How To Overcome Negative Life Events with Laurel Wiers

[00:00:00] Laurel Wiers: When you think, "Okay, I'm in certain situation, I don't react the way that I want to," you're being triggered. Most people say, "I don't want to look at that. I just need to be better behaved." No.

[00:00:09] When people are managing all this that's going on emotionally, mentally, physically, spiritually, we become-- and I'm not saying this in a negative way, but self-absorbed. Depression and anxiety are two of the most self-absorbed mindsets. Don't expect people to be something they've never shown you they're not.

[00:00:27] We can't tell somebody to fix something that they do not see as a problem. I think that we assume that when people are in relationship with us, that they know us so well that we don't need to. That is the problem.

[00:00:38] Kate Eckman: Ooh, that's a good one.

[00:00:40] Hi, there, and welcome back to Rawish with Kate Eckman. I have a very, very timely subject matter today, and it involves us being triggered. And I feel like we're all feeling a bit triggered right now for one reason or another. And we don't need to dwell there or have outrage that goes unaddressed or take it out on anybody else.

[00:01:04] And there are people out there who specialize in helping us with hot topics. I'm not talking about celebrities and what they're doing. I'm talking about hot topics that really poke at our morals, our values, what matters to us. And I think a lot of people are feeling that their morals and values are being threatened or under attack, or people are just going through some post-traumatic stress, like those of us in Los Angeles who have been through the fires, for instance.

[00:01:29] But all around the world, people are managing so much now more than ever. So I really want to have a raw, candid conversation about where we are, where we can go from here. And to help us do that and make sense of it all, and heal, and evolve, and move forward is Laurel Wiers. She's a therapist. She's an executive coach. She's a speaker. She's an author.

[00:01:49] And she really specializes in helping all of us first identify and know what the heck triggers are even, and then how we manage them and then how we make friends with them. So Laurel, thank you so much for being here on Rawish today.

[00:02:02] Laurel Wiers: Thank you so much for having me. This is going to be a fun conversation. I can tell already.

[00:02:07] Kate Eckman: It is going to be fun, and thank you for that. As I was putting on a little makeup, I thought, how can we make talking about our traumas and our triggers sexy and fun, where it's no longer the scary boogeyman monster that we're avoiding or suppressing or uncomfortable to really even admit or deal with that we're just treating it as a friend and a learning opportunity.

[00:02:28] And I think that's how I approach it. And then I think when we talk about these topics, like we would talk about fashion or sports, we can get a grip on it, and we can learn to almost have fun with the challenges that come our way, which I know sounds ridiculous, but I'm like, "Listen. I'm making this like a Super Bowl party event or something."

[00:02:46] Laurel Wiers: I love that, and I think you're right. I love that you're having that approach because in general, I think languaging has a lot to do with it. So even when you said, traumas and triggers, that languaging right away, there's probably people listening going, either this doesn't apply to me, or, ooh, I don't know what this is going to do to me when we're talking about this.

[00:03:04] So I often like to even just can those words and say negative life events. I think when we use that terminology, people can relate to that because negative life events, your nervous system can't tell the difference between what we consider trauma and a negative life event.

[00:03:20] So if I start to say our negative life events wire us to have certain responses in certain situations, I all of a sudden bring people into the fold that can engage in the conversation and they don't feel broken, and they don't feel like they're fitting underneath that trauma lens. So thanks for even starting out there.

[00:03:37] Kate Eckman: I love that. This is why I love this show and my guests so much. You guys give me so much life. You make me feel so good about humanity when I am often disappointed by things that I'm seeing and experiencing and hearing, and I love that. That's why I like just really getting in there and going and hearing different perspectives, because one simple sentence or word that someone can say or share gives us that reframe or that change in perspective, what you just did for me. And I've had coaching and therapy and all the training and everything, and I've never really heard it phrased like that.

[00:04:13] Laurel Wiers: I am so glad it hit you that way. I met with a woman last Friday, and it was the same thing. She had heard me on a podcast and she said, "Laurel, what caught me was the minute you said that." She said, "I finally felt like she gets me. She doesn't think I'm broken and I can do something." It seems like a task to be understood and dealt with versus this overwhelming thing when you start to phrase it that way.

[00:04:34] Kate Eckman: And I think so many of us keep some things to ourselves. I'm an open book, and I like to share, but I'm noticing that I really don't want to share with many people anymore. And I've had moments in my coach training where the professor will say, "What's a takeaway from today's session?"

[00:04:50] And I remember my takeaway recently, Laurel, was I'm finding it really challenging to have conversations with non-professional certified coaches and licensed therapists because I don't feel seen, or I'll be really upset, and I don't care if I'm upset about a natural disaster or someone was really rude to me and I'm never going to see them again, and it doesn't really "matter", but I find many people, even friends or so-called friends, are dismissive of my feelings.

[00:05:21] They don't really want to hear about it. People don't know how to support us. And I don't think that you should have to have advanced degrees or professional training to just say to someone, "I'm so sorry you went through that, or that sounds really difficult." What do you think is going on that we're having a hard time really seeing and embracing each other in our joys and our challenges?

[00:05:44] Laurel Wiers: Oh, I think it's because everybody is maxed out and they don't have capacity. So when we lose capacity, we lose the ability to see outside of ourselves. And so if you have this bleeding arm, this wound that's open, you really don't have time to stop for someone and say, "Hey, how are you doing right now?"

[00:06:04] And so I feel like it's a good picture of where a lot of people are at. Like you started the show, when people are managing all this that's going on emotionally, mentally, physically, spiritually, we become-- and I'm not saying this in a negative way, but self-absorbed. Depression and anxiety are two of the most self-absorbed mindsets.

[00:06:25] And it doesn't mean like selfish, but our focus is on self. We're trying to maintain. We're trying to get through the day. We're in survival mode. And when we have all these events happening, when you are just trying to drag yourself through the day, you really don't have capacity anymore to take on another person's burden. And I really think it just speaks to the state of affairs.

[00:06:46] Kate Eckman: Yeah. So what do we do about this? And how do you help people? Because you're very successful. You've got a line of people wanting to work with you, and you even said something that sounded unreal and magical, that you can even see a patient, and in 90 minutes you can help them with their negative life event. I'm going to start using that terminology. So where do we begin, Laurel, with all of this?

[00:07:09] Laurel Wiers: Oh, such a perfect question. So this is what I do with everybody. And so anyone who's listening, it's great because they can understand the process, and you as well. So typically, when someone comes in to see me, they're already having this experience, like what you're saying. I feel that I'm stressed. I feel that I don't have capacity anymore.

[00:07:26] I find that I wake up and I already have anxiety, first thing when I wake up in the morning. I can't fall asleep anymore. And so from that I'll say, "Okay, let's just dive into that. Right now where you're at, I want you to imagine the situation that you're struggling with. See yourself in that moment."

[00:07:44] And then I'll say, "Now close your eyes. Go back to that space, that moment that you just felt and feel in your body what's going on. And as you feel it in your body, don't rush it-- I want you to ask this question: where else in my life have I felt this way? Where is this feeling taking me?"

[00:08:09] And typically, your brain will show you very quickly where it is. So from that exercise, I then can dive in and do my work because the imagery will either go back to something 20 years ago, something five years ago, but it's a significant memory. Those are what we call critical memories. And then we can process that critical memory, change the way that your brain stores it, attend to what's going on, and that gets rid of the triggering.

[00:08:39] You see triggers, like you said, we don't want to look away from them. When you think, okay, I'm in certain situation, I don't react the way that I want to, you're being triggered. Most people say, I don't want to look at that. I just need to be better behaved. No, that is the worst thing to do.

[00:08:54] When you feel a trigger, I love them because what they're saying is, "Hello, look at me. Something's going on here." And we need to do something with it. So when we sit with the thing that feels opposite, to feel that emotion, to feel that pain and say, what message are you trying to tell me body? You're telling me that there's some work here.

[00:09:12] And then you go back to that image, that memory, that point in time that you're like, "Ooh, this feels very similar." When we can process that out, neutralize your body's sensations, change the way the brain stores it. You won't be triggered the next time you go in that exact same situation, and you can do that sometimes 90 minutes.

[00:09:31] Kate Eckman: I love that. Something that's coming up for me, because again, I'll get triggered, irritated-- the other day, I was just so irritated, and it's like, is this hormones? Is this the state of the world? Is this the collective chaos? I didn't know, and I didn't really care what it was. I was just like, "Why are you so irritable?"

[00:09:51] And I noticed that something that should have been maybe an irritation, maybe a one to two on a scale of 10, was that a 10. And I'm just going to share it because sometimes it's the dumb stuff that bothers us way more than something significant. And for me, I was so perturbed by this man who blows the leaves here.

[00:10:07] I live in nature and in the mountain, and so he comes and blows the leaves and sometimes he shows up, sometimes he doesn't. He will only come Mondays at noon, does not care about my time or schedule. Will only take payment one way, and it's cash under the table. And it's just all these things that I accommodate the crap out of this man who's working for me and he didn't show up.

[00:10:27] And I was like, "What's going on?" And the communication was so off, and I found myself irate, Laurel, irate. And I'm not ashamed to admit it. I know people want to judge that. I want to judge myself, but I was so pissed. And I thought, "What is this really about?" Because I've had the training, and I'm excited to hear your coaching and therapy on it.

[00:10:47] But I think underneath that frustration was feelings of my feelings not mattering, not being seen, not being respected. It's themes that I've experienced in childhood or with parents or with romantic partners or just in the world in general.

[00:11:04] And then I think because I'm so empathetic, I have friends or colleagues who are in certain demographics that are being blatantly stereotyped and are discriminated against. And so I think I'm feeling their aggression too. What is going on in that moment though, that I am that mad about the leaf blower man?

[00:11:24] Laurel Wiers: I love it. And these are the things that people come to me about too. And you said it perfectly, Kate, which is, this is what I tell people. When you put 10 people in a room and you're the only one freaking about the leaves, we know we got a trigger, because it's that hyper responsiveness to something that we know it's just a little extra for the given circumstances. I know I probably should not be reacting like this. And so what I would say is the same thing. Okay, you already said it. I know what this ties back to, Laurel. In my childhood, I had these feelings, and I could even hear it when you just said it.

[00:11:56] You said, "I accommodate." And those are the words that stuck out to me. There's this sense of, well, I'm accommodating to you. Why are you not accommodating to me? And I can see the look on your face, girl. Go.

[00:12:10] Kate Eckman: Ooh. See, it's these simple things. I just want to acknowledge your gift and skill too, because I feel like if I shared that story with most people, you'd get the judgment, you'd get the-- there's people starving in the world. Get over it. You'd get the, why are you even worried about that? It's not a big deal. Let it go.

[00:12:31] You get all of that stuff, which is very dismissive. And what you just did to me is, again, using my own language, which is so powerful. And so you just gave me another deeper layer of understanding here, is my whole life, I was raised to be the nice girl. And nice girls accommodate everybody else.

[00:12:51] I grew up watching all the women in households making the food, cleaning up, serving the men. And I feel like I purposely was like, "I'm not helping with the dishes. I'm not cooking. Why can't these men serve me?" And so it's things like that where, even as a woman, why are we always accommodating everybody, men in particular.

[00:13:10] So you're touching on a much deeper layer here. I want anyone who's listening to really make your own leaf blower man. And what's your thing? Mine is, I accommodate you or everyone. Why can't someone for once accommodate me?

[00:13:25] Laurel Wiers: Right. And I think that's a great question. And that goes back to when we're not triggered by that, you are going to be able to find a way to answer that question better. But when you're in this place that your nervous system is all jacked up because it's upset, that's when we cannot find our answer. Because we have to go back and calm down that voice in us, that piece of us. We need to heal it.

[00:13:49] So in a sense, I would say go back to, if that's a theme in your life, there's an earlier version of you that didn't get something she needed that wasn't seen in certain ways. And until we can provide that metaphorically and emotionally to her, she almost can't show up differently with the leaf blower man.

[00:14:09] It's going to be just rote behavior, not true transformation. And when that younger Kate longer feels not seen, or feels bossed around, or feels like she's the one that has to always put herself aside, she can then show up and speak her truth in a way that will be received better.

[00:14:28] Kate Eckman: Speaking your truth in a way that will be received better. I feel like I have gotten quite skilled at speaking my truth, but I could sometimes work on tone and delivery because when I get to the place where I'm finally like, "I've been nice, I've been accommodating, now I'm really going to tell you about yourself."

[00:14:46] It doesn't come out as kind and loving because I am at the end of my rope. So I want to maybe speak the truth sooner or not need to share my truth with leaf blower man. Yeah, what's coming up for you as I'm speaking? I'd love a little insight from your perspective.

[00:15:05] Laurel Wiers: Well, I love how you can even see the conscious mind wants to come up with a solution, and that's not where the solution is. It's almost like if you don't go back and heal that space, you're just going to keep spinning in prefrontal cortex land, and really amygdala's hijacking you every time you come out with a conscious answer.

[00:15:22] So no, I would say don't even go down there. Let's heal it and then you can figure out what the true you wants to do in that situation. And it's just showing up as truly yourself, because you're right. Do you have to say something to him, don't you? We don't know if we're being triggered.

[00:15:37] So if we can clear that out and neutralize it, the clarity that we get when our amygdala is not running the show is beautiful. I tell people all the time-- they'll say, "Oh, Laurel, I have this really big business decision I have to make." And they're all over the place with traumas that are unresolved.

[00:15:54] And I'm like, "Why would you ever go into a position to make such an important decision about your life when you're going to look back and say, "Hmm, I don't think I made that from the best, most grounded version of myself. Let's go in first and let's get you neutralized. Let's get you more grounded so that the true version of you can see clearly what's happening without all this other stuff mucking up your vision to what you need to do."

[00:16:19] So yeah, I would say don't answer the question. We get so stuck on, I need to know how to behave now. Why don't we just clear and get grounded and then the behavior flows naturally?

[00:16:28] Kate Eckman: Thank you for that. And I see all the self-care guru girls on Instagram saying to me, again, in a dismissive tone and the name of helping, "Well, you just have to learn to accommodate yourself." And listen, I am the most self-sufficient person I know. I live alone. I manage everything solo-- business, life, home, personal, professional. I've got it.

[00:16:52] That said, sometimes, yes, it would be nice for someone else to accommodate me or care for me or do something for me as a friend, as a loved one. And so yes, sometimes the answer-- again, I know this is a thinking response, but it's okay. People would say, "How can you accommodate yourself?" And I do that all day, every day.

[00:17:12] So what is the deeper learning or work here, Laurel, with this in particular? I was always accommodating everybody else, putting everybody's needs first, because I wanted to have friends and keep friends. And I pride myself on that, and I enjoy it. I love showing up for others. I'm everybody's biggest fan and cheerleader.

[00:17:31] And then it just got exhausting when I was in a time of need, or I had something really big to celebrate besides getting married and having a baby, and there was not as much celebration, and it was hurtful.

[00:17:43] Laurel Wiers: Absolutely. Do you want to go there?

[00:17:44] Kate Eckman: Yeah, let's go there.

[00:17:45] Laurel Wiers: Okay, so I'm going to do that. I want you to close your eyes, and I want you to feel that feeling of leaf blower man. Okay. Tell me what image comes up. You don't have to tell a lot of details, but where does it take you? Where do you see yourself? What's happening?

[00:18:07] Kate Eckman: What just came through is, I'm a little girl and I'm screaming for help or to stop speaking to me like that or stop treating me this way. And not only is nobody listening, but they're not stopping. They're not listening to my requests. They're continuing the bad behavior. And it's that you're just screaming and no one can hear you feeling, like a little kid stomping the feet, but crying because it's like, why can't you hear me? Or why don't you want to hear me?

[00:18:40] Laurel Wiers: Yes. Perfect. So I want you to go back there. Yeah, there you go. I want you to feel that in your body right now. Just stay with that feeling. Feel all of it. Don't rush it. Don't push it aside, and just say, okay, I see you. I see where you showed up, and I want you to stay present with that feeling until you feel a shift in it. Just sit with it, honor it, and acknowledge it.

[00:19:17] Kate Eckman: Wow. In this moment, all these years later, I feel like I'm acknowledging her. I can see myself sitting across from her.

[00:19:25] Laurel Wiers: Mm-hmm.

[00:19:26] Kate Eckman: My feet, I uncross them and put them on the floor. I even see the house that she's sitting in, my aunt and uncle's house in Michigan, and she's sitting on the couch, and I'm sitting across from her, holding her hands. And she calmed my inner child.

[00:19:40] My 7-year-old self calmed way down, and it's like, I see you. I hear you, Kate. I've got you. I am listening. You matter. Your feelings matter and are valid. And then she's not just fine; she's great. She's like, "That's all I needed." Great. And ran out to play.

[00:20:01] Laurel Wiers: If you hadn't done it yourself, that's where I would've brought you. Beautiful. And can you feel that? Can you feel in your body you saw her? Now she's like, "Okay, I'm good. I just needed you to see me."

[00:20:13] Kate Eckman: And how simple that is.

[00:20:15] Laurel Wiers: Right? But it truly does change that internal feeling of, she wasn't seen. She just needed to be seen. And it's really taking that space, and it's the two steps. One is let yourself feel it. People don't realize how much it changes us when we just see those feelings and let them rise up in us. We've lived through the situation, so we don't need to be scared of it. So what's so wrong with taking 90 seconds?

[00:20:42] An emotion can never last really in its highest intensity cape past 90 seconds. So worst case, even if it's uncomfortable, it's going to be 90 seconds. But when you look at an emotion and you say, "I see you," it almost goes, "Thank you. Now I don't have to keep reminding you to look at me because you acknowledged me."

[00:21:03] And then when we go back to that version of ourselves and say, "Tell me. What are you thinking and feeling in this moment," which is what she told you, and then we offer to them. I can give that to you. You gave that to her when you grabbed her little hands. Then she said, "Thank you. That's all that I needed." And it just brings in this release. Good job.

[00:21:25] Kate Eckman: Thank you so much. It's so powerful when you're working with someone like yourself and then-- I've done the work too, and I'm like an athlete. It's always improving on the muscle. I'm here at the gym today. You're my trainer, and help me. I never am going to pretend to know it all.

[00:21:42] Even you've said a few sentences that I've never heard before that can give me a new perspective. So then is the answer that it is like sports or being fit, like I just need to keep acknowledging myself, keep validating myself. Because I feel like I'll be cruising along and life is grand, and then it is normally something more minor, these little-- for me, it's just the disrespect. And it's, again, triggering something when I was disrespected either last week, last year, or 40 years ago.

[00:22:12] Laurel Wiers: Mm-hmm.

[00:22:12] Kate Eckman: So is this an ongoing thing I need to do? Or if someone's listening right now and something just happened in traffic, or they saw a social media post and they're outraged, what is it that we do in the moment? Because right now there's so many times where I'm like, "I've got this. I'm good. I've done the training. I've spent all the money on all the people. Why am I still so upset?" And then I judge myself because I'm like, "You shouldn't be bothered by this."

[00:22:37] Laurel Wiers: Hmm. So two answers to that. That's a great question. So this goes into the deeper work. So initially what we just did is perfect, just acknowledging in the moment to get yourself through that. And then I always tell my clients, then say, "Okay, I'm going to take this moment and put it in my pocket. I'm going to look at it more later because I know that it's a theme that keeps coming up."

[00:22:56] And that's when we go into some of the other work I do with people that's deeper than what we just did. So sometimes when we have themes that come up, there is a very significant critical memory that your brain has not processed that memory, and we've  got to process it out.

[00:23:10] So when we can do this acknowledgement, while it can lift, it hasn't changed yet the way that our brain stores the image and the sensation. So if you had come to me and said, "Laurel, I know I helped that little girl out. She went off. She played outside, but I'm still being triggered." I would say, "Okay, now we need to change the way that your brain has stored some of these moments from earlier in your life."

[00:23:28] And the way that I do that with a lot of people is accelerated resolution therapy or EMDR. I use both of those, and then we will go in and literally process out that memory and give it a new association. And that then changes your nervous system response so you're not triggered anymore.

[00:23:45] You see, the images and sensations associated with our memories are what are causing the problem. It's not the narrative. It's not you saying, Laurel, "I was overlooked as a child." It's all those moments that you see in your mind's eye in that you feel that go with it that we have to attend to and process. The cool thing is you don't have to process out every single time that you felt that way.

[00:24:06] Typically, I make a movie reel of the three first worst memories that really encapsulate these feelings that you feel. So for you, I would say, "Let's take the top three memories that you have that you're like, yep, I see this one all the time, and ugh. That is the one that encapsulates how I feel."

[00:24:24] And then we process it out with the whole protocol that I use. By the time we get to the end of the protocol, you'll be neutralized to most of those. And what's cool is because trauma and memories and negative life events are thematic, all the other ones in your life are just retraumatizations of the first couple events.

[00:24:40] Kate Eckman: Wow.

[00:24:41] Laurel Wiers: So often it's almost like it takes this big scoop with it, and sometimes all of them go, or sometimes 70% of them go. And then we would check back in a couple of weeks later and say, "Okay, let's go back. Let's see what's happening." You told me about all these times in your life that you felt this way. Do they still feel the same to you?

[00:24:56] You'll be surprised. A client can give me 10 events that have happened. We'll process three of them. At the end of the session, I'll say, "Okay, let's go talk about the other seven." And just processing those worst ones, they're like, "Nothing, nothing, nothing." Because that's what trauma does because your body holds it the same.

[00:25:14] So the feeling that you felt when you feel overlooked, all those other memories go to the same place in your body. So if I can heal that part and we can heal that memory set, it expands out to the others, and then the others are gone too, which that's what brings you down to, let's say, a two in life rather than an eight.

[00:25:31] So right now, Kate's going around as an eight when it comes to accommodation. It takes just a leaf blower man to put her at a 10 and she's going to blow. If I can process out those memories with you, Kate, you're going to go around it like a two. I never say I'm going to make you perfect, but if I can get you at a two, do you see-- goes back to the beginning-- now you have capacity.

[00:25:49] You have more space to deal with people doing things that could be interpreted and truly are as not being paid attention to that you're being accommodating, but you're not going to blow so quick because we've already processed out these other memories. You've cared for yourself.

[00:26:05] Kate Eckman: Wow. That is so powerful. There's so much there. And then what is your recommendation on whether it's a leaf blower man, it's maybe the nail lady-- you love the nails, but she's quite rude, so maybe that triggers the whole, "I'm being accommodating."? I'm so nice to her. I give her a huge tip.

[00:26:27] I always ask about her day and she's rude to me. Is it also maybe firing the nail lady and the leaf blower man and getting new people? Listen, it's always going to be, and people are all managing their own stuff, so you can't fire everybody. You can't just sit around like, I'm not dealing with anybody because people are going to trigger me.

[00:26:44] What is the happy medium there in terms-- and some people, maybe the answer is yes, I'm going to work on my stuff, absolutely. I'm out of alignment with these individuals. Do I maybe need to cut ties too?

[00:26:59] Laurel Wiers: I think after you do the work again, that's when you ask that question. Because once you do the work, you're going to go to nail salon lady, and when that little girl is no longer saying, pay attention to me, she's not going to irritate you at an eight anymore. She's going to be a two. But see, the difference is when you process memories and you process these critical moments, your brain recalibrates, and then you're seeing the same thing, but it's landing differently.

[00:27:22] So you can say in your head, "Oh, yeah. She doesn't ask about me even though I ask about her." But it just doesn't get you stirred up the same because you've taken care of that memory set and now your nervous system is no longer on the hunt. Triggers make us always looking around to say, "I never want to feel that way again."

[00:27:39] So it's always warning you and telling you, this is a bad situation. It's making me feel that way. We don't want to feel that way again. If we don't get rid of the triggers, of course, we're going to be an eight everywhere. But if we get rid of the triggers, now the person that made you so upset, it's just not going to feel the same.

[00:27:55] And then there's part two, which is once we work with people and we work with these memory sets and we integrate these memories, then we have what I call the after work, which is, we have to say, now that I'm not going to be triggered, I may have to make some behavioral and cognitive changes.

[00:28:11] So when I hear you talk, immediately I think, it's expectation, my dear. You're expecting them to be like you because you are kind and sweet, and caring, and thoughtful. You think that they shall be as well? No, no, no.

[00:28:28] Kate Eckman: For anyone just listening and not watching on YouTube, I have my hands over my mouth and I want to cry. You're just seeing me and reading me so hard in a good way that I want to weep because it's rare that I have someone do this for me. So thank you so much, Laurel. But I think you said it all for me. That's what I mean.

[00:28:49] The stuff, it's not easy, but it's so simple. And for me, I'm like, "It feels like a curse sometime to have passion for excellence and a high standard of excellence and work so hard." I think of things like, I've hired people and they've done things and they make mistakes.

[00:29:06] And in my world, they flunk you out of that grad school. You get fired from that job. You are reprimanded. You are publicly shamed and embarrassed. And then these people are kind of like, "What's the big deal?" And so I'm like, "Am I in the wrong? Am I the crazy one for expecting this service to be a 10?"

[00:29:25] And I think it's even a generational thing often. So you just literally said everything in that sentence. And then for me, it's like, okay, but still, what's the answer? And you're right. I can't expect everybody to operate on my standard of excellence.

[00:29:43] Laurel Wiers: Absolutely. And I would dare to say, Kate, that there's probably moments in your life that you just mentioned it, that in my world, you get fired if you don't do this or this, this, or this. There's probably some moments lingering that still have not been processed that bring that up for you because it's still so-- it can be 20 years old, but if it's still fresh because it's not integrated, again, that is how you're interacting with the world.

[00:30:08] Those wounds are just left wide open. So why don't we heal them up and then going forward it will be easier to say, okay, I know I can't have the same expectation for others as I have for myself, but as long as we're still being triggered because we're not integrating, you can't do it. You cannot talk yourself out of it because the nervous system is going to hijack you every time.

[00:30:27] And that's why I always say to people, cognitive therapy, behavioral therapy doesn't always fix it because if you have a nervous system going off, you can't think logically in that moment. So let's stop telling people to think their way through this when we really have to heal the nervous system.

[00:30:43] Kate Eckman: I just made the connection. You're right, because I say in my world, you'd be fired. I have been fired before for whatever reason, even if the lady doesn't like you because her boyfriend told her you were hot, whatever it is. But you lost your job for something that was out of your control, and it felt embarrassing and shameful.

[00:31:02] And it's like, ooh, she got fired and people were happy about it. And it was the worst feeling because again, my intentions were pure. I showed up. I did a good job. And that's life sometimes. People, they won't like you or they're threatened. And then maybe sometimes, like at Northwestern where I went to grad school for journalism, a B minus, they flunked you out.

[00:31:24] My worst thing about journalism apparently is the grammar and punctuation. I'm putting an ellipses where there should be a dash. And I'm like, "Can't either work. I'm a broadcast journalist. There's no punctuation in the teleprompter besides periods, and it's an all cap, so forgive me. But it was those feelings of like, the girl next to me like got everything perfect, and the professor spoke to that, and then I'm like, "God, did I get the lowest grade in the class?" So maybe it is some of that stuff lingering.

[00:31:54] Laurel Wiers: There's your memory. And if you're my client, I'd be like, "Yes, we  got to go clean that baby up." That memory is still messing with you. And so if we can neutralize it, it's not going to mess with you. And as you can see, with some people, when I have some people work with me, we're working on 10 memories because we have all these things fueling our behavior.

[00:32:12] And again, you know consciously, okay, there's injustice in the world, but it's not cutting it when that button gets hit in you. Because you can hear that theme as you're talking of injustice, like there's injustice here.

[00:32:24] Kate Eckman: You are so good. You say a word or a sentence, and I'm like, "You're getting all of my things." And injustice is my biggest-- I'm a wannabe prosecutor. I ask for nothing in this world, but truth and justice, which is another way of saying I ask for everything and then there's standards and expectations. But I'm like, I just want the truth, which is what this whole show is about, that I've created, and I want justice.

[00:32:47] And you're right. There's so much injustice around us. I've been violated so many times on so many levels by a lot of people who even liked me or loved me. And so you're right. It's these little minor offenses that are safe. It's safer to be upset about the nail lady or leaf blower man than that person who tried to destroy you or violated you. Even talking about it, it's so upsetting.

[00:33:09] Laurel Wiers: You can feel it, right? And whenever your nervous system does that, you know it's not processed. And you could have talked about it for 10 years in therapy, Kate, but if it's showing up in your system now, it's not done. There's more to be processed, and it doesn't have to mean more talk therapy. But yeah, your system's telling you there is more here to pay attention to. It's not over yet.

[00:33:34] Kate Eckman: I think there's good news and there's other news here. The good news is we have tools for this. We have people like you. We have programming like this. And I have dedicated, I feel, all of my time, energy, and resources to the healing path these past couple of years in particular. I'm so dedicated. I'm so committed.

[00:33:52] I feel like Tom Brady going for the hundredth Super Bowl in his 40s. And there's still work to do. And so I bring up Tom Brady because we are both Big Ten Athletes at the same time. And he had such an incredible career Because you could say, "Why does Tom even still have to show up at practice? He knows how to throw touchdowns. He knows how to win."

[00:34:12] But he showed up and trained harder than anybody, not because he was the worst but the best. So I try to keep that in mind for myself. But you see then as an athlete, as a competitor, as someone who's giving it her all, and I'm getting emotion out because it's like, why am I still upset about this stuff? I've already done this. And I guess the answer is, like football, you have to keep showing up and maintaining your muscles, right?

[00:34:36] Laurel Wiers: Well, yes and no. Because we could say that talk therapy keep showing up. And that's, again, my big soapbox, Kate, which is just because we talk about it doesn't change it. If your brain has not changed this memory and how it's stored, you can talk about it till you die and it's still going to trigger you.

[00:34:53] There's a deeper level of work, and I love that you're speaking to what a lot of people are feeling. They say, "Laurel, I've gone to therapy for years. It doesn't work because I'm still showing up this way." And I'm like, "No, you just need a different form of therapy for this specific problem." It doesn't mean it was wasted. It helped a ton of things, but there's a couple of leftovers that the person that was seeing you just didn't have the right tools to use. So you just need to go see a specialist for those things.

[00:35:22] Kate Eckman: Yeah. And so grateful to you. I think what I'm noticing, that it is a journey, and I can see, for instance, I used to need a lot more-- we all like validation, but I needed it more because I didn't get the validation that I needed earlier in life and earlier years.

[00:35:39] And I didn't even realize what was going on. But then I realized, and then I remember, I work as a speaker and this event I did, the last several speaking events I've done, and they've all been by far my best because I've worked on my craft, but they were the first times that I didn't need one person-- whether it was fellow speakers, mom, best friend, all the people in the audience-- I didn't need one person to be like, that was amazing. Good job. Or, here's what I liked about it.

[00:36:07] And so that I could see the growth, and it was enough that I knew. Even working on this show. Sometimes I feel like I'm alone on an island in the middle of nowhere working on this, but I tell myself that my vision alone in isolation on what this is and what it's doing and how it can change the world is enough because my belief, my excitement is most important and then others will come in. Is that what's going on here?

[00:36:37] Laurel Wiers: Absolutely. Yeah, you're saying I see my growth, I see what I've done. It's not that I have to do this forever. We all are in process on certain things forever. But yeah, like you said, it's not wasted. It's all been good. We're constantly evolving and becoming better versions of ourselves. And you're saying, "I see that. I see that trajectory. It's been really good."

[00:36:56] But yeah, there's a couple of other things to clean up still. But sometimes you can't even do that work until the other work has been done. So often I work with people and we will go through a two-day trauma intensive, let's say, and your brain can only show you so much at a time, Kate.

[00:37:12] We cannot handle all the things we need to work on because it's so heavy. So when we clear what our brain is showing us we need to attend to, this crazy thing happens that all of a sudden they'll come back to me six months later. Sometimes it's quicker, sometimes it's longer. And say, you know what's so bizarre? I never noticed blank. But ever since we did that work, and I'm not reacting to these things anymore, I can now see how I do this.

[00:37:37] And then you have capacity. Oh, now I can deal with this other issue in my life. I can deal with the rejection now that I've dealt with the shame. But your body, it's kind to you that way, in a sense that it's not going to give you too much. So you're dealing with the most important problem. But once you clear that, if there's other stuff, it'll come and bubble up. And that's just the process we go in. We deal with that, and if something else bubbles up, we deal with that.

[00:38:02] Kate Eckman: Okay, great. This is coming up as you're talking. What would you say to those of us who are doing the work and we are surrounded by loved ones, for instance, who are not doing the work, who are not open to doing the work, who may trigger us more than anyone because they might even bring us back 10 years or bring us back to childhood behaviors, or they still think that we're 10 years old despite our age and our accomplishments and who we are in the world?

[00:38:28] So that's a big one for people. And even now people with different belief systems, a lot of people are upset by that, whether it's friends, colleagues, family members. How do we manage that? Because it's enough to manage our own stuff and have our own capacity and show up for others in a meaningful way.

[00:38:48] So I do this work. So in a perfect world and my Barbie land, everybody is doing this work. And it is such a joyful place, like Barbie land. But then you're doing all this and maybe mom isn't, or dad isn't, or partner isn't.

[00:39:03] Laurel Wiers: Exactly. That's a whole session right there, Kate. But [Inaudible] and short of it is a couple of things with that. One is expectation, again. Knowing what I'm walking into. Don't expect people to be something they've never shown you they're not. So don't think that mom is suddenly going to embrace you and be affectionate when she's been cold most of your life.

[00:39:26] And don't go in thinking, I hope this time. No, you are setting yourself up for failure. If they are not being intentional about their change, why would we expect anything to be different? So again, expectation first is huge. Second is realizing that when it comes to life, we have people we invest our time with and people we spend our time with.

[00:39:45] And so the only people we actually have to spend time with are family. Anybody else who's not feeding us in the way that we need to be fed emotionally, spiritually, physically, you don't have to be with them. So you can choose to say, this is toxic. This doesn't feel good. I choose to create space with that person.

[00:40:05] Family is the hard one that you're like, "I can't cut my family off." But that's where we say we can also limit our exposure. And so I talk with clients about that all the time. You don't have to go there every holiday if it's mucking up the works every holiday. Do one a year. Stay a little bit shorter.

[00:40:22] But also along with it is do your work so that you are less triggered. You go in with realistic expectation, but you also go in there and say, "Okay, I'm going to focus rather on what I can't stand, where we agree and where we do connect, because that can give me maybe two to three hours before I got to bolt."

[00:40:38] Kate Eckman: Yeah, yeah. I'm so loving this conversation and your wisdom and your expertise. I  got to know, having all this training and this skillset, but you're still human and the world is chaotic and crazy. So I'm just so curious how you manage a trigger. Do you take yourself through the process? Even if someone's driving right now and listening, I want to give people the little "30-second fix," or a minute something. Is there a little something we can do? I'm so curious what the expert does when she's triggered.

[00:41:18] Laurel Wiers: Well, I just had to do it the other day as a matter of fact. I had a situation, and so I usually bring myself through this little exercise of, what did this mean to me? So whenever something triggers me, there was a meaning behind it, and I made an interpretation, and that's the interpretation that I need to dig down into.

[00:41:35] And then once I know what it means, then I'm like, "Okay, and why am I reacting to that type of a meaning with it?" And so either it's, okay, what do I feel? So I'm feeling wronged. I'll give you my example. I have to speak at a conference in a couple of weeks, and I'm having all sorts of angst about it and nerves, which is very uncommon because I've spoken before and I've been an adjunct professor.

[00:41:58] I didn't know what was happening. So I got to, what does this mean? And all this stuff about rejection and worth started to come up. And so then I said, "Okay, do your thing, Laurel. Go for a walk." And when you walk, you get bilateral stimulation. And I'm just going to walk and see what comes up as I'm starting to poke around why I'm feeling insecure. And sure enough, I got some imagery from 25 years ago.

[00:42:22] And I was like, "Okay, what did that mean?" And then the same thing I just did with you, I sat with that. I had never held myself and paid attention to what that felt like for me to have gone through that experience. And once I did it, it was like, oh, now that I've acknowledged that, now I can see the situation differently.

[00:42:41] So really, the person driving in the car, it's the same thing they heard us do earlier. What does it mean? What is that triggering in me? Where in my life have I felt this before? And what do I need to acknowledge what happened? And then if it still doesn't go away, I'm just going to go to one of my clinicians in my clinic and be like, "You  got to go use that therapy on me and get that thing cleaned out."

[00:43:01] Kate Eckman: Yeah. And it's so worth the investment, and I love what you just did. And even I found after the LA fires, I really didn't want to talk to anybody, maybe someone else who lives here who's been through it or something like that, or a professional, a trauma therapist. But I didn't want to rehash or tell the story again.

[00:43:20] I did not want to share my evacuation story. It's like, if you want to hear it, here's the podcast, because I just didn't want to go there. See, I know that talking about it-- I just didn't want to do it. And I had sat with the pain and anxiety and fear. But I think that even if you're listening or you're watching, and I'm going to do it again and again, going and sitting.

[00:43:39] For me, it's my 7-year-old, that platinum, white, blonde hair and just sit with her across from her and hold her hands and just saying, "It's okay. I see you. I've got you." How I would talk to my niece and nephew when they were even younger, and how I talk to the dog when it's a thunder from the dog's [Inaudible]. Like, "It's okay, sweetie. Come here. It's okay."

[00:43:58] And you see what that does to the little dog. And so giving that to ourselves, and it might sound weird or awkward for people to be like, "It's okay, sweetie." But it's like, it's okay, sweetie. And it's that notion of re-parenting, but it's something we can do in the car. We can do silently to ourselves.

[00:44:15] We can go for a walk and have that image. And so for me, that's a huge takeaway from this. I know about healing the inner child and all of those things, but that exercise of holding her hands, sitting across from her and holding her hands, even going into my mother's womb and rubbing on the belly and it's like, "Hi, Kate. I've got you." And start nurturing ourselves in this way a bit more.

[00:44:36] Laurel Wiers: Oh, you just are making me so happy because that is so much of the work. It's the easy but hard, the simple but difficult, and it's not silly. That's what I do with my clients all the time. That is where I start before I deal with the memories, which is everything you did. We always see that younger version of ourselves.

[00:44:55] That's the critical memory integration work that I do. And then you hold yourself and you say-- you used it perfectly, Kate, when you said, it's how I talk to my niece. It's how I talk to my dog. Sometimes people have a hard time looking at earlier versions of themselves because they do feel shame or they're angry at them.

[00:45:13] And I'll say to them, "Okay, can you give her what she needs?" And they'll say, "No, I'm mad at her." I'll say, "Okay, so then tell her, 'I'm mad at you and you don't deserve that.'" And they'll go, "No." And I'll say, "See." And then it's like all of a sudden it comes in and I'm like, "Would you say that to your daughter, to your dog, or to your niece or nephew?" and they're like, "No."

[00:45:37] And something about even doing that little bit of that exercise puts them back in touch with that empathy. And I'm like, "Do you deserve any less?" And once they can get in touch with it, then they're like, "No, she doesn't. He doesn't deserve that." And they can extend it to them.

[00:45:50] Kate Eckman: I think that's so beautiful because I can even go back just even a few years and in this, who I am now through the healing is disgusted with, not her, but some decisions that she made or a main decision that she made where it's like, what were you thinking? But then if I step back, I'm like, "I know exactly what you were thinking and that decision you made that now discussed me, and probably discussed her at the time too, it makes so much sense."

[00:46:16] And so I think doing that and then just giving her a hug and being like, "I'm so sorry. I've invested in our wellbeing and in our healing journey here, and the work is working. Look at us now." And so it's all these past versions of us coming together and how formative it is that those things made us who we are.

[00:46:36] And I love who I am now, and so I'm grateful for those past versions. And I think even where we started in that perspective that you gave me of the language that we're using, but then also being able to embrace and love and reparent and accept and see and acknowledge and accommodate her or him or them.

[00:46:58] Laurel Wiers: Yes.

[00:46:59] Kate Eckman: That is the work. And then, yes, I do recommend everyone work with someone like yourself, but that is something that we can do while we're driving, while we're sitting and the husband has a football game on that you're not interested in or you're on your walk with your dog, whatever it is, and giving yourself that time in the shower, in the bath, spending your time doing that instead of, why did I make that mistake?

[00:47:21] Why haven't I gotten this opportunity yet? Why are those people so annoying? Why am I not making more money? I find, Laurel, that when we really love on all the versions, especially those very young versions, the money comes, the success comes, the great people like you enter our lives, and then it all starts to really click and make sense.

[00:47:43] Laurel Wiers: And I love what you said too, which is the why. And I always talk about this. Why is not a great question. Why doesn't bring us any further on the healing journey? Once we know why, we're still there with the hurt and the pain. And so you're right. Why am I not making money? Why is this person doing that?

[00:48:01] So let's move away from why and say, "But what is that like for you when they do that thing and heal those versions of ourselves?" Yeah, you could be a great therapist, Kate, because you got it. You just could have given a seminar on what we talk about, which is we talk about the earlier selves. We talk about reparenting. We talk about accommodating and giving what was not there. You got it.

[00:48:22] Kate Eckman: I'm just so fascinated by this work. And that's why I'm like, just do this programming, have these conversations, put them out there, expand and grow, have a bigger platform to make a bigger impact. It's all happening because I wish these conversations were mainstream. I wish when I went out to eat, I heard people talking about this rather than either couples sitting and not talking at all, or everybody talking about just this dumb surface-level superficial crap. It's like eating junk food all day.

[00:48:51] So that is my mission. And thank you for helping me with this mission because this is my hope for the world. I'm crazy enough to think that we can do it and are doing it because its gold for everybody. Everybody literally wins. So I guess maybe that's my next question, is how are you not triggered?

[00:49:10] Or what do you say to when I have my moments of wanting to shake people and be like, do you know how good life can be? Do you know how awesome your relationships can be? Do you know the millions of people you can impact with this way of thinking and this kind of work? And they are blatantly choosing to not even acknowledge this work, this conversation, these concepts. Do we just have to not care? I would love to hear your thoughts on this.

[00:49:36] Laurel Wiers: Oh, I got some. Yes. We have to realize that our journey is not their journey. We cannot care more than they do, and that the best way to spread it is to let them become so interested in what they see our life looking like that they have to ask the question as to what's different. We can't tell somebody to fix something that they do not see as a problem.

[00:50:01] So just because we know that you have more worth, but you're not complaining about your worth, I might as well just keep my mouth shut. I am not going to bring something to your attention that you are not invested in changing because it's just going to frustrate me.

[00:50:16] Kate Eckman: Wow. And it's as simple as that. That was just a very--

[00:50:21] Laurel Wiers: Oh yeah. It's something I even learned very early on as a therapist and in my family, I have family members. They got stuff. And initially I would always run to their aid and I would tell my parents like, "Oh, we had this great conversation. Things are going to change." And I would see year after year after year that certain things, certain behaviors of theirs, and they would know what I'm talking about, didn't change.

[00:50:44] And eventually, I got to the space that I just had to realize that it was costing me more energy to be upset and to go back and to keep diving in. I was spending more energy than they were. And that I had to understand that for whatever reasons, they in the moment could agree with what I was telling them, but they couldn't carry it out.

[00:51:02] And so then I just started to say this when I would go over there. Be present. Love them. Support them. Hear what they say. Don't expend more energy than they're willing to give. And it's okay if I do it again and again and again because if I am careful with my energy, I'm not going to get angry. It's like I talked about earlier, going to those places and spending three hours rather than three days.

[00:51:25] Just be mindful of what it's going to cost us to be in that relationship. Have realistic expectations. I'm going to talk to them and they're going to agree with everything and turn around to do what they did before. And when I do that, I can just be like, I don't have to be invested in it because they're not. And it's practice, but when you do it enough, it doesn't mean you don't get a little riled up once in a while. But I don't stay there because I just have to embrace that's their journey and it's not mine to be responsible for.

[00:51:51] Kate Eckman: And maybe it's part of what led you to this work and makes you so incredible at what you do, makes you such a lovely woman and human and just really blessing all of us with your presence and your grace and your wisdom. And so I think that's the takeaway for me. I think if everything would've gone my way and I would've been treated "perfectly," no such thing in childhood, for instance, I feel like I'd be living a life that's not at all in alignment with who I am.

[00:52:21] The crap has just made me so much better. I have had enough. I'm like, "All right, I'm ready to learn through joy now." But it has made me a much deeper, richer person and able to see other people's humanity and care about people outside of my race, gender, socioeconomic class, all those things.

[00:52:45] Humanity is my jam. What does it say? I love humanity and most people drive me nuts. It's that vibe sometimes, but you're really giving me ways to, I love what you said. I've been practicing this too because I'm used to, I think even as a TV presenter and everything I do, it's projecting all of my energy outward and just giving it to everybody, or I thought it was my job to make everybody happy.

[00:53:07] And I've stopped doing that because, a, I wasn't getting it back that often. It was exhausting. And then I think when I was in a place of not having anything to give energetically and needing so much support, and there was such a lack of it, the sad realization that I had was, I'm nobody's priority, so I need to prioritize myself. And then from that place, I didn't want to stay there, then I have more to give. But that's the importance of it, because I want to be able to support others. It's important to me.

[00:53:36] Laurel Wiers: Exactly. And think about that. That's just such a picture you even just gave. I was out there pouring to everybody else, but nobody was pouring into me. No wonder you got burnout. That is the formula. And I think it's so great that you could say, "All right. So I need to give myself what I need, but also, that's always a signal, my people, I might need to switch them up a bit."

[00:53:58] And I think people don't realize that either. It's not mean when we've outgrown a group or we've outgrown a relationship. Our needs change. Their needs change. We're allowed to say, this no longer is filling my bucket the way it used to. And a friendship can be a reason, a season, or a lifetime.

[00:54:16] And maybe that was just seasonal, and it's a-okay. And so I love that you're saying, I saw me first, but also maybe I need to start surrounding myself with people who saw me. And we teach people how to love us, Kate. And that's the other thing. When you look at those relationships back in that season where you were feeling empty, did you teach them how to love you well.

[00:54:35] And if we don't teach people how to love us well and we don't speak that because we assume that they know what we need because we're loving them so well, we can get a little resentful. And sometimes it's as simple as saying, this is what I need from you to feel like we have a mutual relationship. Can you do that for me?

[00:54:55] Kate Eckman: And asking for our needs, like going out to the restaurant. My server has no idea that I'm pescatarian and don't want to eat meat. I have to say, or they always ask, what are your food allergies? I like to give a simple example. So we all know we have to tell our server, this is what I would like off the menu, but then it doesn't occur to us to say, "It makes me feel really, really good and loved and special when you send me a good morning text." or, "Laurel, I love when you check in with me every other Friday. It makes me feel so happy."

[00:55:26] And you may be thinking, does she want me to check in with her this often? Am I waking her up? But if I say, "When you text me at 9:00 AM on Fridays, it makes my whole week." You'll be like, "Oh, I'm going to do that because it makes me feel good to share some joy with Kate." And then Kate feels good. I feel good. And then I'm treating my kids better, and I'm showing up more present. So it's these little things, and I don't know why we're scared to ask.

[00:55:50] Laurel Wiers: I think that we assume that when people are in relationship with us, that they know us so well that we don't need to. That's the problem. We do it in marriages all the time, friendships, even in families. Don't you know me by now? Not the right question. Have I shown you who I am well enough that you can give me what I need to feel good in this relationship?

[00:56:10] Kate Eckman: Ooh, that's a good one. That's a good-- say that again, please.

[00:56:14] Laurel Wiers: I don't know that I'll remember it as well. Do you know who I am? No. But have I shown you who I am well enough that you know how to care for me the way that I need you to?

[00:56:23] Kate Eckman: Have I shown you who I am well enough?

[00:56:28] Laurel Wiers: Because sometimes we don't update. All relationships, we have to renegotiate the relationship contract as we change and grow. We don't do that. So we keep giving people what we think they liked, but if they don't tell us they don't like it anymore-- so yeah. And again, it goes back to, how does it make me feel when someone does that?

[00:56:46] Oh, I'm resentful. Well, why? What does it mean? It means that they don't know me because they didn't give me a hug when I walked in the door or they didn't text me on Friday morning like I asked them to. Does it really mean that? How do we know that? Back to even our conversation earlier.

[00:57:01] Well, I would do that for them. No. We better go back and see what messages we're telling ourself about that. And can we very clearly say, did I tell them that this is what I need from them? Or is that some of my old junk coming into play that I need to clear out here?

[00:57:14] Kate Eckman: Hmm. That's something to think about and write down, and everybody go back and listen to that. I love when I have people reach out and it's like, I had to listen to that episode a few times. I'm like, "I know." I've got some quotes. I need the transcript to go, as Oprah used to say, tweet, tweet. I still call it Twitter too, by the way.

[00:57:34] Laurel Wiers: Me too. You're not alone.

[00:57:39] Kate Eckman: I'll take us out soon, and I do want to talk about your book and where people can go pick that up. We'll put it in the show notes. But what is your message to humanity right now with all that people are navigating in uncertain, chaotic times, and as it relates to your beautiful work? I would just love to hear a message as a human, but I'm just so curious what's on your heart to share as it relates to that?

[00:58:04] Laurel Wiers: I say this all the time. If I could get up on a soapbox, what I would say is, the way that you're behaving is not you. It's not the way that you were created or designed to be. You come out, but then life takes a toll on us, and so let's just look at those moments and heal them so you can be the best version of yourself and show up the way that you were intended and created to be.

[00:58:26] Kate Eckman: Boom. We just dropped all the mics. That's so beautiful. What has been just such a fulfilling joyful part of your practice? You have so many success stories. You've helped so many people. Or maybe even share maybe how you've helped yourself with it, whatever you want to share. Because there's so much here, and I want people to hear it so that they know their art, their work, whatever their thing is, it matters and it's impacting people if you just show up and dedicate your heart to it.

[00:58:57] Laurel Wiers: Yeah. My husband would tell you that if you want to hear me get passionate, just ask me about my work and my clients. And I think that we're all gifted. And when we're totally in our flow and we are living out our calling, it never gets old. And so while I deal with different people and different issues all the time, I always say I have the best job ever, to have someone come into me and say things to me like, "Laurel, when I come to my family, I'm a little kid. Everyone sees me as a little kid. Everyone talks over me. No one pays attention to me."

[00:59:29] And after spending two days with someone, they can leave me and hug me and say, "I came in here a broken child, and I left a whole healed adult." There is nothing that you can do that feels as good as that." I gave you your life back and now you get to go fulfill your mission because I fulfilled my mission.

[00:59:49] And so I just think that it's the most beautiful thing to know that I am really part of a process of everybody becoming who they need to be. And so whether it's having someone drive a car again because I processed a car accident with them, or processing through a rape so that you can be intimate with your partner, or whether it's dealing with the fact that you were bullied at seven years old or you fell down on the ice skating pond and that makes it difficult for you to speak in front of people, they're all different and everyone looks at them differently.

[01:00:17] And what I want people to understand is that it's not the event; it's what it does to you. So if you come to me and you say, "Laurel, it's so silly. I don't even want to tell you this thing, but I know it's a problem for me." I always tell people, don't you ever feel that way. Your brain and body only know you. They are not comparing you to anybody else. So it does not matter the event. It's the wound that was left behind. So all I'm going to see when I look at you is the wound. And if I can be part of healing that so that you go forward, it just doesn't get better than that, Kate, honestly.

[01:00:46] Kate Eckman: It's so rewarding. And you're reminding me, I feel like, because of this work, when I see adults, I see the wounded child in everybody now. And it just makes me want to be kinder. And some people, yeah, they drive us nuts for whatever reason because of our hurt inner our child.

[01:01:01] But just extending, I think, that grace and compassion to people and empathy is such a superpower. And sometimes it feels like a curse, how empathetic I am with what's going on. But it is such a gift to do this work, just to show up for humanity in a more profound way and just know that everyone's wounded children walking around everywhere.

[01:01:22] And let's have less actual wounded children by healing ourselves so that we can parent our children better and then they can parent better. If nothing, I feel like it should be-- there's all these prerequisites or when I went back to grad school, I have to take the GRE after being out of college all those years, and it's like, why don't parents have-- parenting is the hardest job in the world.

[01:01:43] Someone's life is in your hands. Can't you at least take a GRE type test or go through some training? Think of all the things we've had to do to keep our licenses and certifications. I just took exams a month ago to keep my certifications. And it's like, parents, come on.

[01:02:00] Laurel Wiers: I know. Anyone can show up and do it and pass down all of your garbage. And that's what happens. But you're right. But I think this is what changes. So even on a very personal note, there's a lot in my family of origin, and I purposed, when I had children, to say, "I'm going to do different."

[01:02:17] But what that meant was healing and making sense. And being, again, intentional about not even doing opposite because I don't feel like that's fair, but being intentional about the outcome that I did want. And I think as every generation does that, how can we not end up differently?

[01:02:32] As people are healing these generational things that happen, at some point, they're going to heal up and stop because you're going to have three generations of children that are healthy who know how to communicate in a positive manner. That's what we want. That's where we should be headed.

[01:02:47] Kate Eckman: That's where we should be headed. And I have to tell you, again, I try to make this fun and sexy, so it's easy, digestible. And there are so many men in America right now in positions of power, and I want to have them on my show for, if nothing else, to just say, who hurt you? What happened in your childhood? I am so sorry. I love you. How can I help? I have this colleague, Laurel. I'm going to connect you, but you see like, whoa.

[01:03:21] Laurel Wiers: The walking moon did. Yes, you can see it. And then to truly be like, yes, they're in process. And do they really want to know?

[01:03:29] Kate Eckman: Ooh.

[01:03:31] Laurel Wiers: Right? Because we could say it, but if it's not a problem for them, why are we invested in changing it?

[01:03:38] Kate Eckman: That's why I'm like, "I need to listen to this again." I'm like, "I need to book some sessions with you because I know, and I am so invested." It's like, again, that gift curse feeling where I care so much and then it's like, girl, if they're not willing to go there, you can't invest in caring about who hurt them in childhood if they can't be bothered. Right?

[01:04:01] Laurel Wiers: Yeah. Absolutely, yeah. If they're not interested, they're not listening. And that's why, again, the relationship is so important. Because when you build relationship, even with that prickly pair, and then they care about you, and then they know that they've hurt you, now you have place to have voice. There has to be investment. But if there's no investment, it doesn't matter.

[01:04:24] Kate Eckman: Yeah. I love that. So people want to work with you. They want to hear about your book. Anything you want to share where people can keep the conversation going, connect with you? I want everyone to work-- it should be mandatory.

[01:04:38] Laurel Wiers: All the parents, sign up. Yes, they can go to my website, laurelwiers.com, and they can book a session with me. It's pretty much just a consult. So I meet with people, and in 20 minutes, they briefly, briefly let me know what's going on, and then I can see if we're a good fit, and we go from there.

[01:04:57] I hang out on LinkedIn. I put content on there. So if people want to get a taste of who I am, they can look up my podcasts on YouTube or do that. And then I have a book that I wrote about, gosh, I think it's 11 years ago now, and it's about infidelity. So if you're going through it or you know somebody that is going through it, or whether you're the person who betrayed or you're the one who's been betrayed, it's a guide just to help people ask the right questions and decide, do I want to try to fix this relationship? Do I want to stay, or do I want to go? And it's called Betrayed Not Broken, and you can get that on Amazon.

[01:05:33] Kate Eckman: Thank you for all the work you're doing to help all of us heal and really be the best versions of ourselves for us, for our families, for our friends, for our colleagues, for the world. You're such a gift, literally. I love that saying, God's gift. You really are God's gift. So thank you so much, and thanks for sharing all of your wisdom with us here today.

[01:05:51] Laurel Wiers: Oh, thank you for having the time to talk to your listeners, truly. I appreciate it. Thank you, Kate.

[01:05:57] Kate Eckman: It was so great, and thanks to all of you for being here, especially until the end. We appreciate you, and we can't wait to see you right back here next week. Have a beautiful day, everybody. Bye-bye.