How Writing Became a Tool for Rebellion with Sonya Matejko

[00:00:01] Sonya: The blank page can be intimidating. But once you fill it with your thoughts and feelings, it takes the weight off of your shoulders and that chaotic mess that might feel like it's in your mind or in your heart lessens a little bit. And moving through the rest of your day or week and lifetime could get a little bit easier.

[00:00:20] Whatever their creativity looks like or feels like is enough. It's okay if it is one person who resonates, a million people who resonate. But the most important thing is that it resonates with you. Be who you are meant to be by acknowledging who you are, and that could look however you need it to. Whatever that result is enough. There's no wrong. There's no right. It is just you.

[00:00:58] Kate: Welcome back to Rawish with Kate Eckman. Such a deep special episode for you here today. I have an incredible author and poet on the show, and I read her book last night on the couch in the dark with the candles going and was so sobbing. So we all know an emotional girl here, and I'm a crier, but it wasn't a boo-hoo.

[00:01:22] It was a, wow, I am feeling so deeply, which is my jam, which is my goal here for everyone, to get more in touch with their feelings and feel things. And her book, Everlasting Spring: 101 Poems for Every Season of Life, is going to make you feel deeper, take you on a journey. I really was experiencing all these different phases of my childhood, my adolescence, my adult life, and just all the phases of life, all the seasons of life, all in one gorgeous, stunning book.

[00:01:54] I have a page marked here. I just opened when I was talking to Sonya Matejko, who is here, our guest. I'm going to bring her in a second. I was talking to her and I just opened the book to a poem, and it was my favorite poem that I read last night. And so it's just a sign to read it to all of you. But let me shut up and bring in Sonya. Thank you so much for being here today.

[00:02:14] Sonya: Thank you so much for having me, Kate. I'm excited to get raw and real with you.

[00:02:18] Kate: Thank you so much. And I was sharing with Sonya before we hit Record that the universe is always right on time and brings in the exact people that we need to meet for whatever reason. And anyone who can open up my heart and soul through their art is my kind of gal. And I said to her, "Your book felt like you wrote it just for me and also that I wrote this book."

[00:02:43] I could relate to so much of it. And it really is just that reminder of how important it is to create art, whatever that is, and to be bold and fierce and courageous enough to create and put it out into the world whether one person sees it or millions see it because of how it can affect others in a positive way and open us up. And you gave me the gift of wanting to be more creative and wanting to start writing poetry again. And so thank you so much.

[00:03:11] Sonya: I love to hear that, and I hope that it inspires you to do that poetry right after this interview and others to just express themselves and to feel bold enough to do that and recognize how powerful it can be, both for themselves and the relationships that they have with other people.

[00:03:27] Kate: Yeah. And you started this poetry journey young, like I did. You were just 12 years old and already encouraged by your mother to not just write poetry, but to put it out and share it with people. Can you share a little bit about that just to get all of our creative juices flowing?

[00:03:44] Sonya: Oh gosh. 12 years old, back in middle school, which I swear is one of the most difficult times for a young woman. I feel like I had no idea who I was, what I wanted, or how to belong into a world that felt like just that really, really difficult for me at that time.

[00:04:02] And so I was feeling so much and I had nowhere to put it. Especially at that time, I feel like I didn't have as strong bonds with friends, and it was really me against the world. And so I returned to poetry and I collected so many poems. Actually, the week before the book published, I went into my childhood bedroom in my parents' home and was looking through all of my old poetry.

[00:04:28] And first of all, I'm very glad that I had gotten better at my craft because they were quite funny. But it's just wild how much we can feel from such a young age. And if we never feel encouraged to say it out loud, imagine getting to adulthood and still carrying all those feelings without ever expressing them.

[00:04:48] I'm just so glad that I had that outlet for myself, especially at a time when I needed a way to make sense of things. And maybe I still walked into adulthood not being completely shared and completely confident, but I do think writing gave me an outlet to release, to connect, to just get to know myself a little bit, and to heal through the troubling times at adolescence.

[00:05:13] Kate: Yeah. Thank you for saying that and sharing that because I think that's what breaks my heart about these generations now, is that the outlet or coping mechanism, or lack thereof, creativity, if you will, is just getting on a platform and consuming content from. The fact that my young nephew knows about Erewhon Hailey Bieber smoothies that are only in Los Angeles and he's in Cincinnati, Ohio, and he knows all these things going on.

[00:05:42] And I'm like, "How do you know that?" YouTube. And I hope he is learning some educational things that are healthy for his brain on there, but if he knows about the Erewhon smoothies, what else does he know about that maybe isn't so harmless? We didn't have devices growing up. My art is writing.

[00:06:01] I'm horrible at drawing and painting and those kinds of arts. And so my art has been writing and now speaking and conversations. My art is the art of a beautiful conversation. And so I think that's what you opened up in this book, that reminder. And whoever is listening or watching, however old you are, now is the time, even if you do it regularly, to sit down and write in your journal, write a poem.

[00:06:26] My mom even, 80 years old, wrote me a poem for my birthday, and it was really cute and meaningful. And I think that can carry more weight than the diamond necklace or the pair of shoes or even the fancy dinner. And what would you say to people who may say, "I don't have time for that?" Or, "I'm not very good, so why bother?" Or, "What's the point of spending all this time and energy and money and effort creating something? If no one's going to see it, no one's going to like it." Or, "Even people may say mean things or they may criticize me. Why bother?"

[00:07:01] Sonya: I think a couple of things. So one way is, yes, if you are going to publish it online, there is bound to be people who either don't connect to it or have maybe some mean things to say about it. And for the ones that don't connect, that's okay because there are people who do connect. And so you're writing for those people and to create those connections.

[00:07:19] And if it connected with everyone, it would it be meaningful. So you have to remember that. You're creating it for those who need to hear it. And getting it out there enables that, and it creates that connection. And then I would turn the mean comments into an exercise and write about that.

[00:07:37] Write about how that makes you feel when people say something that hurts your feelings or writing about how they're wrong and empower others. Because even if someone else isn't getting online comments based on their creativity or their art, they're probably getting negative feedback in another sense. Maybe it's on their recipe that they posted on Instagram, or it's a coworker who's saying mean things.

[00:08:00] If you're writing about how you manage and navigate negativity in your creative arts, someone else can use that in a way that they're getting negative feedback. So it still enables you to help people feel not alone in what they're facing. But then the other hand is you don't always have to be creative out in a public setting.

[00:08:19] So one way that I really like to encourage, which you reminded me when you said your mom wrote you a poem is something that I actively promote, is people writing letters to their loved ones. So you can write a poem or you can just write a letter. And one that's like very simple that I like to do is writing about a memory for someone.

[00:08:39] So bringing it back to something that was really special with you and a loved one, whether it's a friend, a partner, or a family member, and bringing back into that moment and then just sending that letter in the mail because how often are you getting something in your mailbox that is, one, handwritten, two, not a bill, or a coupon or something.

[00:08:58] And that allows you to be creative because you're still telling a story. You're talking about a memory, which is going to make you happy, and it's going to make that person receiving it really unexpectedly surprised to find something like that in their mailbox. And so that's a fun way to be creative that I invite people to do that doesn't require you to publish a personal essay or poetry online. It keeps it personal, but it still allows you to be self-expressive.

[00:09:24] Kate: Thank you for sharing this so much. You're lighting up my soul. I don't know what it is about you. I can tell how connected you are, and it is your writing and you exploring your feelings and getting in there because you're just opening me up. And so it's that reminder.

[00:09:38] Sometimes I feel like I got to say things 10 times. And listen, as a former QVC presenter where we were taught to say the same three selling features over and over and over again, and I would train people, like, you're going to feel annoying saying the selling feature again. But people have to hear it so many times.

[00:09:57] And that's how I feel right now. Guys, we got to be feeling our feelings. We got to keep creating art. The world is insane. You have to keep creating your art, whatever it is, whether you're making no money or you're making millions, whether you're inspiring one or 1 million. And I just see what you've done for me having known you now for 10 minutes, having just read your book last night.

[00:10:19] And it has just opened up my heart and given me even more permission to be creative and to create art. And it's reminding me of Kendrick Lamar's Super Bowl halftime performance, which is the most watched Super Bowl halftime ever. Just surpassed Michael Jackson from 1993.

[00:10:35] And the thing I'm noticing about this performance is that maybe half of the people saying it's the worst ever, saying they didn't get it, it was horrible, I thought, that is true art. A lot of people aren't going to get it. A lot of people aren't going to like it. But the people who do get it, the people who do understand, the people who want to go research deeper, there was some symbolism there.

[00:11:00] I'm not quite sure what it was, but let me find out. That is an artist, and that's the kind of art I want to create. Again, he's a genius and that's on a whole other level. And it's just interesting the censorship and things happening right now, and you can find a way to make a very, very bold, clear message and maybe not come out directly and say exactly what you're saying and leave it up to imagination.

[00:11:27] And so that's a dramatic example that's really impactful. And your book is just as dramatic because it's like, whoa. And with poetry, you really can make it whatever you want it to be. You can make meaning from it. And I think that's what you've done, is it's like, here's some words. That's what I'm doing with this show. Here's some words. Here's some conversations and insights. I'm going to allow you to make meaning of it. And that's what you've done here.

[00:11:53] Sonya: I love that example that you just gave with the Super Bowl too, because something I was thinking about when you were talking is like sharing your art is also a rebellion, and that's the strongest thing that we can do right now, especially when the world feels messy, chaotic, and no dots connect. Nothing makes sense right now.

[00:12:11] And so to share your art is a rebellion. And what is more rebellious than sharing your feelings or sharing what you think right now, whether you're hurting, whether you're confused. Sharing that openly is very, very strong and makes a statement.

[00:12:26] And of course, like you said, it's going to connect with maybe half people and half not. But in a world especially that tries to mute your feelings or tries to tell you to look on the positive side or to not be political, or there's always these excuses to dilute your feelings, and so the bravest thing you can do is be open about them.

[00:12:48] Kate: Yeah, and just be who you really are. And I think people struggle with that because they don't know who they really are. They've never dared. I have to go back to what we're taught as kids in our immediate families, in our culture, in our society, in our town, in our country, wherever that is we're taught. And most of us are taught to people please and to tone it down and to be "polite" and to be "nice," especially as women.

[00:13:15] But we're never taught that that comes with a cost and what that cost is. And it's always to the detriment of ourselves. And I've always been a rebellious spirit. That's the Aquarius in me. But also, I never felt like I fit in my family or my town. As my aunt said, "You outgrew Cincinnati when you are four years old."

[00:13:36] And I'm like, "Yeah, because it just--" I think a lot of places have this fixed mentality, and I was just always questioning so many things, even marriage with children. Why do we have to do that? Why is everybody doing that? And it seems like they're not giving it much thought. That's a really big deal.

[00:13:52] So I want to explore this idea of rebellion. And a poem that stuck out for me last night in your book, it's in the spring section, the spring phase of the book, which is divided up into, summer, autumn, winter, spring, and everlasting spring. Such a beautiful book, and I love that it's just so dainty and gorgeous. Throw this in your bag and your carry on. I'm already planning my next trip to Japan, and I imagine waking up and having this and opening to a page and reading some poems and having my tea and just feeling so blissed out.

[00:14:24] So thank you. This is a Dreamer's Rebellion, and it's page 105. I hope everybody picks up a copy. It says, "Too many spend their whole lives dreaming without ever really living." And I'm just so glad that isn't you, so glad it isn't us, because we are the ones who dare to write our reality, to constantly rewrite our stories, and to live out possibilities that seemed impossible because we are the ones who risk thinking differently, tiptoeing at uncertainty. And while some may call us naive, I call us brave for rebelling against a world that tries to limit us when we are in fact limitless. Girl.

[00:15:16] Sonya: Targeting of my doctorate.

[00:15:19] Kate: You can tell I feel that in my soul and why we need permission to feel and to feel deeply and to say, yes, I can do that. And my words matter, and my thoughts matter, and my feelings matter. How were you courageous enough to even put this together and put it out there?

[00:15:40] Sonya: Oh, gosh, that's a great question. I think some of the courageous, what I've noticed is I've closed my eyes and just jumped at one point. I felt like I had to do that because I am an overthinker, nonstop, and I have had excuses for years. I have talked about publishing this book for decades, and eventually I just had to do it and I just had to go. It was almost like I had no choice but to do it.

[00:16:09] And so that came with first publishing it on Instagram, just putting it out there. And then with publishing the book, just going for it. And that is a scary thing, but once you're out there, you recognize like, oh, I'm not falling to the ground. I'm not failing. Or I can actually find my way.

[00:16:26] And I think the scariest part is just starting. And I think that that actually is like a piece of advice that I got a while ago that I've always really loved, is that it's okay to be a beginner because everyone who's done something incredible didn't wake up and just become that. Everyone who we admire had to start and be a beginner before they became an expert.

[00:16:47] And in the same way, I think for a while, my excuse was I need the first book to be the most amazing thing that ever hits bookshelves. And if it isn't, then I'm a failure and I think I'll never do another. And then I had to reframe that of like, just jump. Just try the first one and enjoy it also.

[00:17:06] Bravery is a tricky thing and sometimes it's a little bit of faking it and then convincing yourself and seeing through experience that like, oh, you are always capable of doing it. And it was just putting one foot in front of the other to see.

[00:17:22] Kate: So beautiful. I think something that came to mind while you were talking is that it's enough. My coach says this to me all the time. It's enough if I have this vision alone in isolation. That vision, that dream, that work alone by myself is enough. And it's that if you build it, they will come because that's our culture too.

[00:17:44] It's like, oh gosh, what will people think or say or the likes or lack thereof, the engagement or lack thereof. Or I need to prove myself or impress this person? Or I'm this established media person. I can't put out a product that's not going to do well. And it's like, first of all, it's not probably going to blow up in week one or month one, or maybe even year one.

[00:18:04] But for me, this project, Rawish, I see how it has transformed me. And why do we belittle that? I'm sure your book transformed you. It's like the act of actually sitting down and doing the work and then putting it out into the world. I watch my episodes every week and I just said to one of my guests last night, who's a friend of mine, "The guests on my show have completely transformed my life."

[00:18:30] Your stories, your vulnerability, your heart, your mission, the work you're doing in the world, the person that you are choosing to be in the world has completely transformed my life. I have struggled recently with the fires aftermath in Los Angeles and just all the hatred that I'm seeing in our world, and it breaks my heart.

[00:18:48] I wish I wasn't so empathic a lot of the time. I wish I didn't cry at some of the evil things that I see online. But hurts me deeply. And then I will get on and either do a pre-call or record an episode with someone like you and it just makes me believe so strongly in humanity again.

[00:19:06] And more importantly, it doesn't just make me crazy enough to think that we can change the world together. It makes me confident that we will change the world together by doing our work and then celebrating it and talking about it and letting people know about it. We're so much more powerful.

[00:19:25] We all know that just science and energetics, that love is so much greater frequency and vibration than hate. Authenticity, greatest vibration that there is. And I think that's why I had such an emotional reaction to your work because it was in that frequency of authenticity.

[00:19:42] Sonya: Yeah. And it breaks the ice, again, what we were talking about, how we're always told to be polite and speak quiet and things like this. But when we see our feelings or our experiences in someone else's words, it not only makes us want to connect with that person. It makes us want to do something about it.

[00:19:58] So it makes us want to go out there and make a change, whether it is just a change within ourselves or to reconnect with someone else. And it's like it gives momentum when you know that you're not the only person feeling a certain way, rather than almost just sitting on your feelings or not even looking at your feelings. So there's such power in knowing how you feel and in knowing someone else feels the same.

[00:20:21] Kate: Yeah, I think sometimes we go through something, usually it's something challenging, and we think we're the only ones dealing with this. And then when someone else is expressing that same emotion or someone is able to articulate the words in your heart that you haven't been able to express even to yourself yet, it gives you that permission and it opens you up and it makes you feel safe and seen.

[00:20:42] And you even use some of that language in there. So it's like, I'm feeling safe and seen and heard, and then you're expressing that in the poem and that we're not alone. Right now two dear friends that I've known since childhood who watched the show and are so supportive of the show and me, one is a mom of three and she just shared with me that her sixth graders classmate died by suicide and having to have that conversation with her child.

[00:21:09] That's one challenge on top of everything else. And then she still has a career, but she's a very creative person and she's one of the friends I would always share my poetry with. And she was one of the friends who took the time and care to send me so many care packages in college, and we would write letters. She's that creative, thoughtful person.

[00:21:28] And in motherhood, sometimes that gets put on the shelf because you have these other responsibilities. So I'd love if you could speak to busy moms. I have another brilliant friend who is not a mother and she's blessed and fortunate enough to be retired in her 40s. And she's so brilliant and, yeah, I push her too. Like, oh my gosh, I want to see your work out in the world. She's a beautiful writer. And so Lainey and Allison, I'm calling you out, and I love you both.

[00:21:57] What would you say to Lainey and Allison, the busy mother and Allison, the retiree, both of whom are so brilliant and creative? And I would love both of them to write a book, for instance. So maybe if they're having a little hesitation, what would you say?

[00:22:11] Sonya: Yeah. So one way is to reframe being creative, less as a task and more as a form of self-care. So in those few moments that you maybe have when you're waiting for carpool or when you're waiting at the doctor's appointment, or just those little instances, even if it's five minutes, just spill it out, see what happens.

[00:22:29] It could be in the notes app in your phone. It could be a little pocket notebook that you carry around. It could be even just recording a voice note and then using AI to transcribe it later. Even just those five minutes of expressing yourself and seeing what comes out, whether it's a poem, whether it's a prompt, whether it's a story idea, or an outline for a story about motherhood that you want to talk about or a children's book.

[00:22:52] I could go on and on about ideas that could pop up, but even those five minutes could make such a big difference. And it could be something that you go back to later and maybe there's a moment where you have a little bit more than five minutes. And then you can nurture that idea and see what feels most exciting and what you would be most jazzed to share with your kids down the road.

[00:23:13] What creation or art would you be so excited to turn to your child a few years later and be like, "Look at what mommy created." What speaks to your soul that will speak to them as well. That's one way to do it. And then another way is to consume art. So one of the best ways to learn how you can put art out into the world is to see what inspires you.

[00:23:33] That could be reading. That could be going to galleries. That could be following different poets or photographers and creators online and just seeing what do you look at? And you're like, "I could create that, or I could do that, or I want to do that." And again, there's not going to be hours of free time that any busy mom is going to have, so it's like in that little tiny part of your day that you have for yourself, look for inspiration or inspire yourself and think about how that can inspire your children down the road.

[00:24:05] Kate: Hmm. That's so beautiful. You brought up something that was so life-changing for me in college in creative writing. Actually, I don't even think it was creative writing. I think it was a poetry class. Yes, it was. Gosh, I'm feeling old now, but I'm like, that's what it was. But as you were speaking, this is why I love these conversations too, my brain went to this art museum at Penn State where I attended undergrad and they took us there and our task was to find a piece of art and write a poem about it.

[00:24:32] And I remember seeing this abstract art piece, and it was a face and it had just these big patches of red in different places on the face. And so for me, and I was feeling very heartbroken by the boyfriend. I'm 20 years old or whatever. Our 20-year-old bad boy not treating me right type of situation. So glad I don't do that anymore. And I remember writing a poem and it was so good without me even really knowing what I know now about what that did for me.

[00:24:58] But getting those feelings and emotions out of the body because that can really mess up our system, our nervous system, is bottling and suppressing and numbing. So expressing my feelings in that art piece, writing a poem to him that I never gave him. But that poem did end up in my little poetry book that I wrote a few years later, and it was just such a beautiful moment too.

[00:25:20] Yeah, at the time I didn't think I felt proud of myself. I feel proud of that version of myself now that I was able to express in a healthy way because I'm seeing with kids now, especially kids raised by parents who aren't in touch with their feelings, which is most of them, sadly, the kids don't know what to do with those emotions.

[00:25:37] And now they're not necessarily going to the art museum and writing poetry. They're playing video games and they're on their device. And so I hope that people are taking some of that old school inspiration too for the kids now, or your niece and nephew, and doing some of those activities with them because you see how much it light kids up, it lights them up to be in their creativity or even playing Telestration with my dad over Christmas. I'd never seen my dad draw before, and it was just such a beautiful way to connect on a more personal level.

[00:26:07] Sonya: Yeah, I also did a painting, and I'm not a painter. Writing is my thing and definitely can't draw or paint, but did that with my mom and my sister the other day. And I turned around and I saw that my mom was amazing at painting. And I'm like, "Where has this been?" I feel like you just need an invitation from yourself to let that creativity out.

[00:26:27] And sometimes that can come later in life. Sometimes that's early in life. But hopefully taking your eyes off the screen and trying to look for that inspiration out into the world can help people find that courage. And it reminds me of a TED Talk that I actually really loved.

[00:26:43] I saw it in person. It was TEDx Vienna, I think two years ago. And something that he talked about was doing a noticing workout. And so that is just going outside, taking a walk, and just noticing the world around you. So no AirPods, no distraction. Although I love listening to this podcast while I'm walking, this is a moment for just silence, see the world, and look at the things that you notice around you.

[00:27:10] So one particular exercise he talks about is like, can you find smiley faces on the sidewalk, in the walls? And then you start to see them everywhere. Or all the things that are the color red. And you just start to look around those things.

[00:27:22] And just that hyper awareness can also inspire you and just make you see things that you normally wouldn't every day. And I've loved taking that on to hikes or city walks and just taking my eyes away from my phone or my attention away from whatever I'm listening to and just look.

[00:27:42] Kate: Hmm. As you're doing that, because I take my daily walks at Holmby Park, down the street here. And it is the most gorgeous park in all of Los Angeles, I think, the most stunning, unique, beautiful trees and roses of every color and the most adorable dogs you will ever see. And I am obsessed with dogs.

[00:28:00] I can't believe I don't have one right now. I can't wait to get one. And so I did that the other day when I was feeling a little down and out on Los Angeles. It's been a very, very heavy time here. And it is that escapist feeling of like, I just want to get out of here. And so it was that practice of going to the park and being in nature and taking the steps and resetting my system.

[00:28:22] And it was a noticing/gratitude walk. You see me closing my eyes if you're watching on YouTube. And just seeing the structure of the trees. And then there's the Spelling mansion, Aaron Spelling from 90210. His old home is right there. So even just noticing the explicit landscaping, noticing the gorgeous sky, noticing my favorite weather of all times, 70 and sunny with a gentle breeze.

[00:28:45] Oh my gosh, how am I experiencing this right now and the rest of the country it's so cold and miserable? And taking that in as noticing and giving thanks. Because sometimes it be like, it's so expensive to live here in the traffic, and you throw your hands in the air and then it's like, ooh, this is worth the taxes. And this tree, I will pretend all my tax dollars go to your upkeep.

[00:29:05] Thank you. I'm grateful. And it sounds so silly, but then I think of, going back to poetry, so many of my favorite poems, I have written being in nature or inspired by nature, Mount Rainier outside of Seattle with my cousins, and writing about this snow-capped mountain and this simple, beautiful moment of solitude.

[00:29:22] And so I hope everyone is on their own little nature journey right now and doing that and noticing. And then I invite you and encourage you to write a poem, whether it's two lines or 200 lines, and send it to me or send it to a friend or to a loved one, and maybe have that be your birthday card or your congratulations note because it is so meaningful and so thoughtful, and I'm learning that being in our creativity and creating art is more important than ever right now, based on what's going on in the world.

[00:29:53] And I think that's my wish and hope for everyone. I only log into Facebook to share my beautiful episodes with all of you. And that's my gift to humanity, is you're all complaining about all these things. Here you go. And I wish that people would promote and share their art on social media rather than their thoughts on political figures they do not care for.

[00:30:18] Sonya: Yeah. If you think about it, when you're reading-- I avoid Facebook like [Inaudible]. But if I do, it instantly puts me in a negative space. But if I were to read someone's-- and I follow so many other poets that I'm inspired by, and when I read one of those, it's the opposite effect.

[00:30:36] It makes me feel seen rather than making me want to close my eyes. It offers this connective point rather than a point of distance, which I think is something that a lot of us are feeling right now, is feeling disconnected from others, from the world, and wanting to just scream but maybe you're reading a poem of someone else screaming exactly what you're feeling, and that is so much more cathartic than an opinion piece that is just going to put me deeper in a negative spiral.

[00:31:06] And so I just also, like you said, encourage people to turn that pain or that confusion, even the good emotions, turn it into art so that other people can also create that connective point. And we feel like we just recognize that a lot of us are going through the same thing.

[00:31:23] Kate: Yeah. And I think a lot of us are feeling a bit disconnected right now, and we haven't spent the creative time connecting to ourselves, and therefore we struggle connecting deeply with others. What would your gentle, loving, caring advice be to someone who is feeling disconnected and maybe they don't even know how disconnected they are? What little loving reminder could you share with them?

[00:31:47] Sonya: I'll share what I often do when I'm in a writer's block, and I'll ask myself, what do I need to hear today? So rather than thinking about what's going to perform well or engage or get likes, I just think about what would I want to tell myself? And then I journal on that and see what comes up. And I'm usually pretty surprised, it might take a few minutes to get into the zone, but then I could get really, really clear about what's blocking me or what's troubling me.

[00:32:15] And I can often find a path forward. It's something that I found going to therapy. I would come in with a problem, but I would then spend 30 minutes talking about it, expressing it, and I would come up with a solution before my therapist would even guide me. And there's such power in us expressing it.

[00:32:32] And if we keep it bottle up, we'll never find those answers. We'll never find that momentum to find our way through. And so just asking yourself what you need to hear, what you feel is really, really powerful. And again, it could be in a journal, and it doesn't need to be something that you share with the world, and the blank page can be intimidating.

[00:32:52] But once you fill it with your thoughts and feelings, it takes the weight off of your shoulders, and that chaotic mess that might feel like it's in your mind or in your heart lessens a little bit and a few things might start to make sense. And moving through the rest of your day or week and lifetime could get a little bit easier.

[00:33:11] Kate: Thanks for that. Your book, I want to just show it again here. If you're listening, please head over to YouTube, Everlasting Spring: 101 Poems for Every Season of Life. And we spoke briefly before we hit Record about what season of life are you in and phases of life. And that feeling of what's next, which is, I think the question. And us Aquarians are always asking. We're always onto the next thing, futuristic thinking.

[00:33:35] But can you speak to us a little bit about seasons of life and phases of life and your book being divided up into the seasons of life and what you want people to take away in terms of that concept and that messaging?

[00:33:49] Sonya: Yeah. So one of the biggest things that I try to put in the book is that you can turn to any page and find hopefully something that you connect to. And what that's supposed to represent is that we're all going through different phases, but we also go through them in different orders. So you might be going through a difficult time that I often put with like a winter phase within the book, where it is about overcoming difficulties and triumphing over your troubles.

[00:34:13] But the person next to you might be going through their phase of summer, which is what I associate with big dreams and activating love and all those big, warm, sunny vibes that we feel in the middle of the year. And sometimes your seasonal shits are short. Maybe you're one week of on an ultimate high, and then something comes along because life is always unpredictable and there's going to be a course change.

[00:34:37] And sometimes those seasons last for years. You might feel like you are on a specific track and then all of a sudden you're not. The track changes and you have to adjust and be agile. And knowing yourself makes it easier to shift through those seasons. So if you can acknowledge how you feel and what your strengths are, even acknowledging those weaknesses, you're able to transition and find your footing again when life changes.

[00:35:03] So for me personally, I grew up being extremely dependent and very much relied on everyone else. And then I had a complete personality shift in my mid-20s when I was living in New York, which I think New York does for a lot of people. It forces them to be bold and adapt.

[00:35:23] And so I went almost on 180 shift from being very dependent to very, very independent. I left corporate and started a business alone. I then left New York and moved abroad alone. Even with the book, I didn't get an agent. I went straight to a publisher and got the book deal on my own.

[00:35:42] So I've become this incredibly independent person, and that's the phase of life that I'm currently in. But now I'm like, "Do I want to be this independent?" Now I'm in this moment where I'm like, "I think I might have gotten too good at being an independent and I want to lean more on people and I want to invite a partner in who can also hold my hand on the hard days, even though I've learned to hold the pen on my hard days."

[00:36:06] And even with motherhood, it's something I want to experience, but I am trying to debate now like, do I experience it independently or do I still stay patient until someone else is in the same seasonal shift and can do that journey with me? So I think all of that to say is to just recognize that things change.

[00:36:26] That is the one thing we can expect, is for things to change. But the best thing you can do and the best way forward is to know who you are through those changes, even if that changes. Your strengths might get stronger, your weaknesses might get diluted. But just track how you feel and how your dreams change, how your aspirations change, and the better you know yourself, the better way you can navigate through all of those pivots.

[00:36:54] Kate: Yeah. And I'm hearing, to really embrace these phases and seasons. And also, we all know this, to not compare your winter to somebody else's summer, for instance. And we're all always going through different phases at different times, independent of other people. And I really relate to your hyper independency and what's coming through for me.

[00:37:16] And then the world keeps showing me Dr. Joe Dispenza talking about how women who live alone are the most, whatever he says about it. We're the best in whatever way he says it. And that we're the most emotionally intelligent because we have to figure it out emotionally on our own.

[00:37:32] And my phase now, there was another quote I saw years ago that made me laugh out loud, and it says, how you know you're ready for a relationship. And it said, when you are really, really happy being single, then and only then are you ready for a relationship. And I feel like that's where I am now.

[00:37:50] The videos that the universe shows me, I'm just like, "Okay, I see you." It proves that I think they listen to us, our phones, or track us, or whatever they're doing. Because then I see the video about how the new wealth is women who don't date at all. You don't even participate in dating. You're not on the apps.

[00:38:06] And I'm like, "Gosh, I'm relating a little bit too much to all of that." But that's how I know that I am ready for my husband and marriage because I've done this phase. You talk about writing books. I could write the whole trilogy on being an independent, single woman. And it's been great, and I love it.

[00:38:24] And I'm like, "I've done this." Because I know the next step in my evolution is to do life with someone, to be a power couple, to help that man be his best self while he helps me be my best self and do it together. And I've traveled the world alone, and it's been amazing. And I am so grateful. And I think my last international trip alone, amazing.

[00:38:45] And I'm like, "I don't want to do this alone anymore. I want to share it with someone and savor it," which science says that makes it even better. And so I just think these are such important themes that are just-- again, I love that I'm comparing you to Kendrick Lamar because it's so obvious in your words and your poetry, and also so subtle and different people.

[00:39:07] That's why I love art. You and I can look at the same piece of art or read the same poem and make different meaning of it. And I love that it challenges our brain. It keeps us young, if you will, to make meaning out of a piece of art, whatever that is, and then create your own art.

[00:39:24] I even remember being in high school, and I guess I've always had a weird brain because I was doing this art project on a Claude Monet painting, and when I looked at the painting, I thought it was-- it was in Venice-- my favorite city in the world, Venice, Italy.

[00:39:37] And I thought it was little boys sitting in a boat in Venice on the water. But the painting was actually a building, and the little boys were windows in a building. And so even my interpretation, for whatever reason, I'm like, "Oh, little boys on a boat. How fun." And the teacher's like, "That's not what it is, but I love what you made it to be. And I think Claude Monet would delight in the fact that you thought his painting was about something else completely."

[00:40:07] Sonya: Yeah. And you said you were in queries earlier, and that also reminds me, we were talking about this before we hit Record, that the interpretation, it reminds me of the magazines that we used to read in the '90s, like the J-14 or 17 and the horoscopes that were inside. And I could always find a way to relate to that even though-- like my fellow Gemini friends-- I'm a Gemini-- were in a completely different phase of life. But they also recognize something in it.

[00:40:32] And the poetry to me also, there's a lot of love poems, speaking of love in the book, but someone could read that love poem and think of their best friend or think of their sister, and it doesn't necessarily always need to be a romantic love. And it really is. Everything's up for interpretation when it comes to poetry. And that's the beauty of it, is whatever feelings it invites for you is right. There is no right and wrong. It's whatever's right for you.

[00:40:59] Kate: Yeah, it reminds me when I work with my trauma therapist, Jane, and you bring to mind someone or something that brings about immense feelings of love, pure love. And for me, it brings up Teddy. And Teddy is my late great golden doodle who we lost, oh gosh, three years ago now, which just doesn't even seem possible.

[00:41:19] Love of my life. And yeah, I bring Teddy to mind. I'd invite everyone to write a poem about your dog. So many people have them. If you don't have a dog, you have-- like right now, I think of Winnie, my brother's dog, who is just another love of my life, and the feelings that they bring about.

[00:41:34] And so if you're having a challenging time, okay. And I only have five minutes. You're right. I'm at carpool lane, or I'm at the doctor's appointment. Take five minutes, write a poem to Winnie. Even if it's like, Winnie, I love you so much. And even as we're talking, when we end this, I want to sit down here with my notebook and just challenge myself.

[00:41:55] Anything I ask my audience to do, I always do myself. And just write a poem. Maybe it's a gratitude poem to you or to the trees at the park, or just to the ability to have these conversations in a world that most people aren't having these kinds of conversations. It's very much, what do you do? Where do you live? How many kids do you have? Are you married?

[00:42:17] And that's why I just want to open up hearts and minds, which is what you're doing through your work. And I think when we're in that place, we're more connected. And people who are more connected are more creative. People that are more creative just make the world a more beautiful place. And when you're in that space and vibration, you don't have time for hate. You're too happy with your beautiful art.

[00:42:40] Sonya: And it reminds me, Kate, I got to tell you a story. So speaking of being hyper independent, I have loved celebrating all my friends' milestones over the year, but I decided that this book was going to be my milestone. And I did a book bachelorette, or a booklorette, and I had 14 of my friends meeting in New Mexico for a weekend to celebrate the launch of the book.

[00:43:02] And I was really excited to do that, to empower other women, to celebrate their milestones that might be outside of their traditional narrative. But the reason that I bring this up is you talking about the poem about inviting people to do a poem about their dog or their pet or animal.

[00:43:17] And something that my friend surprised me with on the last site of the booklorette was my best friend arranged for everyone there to write a poem for me. And then they presented me a little binder of handwritten poems for each of my friends about what our friendship needs to them and what I mean to them.

[00:43:36] And then like a spoken word event, every single one of them performed it in the room in our pajamas at night, and it was probably one of the most memorable moments of my life. And it will remain that way. And I'm ridiculously grateful to all my friends for not only going on a trip when it is outside of a traditional narrative, but so leaning into it and making me feel supported in that moment.

[00:44:02] And my friends all would say like, "I'm not a writer. ChatGPT helped me with this." But all of them were so beautiful, and I love every single one of them. I have it with me in my room now, and it is just like, that's a great representation of how poetry can really make other people feel loved.

[00:44:21] Kate: Yeah, and feel seen, which is loved and heard and connected. And this notion of being creative, even if that's not our job or we don't think we're very good at it, I definitely will admit that there's a lot of things I am like, "Oh." Even sometimes creating reels for social media, oh, why bother? The algorithm are--

[00:44:40] Or it's not going to go viral. What's the point? And we diminish how important it is even if one person cares or just us being creative. For me, I just have to allow myself that quiet space and 1,000-word article will flow out of me that barely needs to be edited. Or it's just like, you know what?

[00:45:01] I don't know if this is the "right time" to post on Instagram because of engagement, but I have a half an hour right now. I feel inspired. Let me just write from the heart, again, what I think people need to hear because I need to hear it. Or just something that's heartfelt, a reminder for somebody or a different perspective or a creative, healthy, fun expression of love and creativity.

[00:45:23] And you see what it does. You get a lot of that, oh, this is exactly what I needed to hear. Or I think you just inspire people. Again, there's so much crap out there. And just giving people other options, other programming, other uplifting content that just has such a powerful effect. And that goes into my next question about feeling our feelings and being courageous enough to feel them privately and then publicly share them. Why do you think it's so challenging for people still in this day and age to be comfortable with uncomfortable feelings?

[00:46:02] Sonya: I think for a lot of people it's not our fault when we feel like we can't express what we feel. And our heart has a lot to say, but there's a lot of distraction in the world that's keeping us from listening and tuning in. Not only listening, but then expressing what that has to say.

[00:46:18] So there's a million reels that we could be watching to distract ourselves. There's a constant new flurry of documentaries and movies on Netflix and shows that are going to take up our attention. Our inboxes are incredibly full. And there's just so many places that our attention can go, an entire world that is distracting us, and it's distracting us away from what we're feeling within our heart.

[00:46:44] So one, a lot of it is just like, where's the time or where's that moment to stop? And that's going back to that walk that we were talking about. You need those moments when you just shut off the rest of the world and recognize the world that lives within you. And that is going to take accountability.

[00:47:01] That is going to take some self-discipline to give yourself those moments. And again, going back to the five minutes, five minutes can be extremely powerful because if you just take those five minutes, that might change what all the other minutes in your day look like, and maybe you're a little more connected and a little more in tune with what you're feeling.

[00:47:21] And whether you're creating thorough writing, whether you're creating through doodling or music or photography or anything, just that little moment to see what your heart wants to say can help you express yourself to the world better and can help you express yourself more authentically to who you are.

[00:47:38] So that's another really, really big thing about creativity, is the more you create, the better you get to know yourself, and then the better you can connect with other people and more authentically people can get to know you for who you really are because you know yourself better because you've created, you've done the hard work, and you listen to your heart, even though the world tries to tune you out.

[00:47:59] The world is louder than ever right now, and it is difficult to turn down the volume. But when you do, you recognize that there's so much your heart has to say. And at the end of the day, your heart also wants to be seen. And the only person who can see it is yourself.

[00:48:15] Kate: Mm. And I think a simple, practical way to do everything you just said, which was so beautiful, and I have my clients do this, and sometimes there's resistance, especially some of these CEOs where we talk about doing these things and then I'll say, "Okay, by when can you implement that plan?" It's like, well, what do you mean?

[00:48:33] I have to think about, okay, let's put it in your calendar now. By when do you think you can send out that proposal? And sometimes there's some pushback and resistance, but it's putting it in our schedule. So even I have clients put in like CT, which is Carol time. And so even other colleagues, they try to book a meeting with you and they can't, and they think, what's CT?

[00:48:52] They don't need to know what CT is. That's your time to regroup or to refresh or to be present for your next meeting. But I think scheduling it in, just like you do your interview, maybe your content creation, all your Zoom meetings, kid pick-up, whatever it is. But putting in, even if it's from 4:00 to 4:10 or 4:00 to 4:15, Kate time, poetry time.

[00:49:14] From 4:00 to 5:00, your husband says, what's this on your calendar? I'm writing poetry during that hour. And maybe people laugh or you think it's funny, but nobody thinks it's funny to be stressed out or overwhelmed or exhausted or angry. So let's just maybe change perspectives a little bit. Let's be rebellious and schedule in poetry time and creativity time and time to just think and reflect and process and then express creatively.

[00:49:40] Sonya: I love that. I hope that everyone that's listening to this goes to their calendars after this and creates their me time, their creativity time. Even I'm going to do it. For me it's usually the morning. When do you feel like you're most creative?

[00:49:55] Kate: I like the mornings too. I am a proponent of slow mornings. I don't like to schedule anything. I do a lot of work from home, but maybe a little bit later in the day because I like to ease into my day, which again, I can hear all the gurus, you shouldn't do that and don't hit snooze.

[00:50:11] I'm like, "I hit snooze. Thank you very much." But I like to have my slow mornings, and maybe I'm not creating something, but I'm thinking. It's the pre-creation where it's like, ooh, I want to do an episode on that. Or I'll think I'm like, "Oh, reach out to Kevin. He would be a perfect guest, and we can talk about X, Y, Z."

[00:50:32] Or, oh, an idea comes to mind for an Instagram post or something. And I don't know how people do it, who don't. And that's why my house is like-- people with kids are going to hate me, but my house is perfectly in order. It's like a museum in here because then my brain feels in order. I can't have chaos and disruption.

[00:50:51] I need a clean, organized space. So I think there is something to that. But having that time to just-- and you're right. Even some nights I do. Guilty. I like to get a lot of my information on TikTok, and it's very authentic creators over there, and they are not shy about their thoughts and expressing them.

[00:51:09] And so I think it was even last night, I said to myself-- I talked to myself, my inner child. And it's like, "No TikTok tonight, sweetie. We're going to meditate in the bathtub." Last night. And I saw the difference it was. And Sonya, like, I didn't want or need TikTok after I read through your book.

[00:51:28] And so that was a big sign to me too. And I'm not sobbing or feeling feelings really on TikTok. I enjoy the content and consuming it. But your book, I literally was doing this. For those who can't see me, I had the book to my chest, and my eyes were closed, and I was crying, holding and hugging your book like a friend, as I'm doing now.

[00:51:52] That's what it did for me. No social media has ever done that for me. And so that's just the power of our words and our creativity that we express and that we give to others. It is such a gift. And how good I felt and how well I slept consuming this rather than the videos.

[00:52:13] It's so funny when life is so obvious and the proof is in the pudding. And we aren't just saying words. We actually are experiencing the truth. Again, what the show is about, it's about uncovering the truth, speaking the truth.

[00:52:31] Sonya: I love that. Yeah, you're uncovering much more from reading poetry or personal essays or even nonfiction books that really connect with you than you are from a lot of the other things that, again, try to distract us. And I just love that you had that connection with my book. That makes me so happy.

[00:52:48] And it also makes the little girl inside of me happy, the one who probably is freaking out that I got to this moment. And I think about that a lot, and there's a lot of poems written to my younger self in that book. And when we were talking earlier about not comparing yourself to others, there's a poem in my book that talks about the only person that I compare myself to is my younger self because I know that she would be proud of me.

[00:53:14] And that, I think, is really, really strong. And something that I would also encourage people to do as a practical exercise, if you're struggling to write a poem to your significant other, to a friend or even to your dog or your cat, write a poem to your younger self. And either tell them about what you've learned and who you've become, or offer your younger self advice.

[00:53:37] Whenever I'm hosting writing workshops, that is hands down always the one that gets people to feel very cathartic and to just understand themselves better. And it's also one that I repeat. So just because you do it one time doesn't mean that you can never do it again.

[00:53:53] I always learn something new. And I think that's a really, really valuable writing prompt that someone can use, whether they're a morning person or night person. And I feel like you'd learn more from that than from some of the videos that we watch.

[00:54:08] Kate: Yeah. And I love that your book comes with writing prompts and questions for reflection, just to get people into their flow and creativity. And speaking of comparison, there's a saying, I think it's some doctor or science says it, that it's impossible to go on a brisk walk and be in a bad mood.

[00:54:24] And I find that too. And during COVID, my brisk walks kept me going. I'd be so grumpy. It was a challenging time, as we know. And again, I talked to myself like I'm a child, and I'm always by myself. I was in isolation writing my manuscript for my book and I was like, "You are really grumpy."

[00:54:41] It was 40 degrees and I'm like, "You're going to go on a brisk walk until you are not this grumpy. And I did, and it took maybe 20, 30 minutes, and then I felt so great. And so same with our arts. When you are creating art, you are so present that what other people are doing or saying or creating doesn't even cross your mind because you're so lost in what you're doing and in your creativity, who care-- I can't even think about it.

[00:55:07] And I see people. I recently had a so-called friend plagiarize some of my work, and I saw it and called her out on it. And I think, you're better than that. I think you can come up with your own thing. But again, this person, not present, moving too fast, clearly doesn't believe in their own abilities. It's not flattery. That's theft.

[00:55:28] And so I just invite everyone in this moment and every moment going forward, find five minutes a day to be in touch with your creativity, your feelings, your art. Create arts, however big or small, however good or bad you think it is. And it will get better. But then this whole notion of comparing and judging, it doesn't even cross your mind.

[00:55:52] Just like when you're in love with someone in the beginnings of being in love with someone. It's like time stops. And for me, I'm like, I don't even care about what's on my to-do list. I'm just so in this moment. I think anything that can get us more into our bodies, more into the present moment is such a gift.

[00:56:09] And I feel like I'm being a dead horse at this point, but even sometimes with a loved one in my life, it's just like, why are you not getting this? You're so intelligent. And then he'll hear it from somebody else. So maybe you'll hear it from you and believe it. Maybe they don't care when it's a family member or something, but they hear it from you and then they'll do it. So that's why I like having all my brilliant guests on here too, because you'll say something in a way that someone will finally get it and take action, and that's such a gift.

[00:56:40] Sonya: Oh, I love to hear that. That's also something that you can try doing with poetry too, is giving yourself advice for a future bad day. And then it's so difficult to take your own advice when people tell you to do that in conversation. But I love doing like little note cards that I'll secretly find in the closet or a really neat trick.

[00:56:59] I'll schedule an email of encouragement to myself for months down the road and it randomly hits my inbox. And it could be a poem, sometimes it's just a quote or just like something nice to hit my inbox and it does always come exactly when I need it. So that's another way that you can be creative with how you talk to yourself and stay connected.

[00:57:20] Kate: Mm. When you're having a really sad moment or maybe you're really angry, I think, again, two emotions that really scare a lot of folks. Or maybe fear. Fear is another big one right now. What is a journal prompt or a poetry reflection or question that you could offer people right now?

[00:57:43] Sonya: Ooh, that's a great question. Fear is one that I do touch on a lot. So I think it's really powerful when we personalize the fear. So I would write to fear as if it was a tangible thing, and make it real. So sometimes I think that the reason it's so challenging to get in touch with the more difficult emotions is they feel so intangible, like we can't touch them. We can't understand them.

[00:58:10] They're just a messy web. But if you give it almost a personality as if it is a real thing, you can see it better and then you can talk to that fear as if it were a friend. It's like everyone wants to be seen. Your fear probably also wants to be seen. Your confusion wants to be seen. Your pain wants to be seen.

[00:58:30] And if you can see it and if you can talk to it like the real emotion that it is, it'll make it easier for you to move past it or to take action in order to heal it or help it. And it really just takes that time to notice and see what you're feeling. So one thing you could do is I will write like, dear fear, and just start from there and make it as if you're talking to it.

[00:58:59] Kate: Mm. That's so helpful. I think also just like people, we set boundaries with some of these emotions, like fear. When fear comes up in me, it feels more like my inner child is scared. Or I always think of the dog who's scared of the dog next door barking, or the delivery man, or the thunderstorm. And I'm always saying like in a sweet voice, "It's okay, sweetie."

[00:59:20] Or what you would say to a small child. Like, "It's okay. Come here. I've got you." And give yourself that affection and that love. And with fear, for me, it's just like, oh, hey. It doesn't come up that much. And for me now it's more tangible fear. People talk about home break-ins or natural disasters, but I do get fear.

[00:59:38] That's a real fear. But this thing of fear of being seen in that stuff now, it's just like, oh, you again? And it's just like, takes several seats. Having the boundaries with it or unfollow or block people on social media. And I think just getting more comfortable and experiencing the full spectrum of our emotions and not judging.

[01:00:00] I even had this person say to me the other day. They were complimenting my social media, like, "Oh, you just seemed so this and that." And then I was irritated when I answered the phone because it was all these crank calls, all the marketers. I'm like, "How do you get my number?"

[01:00:16] Anyway, I answered the phone agitated because I kept getting all these wrong number calls and she's like, "Oh, you seem so happy online and you seem very irritated now." And it was just like, first of all, probably don't have that person in your life. And second of all, it was, I'm in-- what did I say to her?

[01:00:33] I said, "I'm in touch with the full spectrum of my emotions. And sometimes that's joy and it shows up that way, and other times it's irritability because I'm real and have real feelings." I'm paraphrasing, but I think people will try to gaslight us too or put pressure on us to feel a certain way or not feel a certain way.

[01:00:51] And just being mindful of our own journey and noticing. We talk about noticing the trees and things when we go on a walk. But I think also noticing other people's behavior and knowing that-- we talk about personalizing fear. Let's not personalize somebody else's behavior towards us. Let's not personalize someone projecting their fears and insecurities onto us or onto our art and just noticing them and their behavior for what it is.

[01:01:18] And sometimes, again, I keep bringing up Kendrick Lamar, noticing that that's a sign we're on the right track. If everybody doesn't like it, everybody doesn't get it, some people say it's the worst halftime show of all time, despite being the most watched, for me, I'm like, "If you don't look at that and see brilliant art, I'm not even going to try to change your mind on anything." Do you think pizza's gross? Great. More for me. So I think that's just a little gentle reminder as well today.

[01:01:50] Sonya: Yeah. I love that. And you mentioned changing minds. Sometimes I think where we really need to start is changing hearts and the only way we can do that is by speaking from the heart, talking about our emotions. And so you have to go a little bit deeper than just spitting out what's on your head.

[01:02:09] And I think that goes back to what we were talking about too, is a lot of the stuff that brings us down is the surface-level things. But if you can really talk about how you feel and just connect your emotions to your words, that is what's going to hit and resonate with people. That is what's going to create momentum and create change. And I think that that's just where we start, talking from the heart.

[01:02:33] Kate: Yeah. And that we changed hearts by not necessarily trying to change hearts, just being in our joy, in our creativity, in our flow, and leading by example. At least what I get, you weren't trying to make me cry on the sofa last night. You were just expressing yourself, and that's what I had.

[01:02:53] And maybe someone else experiences a different emotion, but for me, what I got is this is the healthy release that I needed right now. And I think of all of my favorite movies, that is art. They are my favorite movies because of the depth of the characters and the dialogue and I am moved by the performances and the message. And if a movie makes me cry, instant, classic, favorite. If a book, if a poem makes me feel instant, classic.

[01:03:26] So thank you so much for doing that, and I really hope everyone picks this book up, Everlasting Spring: 101 Poems for Every Season of Life. Sonya Matejko, such an inspiration and joy. I really would like you to leave us with a final thought, or if you want to, read a poem. I'll just give you the last beautiful word here. You deserve it.

[01:03:48] Sonya: I think that the last thing I would want to encourage people is to recognize that whatever their creativity looks like or feels like is enough. And so we could keep going back to this, like it's okay if it is one person who resonates, a million people who resonate. But the most important thing is that it resonates with you.

[01:04:09] If it resonates with you, then that just gives you so much more power to be who you are meant to be by acknowledging who you are. And that could look however you need it to. Whatever that result is enough. There's no wrong. There's no right. It is just you. And just start there. Start there and see what happens.

[01:04:30] Kate: Ah, start there and see what happens. Sonya Matejko, thank you so much for being here on Rawish today.

[01:04:36] Sonya: Thank you so much for having me, Kate. I loved it.

[01:04:38] Kate: I loved it, and thank you so much for being here. I hope, I invite, I inspire, I encourage you to write a poem today or tomorrow and just let it flow. Let it be. Please send it to me, if you feel called. You can see all my information in the show notes. And you'll find all of Sonya's information there too.

[01:04:56] Please pick up her book. We need more creative artists in the world expressing their beautiful hearts. So thank you so much for being here today. We'll see you right back here next time. Bye, everybody.