhere is welcome to join us. It'll be online.

[01:06:49] Kate: Okay, sign me up, and I'm going to tell my friends as well because I do. I want some accountability partners, and I want to check in. And I want to talk about this stuff instead of all the other nonsense that people are wanting to talk about. I feel transformed from this one conversation, so sign me up. We're going to put all the info in the show notes so everybody else can sign up.

[01:07:08] And please join me and Reema. She so generously created this beautiful community for all of us to connect and to heal and evolve, and it's so remarkable the power of sticking to our mission too, and that even one decision to really stick with something and to transmute our anger and our difficult emotions and not disown them or act like-- I think a lot of times too, you're like, "Oh yeah, I not upset anymore." Or, "I don't get stressed out anymore."

[01:07:35] Someone said to me recently like, "Oh, you seem so happy, but you sound so upset today." And I'm like, "Yeah, I'm human." And sometimes we get upset. And again, it's the language that people use. So these conversations, I know, will change the world, and I'm just so grateful to have you here today. The Yogi's Way, everybody pick it up, and let's all join. We'll be mitras together. My accent is so bad when I say so many words.

[01:08:02] Reema: That's okay. No worries.

[01:08:04] Kate: Oh my gosh. Reminds me when I'm international traveling and I suddenly show how American I am. So thank you everyone for bearing with me with that, but really check this out, and then let's all join this community together so that we can really just help the betterment of the world and community just one conversation at a time.

[01:08:22] Reema: Let's do it.

[01:08:23] Kate: Yeah, yeah. Thank you so much for being here and writing such a gorgeous book. We appreciate you.

[01:08:27] Reema: Thank you for having me. It's been so fun to talk with you. Thank you.

[01:08:31] Kate: It's been so fun, and it's been so fun with all of you as well. Thank you so much for being here. We'll see you next week on Rawish. Bye, everybody.

[01:08:39] Reema: Bye.