Lessons from the Greats: Pink Floyd’s Scott Page on the Masters of Creativity

[00:00:00] Scott: I believe right now we're in a world where it's a war between the conscious and the unconscious. Because remember, time is an illusion. It's like you and me talking right now. The only thing that's real is you and me talking. Everything else is an illusion.

[00:00:14] Five minutes ago when I was talking to you, two minutes ago, I can't touch it. I can't change it. I can't do anything with it. Two minutes from now, I can't touch. So this is the only thing that is real. So when we sit and suffer, when we're unconscious, is meaning when we're basically identified with the thought, not with reality. This giant thing opened up in my head, and I realized you don't die. That voice in the back never ages. I'm not the meat suit. I'm not the meat suit. I'm actually something else.

[00:01:03] Ta da! We're going foreign.

[00:01:08] Kate: Oh, we're coming in hot today. Welcome to Rawish with Kate Eckman. I'm here with Scott Page, a legendary musician with iconic bands like Pink Floyd, Toto, Supertramp. And a live musician and being who he is, he's like, "Let's just roll." We're just hitting record. We're here. We're live with you.

[00:01:29] So not how I usually like to roll, but it's a non-prep conversation, and we're going to dive in. Because something that Scott and I have in common that most people probably don't know, it's definitely not that we're both skilled musicians, but we are both very passionate about the topic of consciousness. And even I was just asking Scott, "So tell me what that means to you." And he just said, "Let's hit record and roll." So Scott, first of all, thank you so much for being here today

[00:01:57] Scott: First of all, thank you very much for having me. I'm excited to be here. Our buddy, Marcus, told me all about you, and I'm excited to be here and especially to talk about this topic because I think it rolls into everything we do. It's our business, our family. Everything resolves around what is consciousness. What does that mean?

[00:02:15] I believe right now we're in a world where it's a war between the conscious and the unconscious. So again, what is this? What is consciousness? It means something different to everybody, because remember words are just pointers. They point to something.

[00:02:29] You cannot understand consciousness. The minute you say, "I understand consciousness," you've missed it because you cannot understand it. You can only know it. And it's a thing. So the question is how do I bring more consciousness into my life? Because what I've learned through the years, the more conscious I am, the better everything seems to work.

[00:02:49] Because we get identified with our thinking. We have this issue of identifying with the past, the future, and the illusion of time. Because remember, time is an illusion. It's always now. And people don't understand. It's like you and me talking right now. The only thing that's real is you and me talking.

[00:03:09] Everything else is an illusion. Five minutes ago, when I was talking to you two minutes ago, I can't touch it. I can't change it. I can't do anything with it. Two minutes from now, I can't touch. So this is the only thing that is real. So when we sit and suffer, when we're unconscious, is meaning when we're basically identified with the thought, not with reality.

[00:03:31] Because right now, I could be suffering like crazy. I could be like, "Oh my God, what am I going to do? This is going to happen. Tonight, what's going to--" You can tell I'm going through this whole crazy nonsense in my head. And the truth is, I'm talking to you, drinking my green drink. Nobody's chased me. There's no lion--

[00:03:50] Kate: With your beautiful angel behind you.

[00:03:52] Scott: With my angel behind me, my angel of now. That's presence. Because everything is about presence, and they always talk about awareness. But here's the puzzle. How do I know I'm aware that I'm aware? See, that's the thing we have to figure out. Because your mind or your ego will say, "Oh, you're real. I'm aware. I'm a spiritual guru. I'm totally awake. I'm aware."

[00:04:19] And yet, the next thing you know, you're down in the gutter, you feel horrible, life is terrible, and what happened? I basically turned around and identified with a thought. Unless there's a lion chasing me or something is happening physically. So consciousness really changes the game.

[00:04:34] It changed it for me dramatically. Once I decided to take that inward journey and start going down this, my life completely changed. And what's fascinating is this whole idea of being aware. I read in the books always, be aware. You got to be aware. Okay, awareness. But how do I know? And I noticed that I got fooled. I got really heavily into-- I read a book called The Power of Now, which you probably are familiar with, Eckhart Tolle.

[00:05:01] Kate: We have the same publisher. Yes.

[00:05:04] Scott: I read that book 60 times in a row. I made it my thing. I said, "I'm going to spend my time," and for two years, I listened to it in my car. I read it 60 times, and I listened to it in my car. Every time I get into my car, it was my shrine. And I would pray for traffic because I could get in the car, close the windows, doors, and I could listen to Eckhart talk to me. So after about two years, I was feeling pretty spiritually aware. I'm a spiritual guru.

[00:05:31] Everything's going good. I'm feeling good. Everything's happening. And then April 9th at 10:12, 2011, I wake up in the morning, I rub my eyes, and I go, "Wow, 50 years went by." I blinked and 50 years went by. Okay, you just saw my whole life. I said, "How did this happen?" Because I saw myself in the mirror and I looked and said, "Wait, time is an illusion."

[00:06:03] At that moment, I totally grasped what was meant by somebody saying time is an illusion. Because I've read it in books. It's all talked about by all the great teachers. They all talk about that fact. But it was at that moment I knew what that meant. Because it was a different thing.

[00:06:21] It's like I blinked and I'm here. Like, oh, nothing happened. But here's where it got profound. The difference is the voice that was in the back of my mind hasn't changed a bit. It was the same when I was five years old, and I was at this age. It was the same talking to me, exactly the same.

[00:06:37] So I had this crazy epiphany at that moment. I remember crying just that I was like-- this was this giant thing opened up in my head, and I realized, like I said, you don't die. That voice in the back never ages. I'm not the meat suit I'm not the meat suit. I'm actually something else. But here's where it gets interesting.

[00:06:59] So I decided to go read the book again. The book was 180 degrees different from that moment on. So two years of studying that book, listening to that book, I thought I had it down. But my ego fooled me the whole time. I understood it, but I didn't know it, which is a total different thing.

[00:07:23] Remember, all teachings are pointers. They're words. Words can only point you to where it is. Where you're trying to get to is beyond the words, as something you know. So now, when somebody says time is an illusion to me, totally. There's no question. It is. You blink, you're 50. You blink, you're on your deathbed. It's like that. Boom, boom. What happened?

[00:07:42] I'm here now. It doesn't seem like any time went by. So through that process, I started to get heavy into meditating for a long time, and I used to sit there and stare at plants, for an hour. I would just stare at the plant, meditate the plant basically. All the teachings, all the meditations, all of that point to one thing, a state of no mind.

[00:08:10] No mind, no thought, no labeling, no mind, no anything. And all the time you're trying to go through this and then finally one day I remembered I was staring at this plant, and all of a sudden, thought dropped. And I felt this incredible sense of peace and rush, and then the mind comes back around and says, "What was that?"

[00:08:28] And now you're back into the world. From that point, I tasted. I said, "Ah." That is where the holy grail lies. It's like, again, if you had an orange and you never tasted an orange before, I could say it's tangy and it's sour, but it's sweet. You wouldn't know until you took a bite of that orange. It's the same thing through this.

[00:08:50] So at that moment, I finally got that pointer that was there that happened. So I realized that was it. What happened was thought dropped. I could feel that sense of peace, and it happened. So became a fanatic about this, kept really working on going through this process.

[00:09:10] So I read in this book. This is a good one for everyone here, I think, if you're interested in taking once you're ready for this inward journey. This changed my life. I read in this book that it said as often as you can, every day, during the day, as often as you can remind yourself, stop yourself, put all your tension where you're standing.

[00:09:32] So I'm in my room here, and I'm sitting in my room, my living room, and I'm feeling the same. And then ask this question, what am I feeling right now? Am I feeling any anxiety, tension, or fear at this moment? So when you do that, you look inward to see, well, what am I feeling right now?

[00:09:53] If you're feeling any anxiety, tension, or fear, or unless that lion's chasing you, or whatever, right now, I could be suffering, I realize I'm identified with a thought, not with reality. And every time you do that, you wake up a tiny bit. So the first day, I say, "Oh, I'm going to do it." The next day, "I'm going to do it all day."

[00:10:15] I'm in bed the next night. I went, ahh. I was so asleep the whole day, I couldn't even ask that question once. I could not because I have my emails. I got to go to my thing. I'm thinking about this. What's going on? Got to take care of-- all of these things that basically take you out of reality and put you into a movie.

[00:10:35] So I said, "This is crazy." So I'm going to do it next day. Next day I did it twice, and I said, "This is crazy. I can't get out of thought enough to ask this question." So I ended up putting stickers all over my house. It said, "Wake up." So I go and get my coffee in the morning, open the door, there's a big sign that says wake up. Stop. What am I feeling?

[00:10:56] Kate: Okay, Scott. Let's take a pause here because I can feel people getting a little overwhelmed. This is great, and I'm with you every step, and I love this. But let's even back up a little before you got into being so passionate about consciousness and your thoughts. You were a man who was in the top 1% in terms of talent, success, living the dream, if you will.

[00:11:22] Scott: Definitely got a lucky one.

[00:11:25] Kate: So you're going along on this journey, and for those who don't know, you're such a gifted saxophonist and guitarist. Anything else? What other instruments do you play?

[00:11:37] Scott: I'm mostly known as a saxophone player. I love playing the guitar, but yeah, mostly I'm known for has a saxophonist. And obviously those years with Pink Floyd was a big part of my career that definitely really changed my life. That's a very extraordinary band and brand to be associated with. Learned a ton from David Gilmore, one of my all-time gurus. Learned a lot about business there.

[00:12:00] But yeah, my background is really on the music side, but also as a business person, I've launched four companies. I had a public company and variety of things. So I've been through the gamut of business and entertainment, and technology is my thing. So real a lot around the tech space. Yeah.

[00:12:16] Kate: Okay. So we'll get into all of that and just how people can work with you and learn more about what you're doing and how people can make a successful transition. But I want to just back up a little bit and tell a little bit of your story and how that segued into this passion for consciousness.

[00:12:30] And we got to gently unpack it for people because it is a lot, and I think that's why this so many of us at so many times don't fully go there, because it can be intense. It can be overwhelming. People can say, "What are you talking about?" You have less people to relate to in your daily life, possibly or potentially. So how does one even go about growing up and entering into one of the most iconic musical groups of all time?

[00:13:01] Scott: It's interesting. I grew up in a musical family. My father was a musician. I grew up on this show called the Lawrence Welk show. I don't know if you remember. That was a variety television show. My dad was in that band for 15 years. So I was around music and entertainment growing up, and he was also a serial entrepreneur.

[00:13:20] My father was one of the inventors of the Wah Pedal, the famous guitar pedal. So that's where I think I brought in the entrepreneurship. My dad always taught me that it's always being-- as a musician, I would take any gig I could, whether it paid money,  whether it didn't pay money. I just wanted to be around the business. So I think a big part of it was just going to places, playing where I could, getting to meet people, building those relationships.

[00:13:50] And then through the avenues of playing with one band, talked about another one. So through Supertramp, when I was playing with them, that's how I met David Gilmore, who's the guitar player from Pink Floyd, came in and played on our Super tramp record. We bonded. I invite him to an event. He came out. He called me up to play on some of the Floyd records. Put some solos on the records.

[00:14:13] I went and did that. The next thing you know, he calls me up. He says, "Hey, we're going out. Would you like to join the band?" Actually funny. I didn't know much about the band at the time. I actually almost turned it down because I didn't know much about it because as a saxophone player, I was more into RnB, rock and roll, and less about that type of music. But I'm very thankful.

[00:14:33] My friend talked me into it, and I ended up doing it, which was one of the best smartest moves I ever made, but it was really just through making yourself available, going to things, networking through events and through finding people and getting to know people.

[00:14:47] That's really how it all happened, just moving up through the ladder, just being, again, passionate about it. People can see whatever. I go pretty hard at it. I go through it. And I think for me, what's interesting is I look back now, my life has really been around trying to identify patterns.

[00:15:05] And patterns are really critical. And by that I mean I try to analyze things and then try to figure out-- because in reality, I'm not really that great of a saxophone player when I look at the saxophone players. It's like I don't even want to take my horn out of the case. I feel like a little kid in the corner.

[00:15:23] But I figured out what my best skills were and tried to really focus on those. Even though I didn't have a lot of these other things, I tried to analyze what I needed to do, and I figured it out. So quick story is I wanted to be a jazz alto saxophone player.

[00:15:42] That was my thing. And I got a call from friend. My friend said, "Oh, you got to go get this record. It's called First Flight. It's this guy, David Sanborn. So I went and picked up the record that night at 2 o'clock in the morning from Tower Records when they were open 24/7. Came back, listened to that record.

[00:15:58] It was mind blowing, and anybody out there that knows David Sanborn, he reinvented the sound of alto. At that moment, I realized that I can't play alto anymore. I'm going to have to be in his shadows all the time. Because I started thinking jazz guys. I know Fathead Newman, Lockjaw Davis, Ben Webster, Ike Quebec, Charlie Parker, Canie Burner.

[00:16:17] I can go on and on with the jazz guys. And then I said, what about the rock saxophone players? And then I went like, "Oh, there's King Curtis, Junior Walker." And then all of a sudden the number dropped off. I said, "Ah, I'm going to go be a rock and roll saxophone player." So I completely shifted because I identified the market. And said, "I need to put myself into a place where I have a shot at being more successful.

[00:16:40] It goes back to that entrepreneurial side of growing up. You got to find a problem to solve. Try to use that type of thinking. So I did the same thing with my music, and I figured out everybody else was going ba ba ba ba ba ba ba ba ba ba ba ba ba, all this jazz stuff. And the rock guys are going pa pa pa pa pa pa pa pa pa. Dumb and simple.

[00:17:03] So I realized it's all about wearing your own clothes. So I have found a market, and I just put my blinders on. I said, "That's all I'm going to do." And it worked out because I found my niche. I found my style because I had found what I was good at.

[00:17:21] Kate: It's so interesting because you've had so much success, and you downplay it in a way, and it's just in your DNA and who you are, and you're just doing these silly dumb little riffs while you're in Pink Floyd. But I'm even hearing that part of your success was, a, your father I feel like was a big help to that and how he raised you and the environments that he had you in.

[00:17:48] But we talk about consciousness. You had that consciousness even back then to show up. Oh, you want to play music? Keep playing music, if you will. It was like when luck meets preparation. You have that moment. No, when talent meets preparation, or whatever the saying is about luck.

[00:18:07] But you just did all the right things and then fell into this position where you could be part of something so magical. But what I'm saying is you had the consciousness to allow these things to happen to you. I don't even know if you knew it at the time, but you allowed rather than forced, if that makes sense.

[00:18:25] Scott: Really, for me, it was I realized the gift that was given to me were the right mentors. Most of the mentors that I learned from were just small little things that made me go, "Ah." Because, like I said, I try to analyze things. I try to look at it and try to approach it analytical, logical thinking. Even though I love spontaneous, I love the concept of jazz.

[00:18:54] I like to just be thrown into something and see what happens. Don't want to overthink it, get too involved in it. But I did learn how to create what I call controlled spontaneity. I try to set things up where I do it from a logical point of view, thinking it through. One of my biggest mentors was Diana Ross, believe it or not. Diana Ross was crazy.

[00:19:16] I learned so much from her because I was able to analyze her patterns that she did, the way she did things, the way she moved, the way on a nightly basis, when I was playing with her, that I started to go, "Aha." She could get the audience up on their feet, crazy. Every night, no matter what.

[00:19:35] And then I started watching what she did every night, and there was a set of patterns of things that she did that would make that happen. And so then I went, "Aha." I could use that too. Like I said, always look for patterns. I look to always surround myself with people that are way smarter than me. Because my gift isn't the brain.

[00:19:56] My gift in the company is not necessarily being the smartest guy in the room, but I'm really good at knowing who to call and building a chemistry because my whole thing is about building a culture. When you're doing a startup, it's about building that culture of people that have that same energy. Because it's all energy.

[00:20:13] Everything is about energy. I try to explain that to people because one person can come in and kill the energy. And the whole thing will just go flat. So it's really important to basically build that and make sure you're putting the right people and the right things together.

[00:20:29] That's why it goes back to the conscious thing, is when I go into meetings-- I used to go into meetings all the time, and I would try to manipulate the media to get the deal done. Oh, what can I say to close the contract? What can I do this? I would watch myself once I started becoming more watching my thoughts, because that's what happens through that exercise.

[00:20:48] You start watching your thinking, and then you have that bit me, is there two of you who's watching. But watching myself, I was seeing myself being such a jerk in these meetings. Once I became more aware, I go into meetings with zero expectations. I don't even care if there's an outcome.

[00:21:06] I go in there only to see if it's a good fit. If the energy's right, if the combination's right, it will happen. Everything happens the way it's supposed to happen. Otherwise it wouldn't happen. I try not to force any deals anymore. I don't really care. I don't care about the outcome anymore either. I don't worry about the outcome.

[00:21:25] The only step I've taken is the one I'm taking right now. Because that's the only one that's real. It's the only one I can pick up this glass in. It's the only thing I can actually affect. So my whole thing is just really about figuring out, analyzing, staying awake by watching myself, and not letting myself turn into a nut because it's real easy to do because we believe the movie in our heads when it's not even real, 99% of it.

[00:21:51] Kate: I love this idea of patterns. And if we can use Diana Ross as the ultimate pattern maker that really inspired you, what are some of the things that she was doing that ingrained in your brain? And then we'll talk about how you've implemented it.

[00:22:06] Scott: Yeah. When I first got the gig, I flew to New York. And I remember going into the room, she walked in the room, and I couldn't take my eyes off her. I've been around celebrities. I've been around people, and I get that. But her magnetism was so powerful.

[00:22:22] I was like, "What is it about her?" Now my logical mind going, "What is she doing? Why is this happening?" I start trying to understand it. I remember the first night on the gig, because I was playing in a horn section with four horn players, and we had our charts, our book, so we're having to read music.

[00:22:37] So I remember the first night on the gig. I made nothing but mistakes because I was trying to watch her. And I was screwing up because I was trying to look and see what she was doing, trying to learn. And so I went back, and I studied for two days. I learned the whole book so I could just watch her. And I started watching things that she would do. So here's where it got very interesting. A couple of things.

[00:22:57] I would notice that she would always pick somebody in the front row that she could talk to and really connect eye to eye. She would find somebody down there, I don't know if she was doing this subconsciously or whatever, but it was happening all the time. Because every time I started watching her, I started seeing this repetitive stuff that would happen, but she would find somebody in the front row and make sure she connected.

[00:23:19] So once you have that connection with somebody, you give somebody their attention, they're all like, "Whoa, I can't believe it that she's communicating with me and the people around her." And then she'd find somebody over here. Then she'd find somebody over here. And then somebody in the back row, you couldn't really look, but holding up a sign, she'd be going, "Check the sign."

[00:23:36] She acknowledged it. So she'd go through and acknowledge everybody and make them feel like she was connected to them. There was not just, I'm not just standing up here singing. You're watching this thing. She brought them into the performance and made them feel special.

[00:23:52] That was a great thing because I learned so much of that when I was out how to basically create that same type of thing. Because once you get the people, especially when we're playing stadiums, the people are miles away. So I would always try to find some people in the front that I could have the relationship with through this thing and make it fun.

[00:24:12] What happens is that other people feel that energy. They get it too. So they see it happening. They see me having a conversation with them, even though they're off the stage. So that was a big one. The next one was she had hair. Her hair was--

[00:24:26] Kate: Yes, she did.

[00:24:26] Scott: Big. But when she flew around, her hair would fly around, and the lice would hit it. And I'd go, "I need to get my hair." So I ended up growing it. I had this crazy long mullet, man. Here, I got this in front. You can see there's my mullet. I had this crazy mullet. That crazy mullet, I grew that because of her. And the reason I got a mullet, because I didn't want hair in my face. I didn't want long hair, but I had to have long hair because I knew if I flipped it around, it would get people's attention. So I grew my hair.

[00:24:56] The third thing was, this also helped me, was I realized she was not necessarily the greatest dancer. She wasn't like Beyonce or one of these people that are heavy dancers. She could dance, but it wasn't her thing. She was a singer, entertainer. But what she did is the way she stood. She knew how to hold herself up.

[00:25:15] And then at that time I had a saxophone strap around my neck, and I could see. I could never get into position. So I remember on the road, I went out the next day. I went to the music store and bought a stretch guitar strap, and I basically flung it around my thing, tied my saxophone so that I could stretch my saxophone out to the side and I could get the shapes of my body, because people are looking at you. It's like, how can you become appealing in the way you stand?

[00:25:43] He had fun models and stuff. It's all the way they walk and stuff to create this attention. Now, I've ever seen myself, man, standing in the room, looking in the mirror with my saxophone strap and pushing it down to the side, making sure my shoulders were straight, all this stuff.

[00:25:58] What it did was it changed my whole sense of stage presence. She made me realize all of these little tricks. To this day, it's still part of my whole deal. Except I don't have the hair anymore because I don't want all that nonsense. It's too much to take care of.

[00:26:13] Kate: I know that feeling.

[00:26:15] Scott: Yeah, he was a real learning experience. So she's been one of my all-time from an entertainment point of view. So the point I'm making is understanding these patterns, what things work, that's how I made my whole life work. It's just about trying to analyze and learn from the best.  That's the game.

[00:26:36] Kate: Thank you so much for sharing that. It's such great insight. You're really touching on so many important themes that so many people listening are not Diana Ross or Scott Page are ever going to be performing in stadiums, but we're all the main character and star of our own lives, whatever you're doing.

[00:26:51] So I like that you're giving us practical information. We can use these patterns. A pattern that, I'm curious, it seems like you have is don't overthink it. Even just starting this interview, let's dive in and see where we land, and let's just connect. We ran into each other on the street, which I love.

[00:27:09] But when I think of a brilliant musician like yourself, or Prince just came to mind-- you all look unconscious while you're playing. You look like you're not even trying. It's effortless. Talk to me about that. I've always wanted to talk to you because I've been going to a lot of concerts and I'm like, "You look like you're not even trying it. But this brilliant music is coming out.

[00:27:29] Scott: That's fascinating. When I was playing clubs back in the day I would always record every night. Had my little cassette machine, and I'd set it there on my amp or whatever. And then I'd get in my car, and on my way home, I'd throw it in to critique myself, to see if I was out of tune, if I was rushing, dragging, listening to my play.

[00:27:48] And I remember I would do that for seven years, eight years, all the time every night, every gig, everything. And I remember during that period of time, there was four or five times when I listened back and went, "Oh, that's me? I couldn't believe it. I played stuff that I had no idea. I was studying practicing all day and night.

[00:28:08] So I'm constantly playing. But all of a sudden, I played stuff that I never heard myself or didn't think about, didn't whatever. And I could never understand that. How did that happen? And then as I got more into taking that spiritual journey, I realized what had happened then is my thought dropped.

[00:28:25] I wasn't thinking anymore. The flow state or whatever you want to call that spot would happen. And so even today, when I go play, I try to explain to people, when I go play it's my opportunity to get closer to God, the source, or nature, whatever somebody wants to call it. Unfortunately, I don't like to use the word God because it creates a duality. It's like me and God.

[00:28:55] I'm a non-dualist. It's all one thing. I'm God. You're God. We're part of this universal mind thing that's moving hot. It's like, can't explain it, but understanding. Yeah, so I remember that, and I realized that was the case that it happened. So now, through the years of meditating and practicing, I can now stop thinking like that.

[00:29:16] I know how to do it. I know how to flip the switch. And it's stupid simple. It's really simple, but yet very difficult. It's one of those things that once you grasp it, you're like, "Oh, you're kidding me? That's it?" But that's the practice of going in there. And now with music, when I go to play it, I want to go to that space because then I'm just surfing across the chord changes and just getting to play.

[00:29:44] It's a space of no time, no anything. There's no thinking. I'm not thinking about the notes I'm playing. I'm not doing it. And so that's why when I go to play or I love playing so much is because it allows me to get to that space. And there's no suffering. It's the most beautiful thing there is.

[00:30:01] And what's beautiful about it, is when you start dropping your thought, there's such a sense of peace, and that's why for me it's the most important thing. Because all I care about is inner peace. Because if I'm peaceful, the whole world can collapse behind me, but that's okay, as long as I'm peaceful. And again, especially once you take this path and you get to that point, then you realize you're not the thinker. You're actually more of the watcher.

[00:30:26] And that piece of it is this is just material thing that happens. Your whole life changes in a direction where you don't try to force things. Life becomes much more playful. And you actually start looking for things, which is funny, to go wrong, so that you could see how you handle it.

[00:30:43] Kate: What I'm hearing is that you're stepping out of  self-consciousness, which is the doubts, the fears, not connected to a higher source. So stepping out of that and stepping into that higher consciousness. we all want to do this, and sometimes we're there and sometimes we're not. Again, I always find myself in that higher consciousness when I'm doing things I love, like an interview like this, when I'm writing, when you're with a romantic partner and you're connecting, or you're in nature, whatever just came to mind for you as that thing. And you're letting go of all the crap and the social media likes, and engagement and that sort of thing.

[00:31:20] So for people in their everyday lives, again, who aren't involved in music or something or creativity, how can we get out of that  self-conscious, the fear, doubt, and all of that, and step into that flow state of you playing on the stadium with your instrument?

[00:31:36] Scott: Yeah. Listen, what I'm talking about has nothing to do with playing stadium. It doesn't matter. This is really an inward journey. So the first thing is, it's got to become important enough that you take it on seriously. Because I can just tell you, through my early spiritual journey, you get things start feeling so, but then you start dropping off in that studying.

[00:31:57] Because everything starts going good, then you get smacked, and then you're down. For me, again, it got to a point where inside suffering could be the greatest-- there's that seed of grace, if you look for it. So, so often, it's the suffering that drives somebody in to say, "No more suffering. I can't take it anymore."

[00:32:19] For me, it happened at a period of time where, not that I would have horrible things, but I was suffering mentally so much because even though I had all these things, it wasn't enough. It wasn't what I really wanted. I thought I'd be here by then.

[00:32:34] Kate: [Inaudible]

[00:32:34] Scott: You start just beating yourself up, even though I had a house and cars. I was eating. I had nothing to complain about. Play with the biggest bands in the world yet I was suffering mentally. I couldn't practice. I couldn't study. I couldn't think because it was constantly beating myself up because something didn't happen that I thought was going to happen.

[00:32:53] And what happened was is I had got a call from a friend of mine who had three beautiful children, his wife, and they left. And that was devastating. Was my best friend. He started talking to me, and he started telling me, he says, "Man, I ended up going to this thing," which is one of those type of-- you remember there was these types of things like S and-- whatever. This was called Insight.

[00:33:16] It was one of those things where there are 100 people in the room for four days, and you basically get torn down through a process and then you get built up again. It's a way to really take an inward look. And I did it because I was suffering so much. And he said, "Dude, that changed my life. I've got passed all this stuff. My wife, the kids, everything's good. It was because I went to that."

[00:33:38] It was my birthday. I said, "I'm going to go do this for my birthday." So I went and did that, and it was life changing, mainly because it made me take an inward look, made me be vulnerable, because that's what it does. It tears you apart, brings you out, and then brings you in another thing. Now, some people go through that, and it lasts a little bit, and they do good, and then they slip.

[00:33:59] For me, it just sent me on this journey, like I just said. I can remember right now, that night, after I finished those four days, it was 2 o'clock in the morning. I was walking through my neighborhood, and I live up in the woodlands, and I'm looking at the trees, and I felt like I was this high off the ground. But nothing changed.

[00:34:15] The only thing that changed was how I was identifying with light. It was so shift. That was what took me on that journey. So that's what pushed me into it. Now, maybe this will be a pointer for somebody. What works for me really well as far as how to access that state. So for me, this is how it works.

[00:34:36] Take a plant. Anything that you look at. I like plants, or I like animals, whatever. Plants are good. When you look at the plant, instead of putting all your attention on the plant that you're looking at, I'm staring at the plant, put all your attention on the stillness and silence that surrounds everything. When you start bringing your attention on that, you can start to feel the silence, the stillness.

[00:35:02] The tree could be windy, blowing like crazy. But when you put your attention on the thing that surrounds everything, there's quiet, the stillness, that all this noise happens in the movement, all of a sudden, as you start to do that, because you're putting your attention on no thing, there's no thing.

[00:35:24] What is stillness? What is silence? There's no thing. It's not like, "Oh, I'm putting my attention on a tree. I see the tree. I'm creating a thought of that tree," which is what keeps you trapped. You want to get past that. So for me, when I put my attention on anything now, whatever I look at, and I want to pull myself into that state, I bring my attention to that stillness and stuff.

[00:35:45] And you can tell how you're doing because you start to feel a peacefulness. As you start to slip into this space, you feel this sense of peace. Because what causes all this tension is the thoughts in your head. Like, oh, no, what's this? I'm all tensed up because I'm worried about something that's going to happen a week from now, or I'm pissed off because something happened to me yesterday.

[00:36:09] It's all that identifying with time. Time is our problem. Time is the issue. The illusion of time is our issue. We suffer because of time. It's past and future. And once you realize that those are just what gets you caught up in thought, you flip that by doing that exercise I mentioned, by doing that.

[00:36:29] Every time you do that, you wake up a little bit until you get to that point. You go, well, who's watching? Who's asking these questions? Who's looking at me right now? And you go, "Is there two of me?" That's the big one. When you go, "Wait." And then as you start to do that more, you start to realize things like-- I used to do a ton of charity events, and I thought I was doing it for the charity.

[00:36:49] It was a total lie. I was doing it to make me look good, to make me feel good, like I was doing something of value. More about my ego than actually about the thing. Once I realized that I said, "I'm a nut." That's why I love in the Bible, is forgive for they know not what they do. Credible pointer.

[00:37:09] The other one that's great, and this is the one, to enter the kingdom of God, you must have the mind of a child. Remember, children, they've got no experience. They're just wide-eyed. They're just absorbing the moment. They're not like, "Oh, I've got to go pay my bills. I got to do all that stuff that happens." So those are great pointers that says, "Aha." That's where the Holy Grail lies. It's in the cracks. It's not the words. Words are just pointers. It happens in between, and you can't understand it. You can only know.

[00:37:39] Kate: That's just in getting more into awe and wonder and taking a pause from all of the adult responsibilities. But when you were talking about the plan, it reminds me of an exercise that I have done from A Course in Miracles about looking like, for instance, an object in your house. The chair itself means nothing, whether it's the cheap broken-down chair that's going to break when you sit in it, or the 18,000-dollar chair from Restoration Hardwood or something.

[00:38:07] The chair is it's only the meaning that we give the chair, whether it's beautiful, ugly, important, trashy, whatever adjective we give to it. And so so many times we think we're upset because this person said this thing, or the weather is crap, or I'm making this amount of money. But it's the meaning that we give to these things.

[00:38:28] And as the universe would have it, literally, Scott, just yesterday my coach was saying something to me about-- we were talking about finances, and she said, "Even if you have more money than anyone in the world, more money that you would ever know what to do with, if you have not healed your lack mentality, your feelings of unworthiness, have not healed patterns-- again, patterns-- from childhood around scarcity, it won't matter.

[00:38:52] You even spoke to it. You have $100 million in the bank. It's not enough. I'm not doing enough. I'm not good enough. I need to have 200 million in the bank. So I like that we're talking about these things because I think a lot of people look at someone like yourself and think, "Oh, he's the pinnacle of success."

[00:39:06] And here you were in your success and filled with all these negative emotions, and depression, and things. And it was because something in you needed healed. And then that's why you went on this healing journey to expand your consciousness.

[00:39:20] Scott: I projected something that I thought I wanted. Remember, the suffering is about putting the goal out there and then going after the goal and then everything shifts. And then you suffer because, "Oh, I'm not going to get the goal. I've put all my time and everything in hitting that goal." And when I try to explain to people, it's fine to have a goal, but it's not about the goal.

[00:39:40] It's about the ride. The only step that matters is the one you're taking right now. And as you become more aware, that thing, how do I know I'm aware that I'm aware? Remember, I got fooled. I thought I was the most aware person for two years and to find out I completely missed it. I was the most unaware. I was the most asleep.

[00:39:58] That's why I even talk about the new age movement to me, is been hijacked. What I mean by that, morals have been hijacked. Now it's like turning in a whole other thing. We go, "I could talk to you about Burning Man." That's a whole other thing, to me, which is interesting, but that's because the ego is easily manipulated to make people feel things are specific ways when the truth is it's here. We all have it.

[00:40:24] Everybody's in this space, and it's just a little quarter turd of the screw just to get everything to align. And once you get to that point where you don't want to suffer anymore, that's what I mean. I just said, I don't want to suffer anymore. I'm done. I'm going to do something about this mental suffering that I'm going through. And then I just started realizing it was all in a loop.

[00:40:44] It's crazy. I had more to be thankful for, more to be grateful for, because I guarantee you will not find one person on the planet more thankful and grateful than me. I guarantee you there's nobody on this entire planet. I am the most thankful. Everything that happens to me, I get hurt and go, "Oh my God. I'm so thankful." That's it. I only broke my thumb. Thank you for only breaking my thumb. Because things could be so much worse.

[00:41:10] If you look at things in your life, if we always stay thankful and grateful, we start to see things a little differently. So it's really changing that mindset to be able to watch your thinking. That is the big one to go. You want to watch what you're saying, hear yourself think, but when you take that point of view, you realize that you're seeing yourself thought, but there's something else that's watching it and controlling it.

[00:41:38] That's that separation that happens, that first inkling. And that is the key, is to become the watcher, not the thinker. And getting that, breaking point, that's that thing, and it takes time. And that one exercise, every time you ask that question, you do, you start examining yourself. You start watching yourself. It breaks it. You wake up for a little sense, but you got to have determination.

[00:42:01] Some people can fall into it, but most people like myself, it took years. I did this. It was 2011 for eight years, nine years, devoted, going in, getting it done. And then the switch that April 9, 10:12 morning, that was it. That was where the whole thing shifted, and then all that work I put into it, I finally understood now-- not understood. I knew what was being said by those words, what that was pointing towards.

[00:42:24] Kate: And what was your inspiration really besides feeling miserable, depressed, dissatisfied, or whatever emotion it was that was enough for you to, instead of turning to drugs, alcohol, or some other vice-- because a lot of people go down the debauchery route, and we're seeing this a lot in our culture. And it's heartbreaking. You chose this higher consciousness route.

[00:42:54] Scott: I've had more fun than any human being, and I'm alive to talk about it. So all those crazy things, I've been there. I've done that. I'm not trying to hide about Mr. New Goody Two Shoes by any means. Trust me. I've seen it all. I've been part of it all. I've gone through a lot. It's not that. I realized that--

[00:43:15] Kate: I was down the debauchery path and then I took a left on consciousness street, to be clear.

[00:43:20] Scott: I'm a rock and roller. I'm a rock roller. My God. Are you kidding me? Like I said, I've seen it all. Busted. But I'm good now though. I'm good now. I got past all that. I was lucky that--

[00:43:38] Kate: That's an even more important question then, because you had all the resources in the world to really partake in an ultra-debaucherous road, and you did indulge in that. So then how do you go from that, I guess, unconscious path to such a conscious path?

[00:43:55] Scott: I was lucky because the things that I did I never got hooked to. It was one of those things you go up, you go down, and go up. It was more about that time when my friend called me. I was suffering pretty hard at that time, where I was in my life.

[00:44:10] And at that time, the image I had imagined that I would be at that point, and that just drove me into a weirdest thing. Like I said, I would try to practice. I'd last five minutes. My mind would get involved, and I could not put any attention on anything long enough to really get into it because I was constantly beating myself up. I was just beating myself up all day long. I'd wake up, and I just beat myself up, talk to myself in the wrong way, just keep constantly doing that.

[00:44:40] Because remember, what you put your attention on grows. You put your attention on you're not good, you're not happening, you're not going to be good, you're not going to be happening because you're telling yourself all day long that's exactly what you're thinking. That's who I am. And we then identify with that thought, that idea of getting out of it is the most key to becoming conscious. Allows you to free think again.

[00:45:07] And if you see the loss of free thinking, I don't think we've seen it more than ever right now between the political parties, what's right, what's real, what's not real. We're going through a whole thing where people are having a hard time free thinking anymore and stand back and say, "Wait a minute. Let's look at the data. Let's analyze it without any emotions in it. It's just data."

[00:45:28] But now we can't do that because whoever controls the algorithms controls the people. We're watching how bots and things like this can push messages out to people. They can just make them get [Inaudible]. You see it enough times, that becomes real to you. And so we're now getting to that, I think, where people are starting to wake up and seeing what's real, and they're going, "Wait a minute. What's happening around me? This is crazy." So I think a lot of that's happening.

[00:45:56] I think we are in a real awakening period in the history of humanity right now. There's so much things going on, especially when you look at AI coming on. Again, I'm a tech guy, so I live in the world of Web3, AI. Everything I do now is around the blockchain and crypto, NFTs, and mean tokens.

[00:46:15] So there's a whole new shift that's starting to happen. And I think we're moving into what I'll call hives. I want to say, if you want to survive, you got to build a hive. I try to teach that. The business is it's really now about creating that group of people. And now we have tools and technologies like the blockchain, like NFTs to basically support these new business models. So the main thing is getting out of your own way. So I believe the most important thing, the only thing that's going to solve humanity's issues, if they've become more conscious.

[00:46:43] Kate: Okay. That's a perfect transition because a lot of my listeners are going through a life transition or have been through transitions, and it can be a little rocky as you know, and uncertain, and scary. Talk to us about that transition from musician to businessman and space and all these incredible concepts that you're working on and any insight that you can give because it's an up and down journey, as you know.

[00:47:07] Scott: Oh, yeah. Big time. And then again, measuring how do I know how aware I actually-- where am I in the consciousness cycle? I'll explain that just because I think this is important. You can start to see how you're doing because, remember, spiritual ego is probably one of the most dangerous things there is out there right. Because your ego can make you feel like I'm invincible. I'm a god-loving, spiritual person. Yet, don't do that. I'll beat you up.

[00:47:34] It's like we have what I call hate in the name of love. It's okay for me to hate because I'm doing it because I'm so loving. That's a trap. It's like, I'm doing this because I'm so conscious. I'm so kind. I'm so aware, but I'm actually hating somebody or something else, but it's okay.

[00:47:53] That's the dichotomy [Inaudible]. The real thing for me is instead of going real wide, like reading a book, why I took one book and I read it over and over-- because I can tell you, when I read the Power of Now, every time I read it, it was different. Every time.

[00:48:16] Each time I read it, it went deeper and deeper and deeper until finally the day came that I had the freaking switch, and I finally grasped the teaching, and that was a big moment. So how you can tell how you're doing is it's from an example. I remember I went to a club and played my gig that night.

[00:48:34] It was out in Long Beach, and I got in the car, turn around, finished up, get closed down. It's about 2 o'clock in the morning. I'm driving. I get about 15 minutes, and I reach over my phones. Where's my phone? You know what it's like when somebody loses their phone.

[00:48:47] Kate: The worst.

[00:48:48] Scott: Oh my God, you go into this panic. Everything's on my phone. So I said, "Oh man, I must have left in the club." So I went back to the club, turned around, went back there. Pound on the door. The cleaning guy came up. I said, "I couldn't find it anywhere. It was gone." I'm like, "Okay, funny." So I turned around. I started walking back to my car, and then the guy goes, "Mister, is this it?" He found the phone, and I got in the car. And what I realized at that moment, it didn't take me over.

[00:49:16] I just accepted what is, went there, and it didn't-- so what happens is you can tell in your journey some people go, "Oh, I'm high. I'm really good. I read the books. It's all this." And then something goes wrong. I go down. Now I'm in the gutter. Well, how long am I in the gutter? Am I in the gutter for an hour, a day, a week, a month before I pull myself up again?

[00:49:35] So you can tell how you're doing because what happens is as you're going, it's okay. I'm doing good. And then something hits me. Oh, I go down. But then I start to come back up faster. And the more you start to do this, because every time you suffer, you realize that's an opportunity to wake up. Through that suffering is a wake-up call.

[00:49:52] It's that opportunity. So as you do this more, you'll see your life will go like this. It's like this and then it starts to do this, and then it finally goes and it goes, okay. I just accept life as it is. And when that happened, I remember sitting in the car. I cried like a freaking baby when I sat in that car because I didn't realize that I just went through the motions, and there was no suffering. Happened to me again.

[00:50:17] We played jazz fest this year. I played the gig. I had a gig that night. I did the gig that night, and I was supposed to play four other shows. I lost my phone. Couldn't find it. Nobody could get a hold of me. I didn't know what hotel I was at. I missed my gigs. I just said, "Okay, it's gone." And I said, everything happens the way it's supposed to happen.

[00:50:33] So the next three days, I just walked around New Orleans with no phone, no matrix. I was out of the matrix. And I was like, "Okay." So the point was it was a learning experience because at that point I get to see how I'm going to react, if I let me take me over and I go crazy. Now, I tried to get another phone. I couldn't get one because I didn't have my apple ID, and it was crazy. I just said, "Okay, that's fine."

[00:50:57] And missed all my gigs. Did the whole thing. No uber. No cars. I just hung out hotel, walked all over news, and I was fine with it. And then I got home which was fascinating and then I had to get another phone. And I was like, "Dude, I don't want that phone. I don't want to have that next to my bed anymore."

[00:51:14] I was finally getting settled into the fact that everything's going to keep on going. Everything's going to be fine. But of course, I had to get the phone because I got work and business things that I have to take care of. But yeah, the most important thing is getting to that point where you don't want to suffer anymore.

[00:51:31] You just don't want to suffer anymore. And you want to change it. And the more important is for you, if you have family and you have kids, you, me, and everybody out there, your only job is to help consciousness unfold. That's it. You have no other job. Everything else is answering. But that's how important you are, is to help this thing unfold.

[00:51:55] Kate: Let me pause you for a second. Help consciousness unfold. For people listening who don't understand what you mean, how can we help consciousness unfold, and why is that so important right now?

[00:52:10] Scott: Well, because we get out of the matrix. When we're locked in the matrix, meaning-- look at these cell phones. These things are the worst. You're in this. The consciousness is where you become more, I'll say authentic is what I mean, because it's easy to say, "Hey, I love you. I'm a charity-minded guy. I care about charity." But do you really? Or is it more I'm doing it because my friends are going to look at me as a good guy and I'm a giving, loving guy?

[00:52:37] I'm really just telling that story. So the more you start having these types of little adversities and it forces you to start taking a more inward look at yourself, that's it. So consciousness is really becoming more aware but more about the moment, less about what's lost in the movie. Because I'm telling you, people wake up. They're in a movie, man. I see myself going. I'm going to be here one day. I can see the movie, how it's going to unfold, and all of a sudden the movie goes the wrong direction. And then it's like, oh, to stay and suffer thing.

[00:53:10] So the most important thing is getting to that point. Now, here's what's going to happen. At least it happened to me. I started taking this path, and I started feeling so good. Then I started dropping the exercises. I didn't keep going because I thought I already gotten there. And then just to find out that it's just like exercise. A lot of people go to the gym, and they work for a while and then they start feeling so good.

[00:53:28] They drop off a day, two days, and now they're not going to the gym anymore. Same problem here, but it's okay. Because what's interesting about this is this journey, no matter what, if you drift off and go away, once you come back into it, you're right back where you left off. It's amazing. It just takes you where you are on that journey.

[00:53:46] So the most important thing is just saying, I want to make that change, because that's the choice. And that choice is devoting your time and your efforts to it, and using it all day long. So it's like when there's things that are upsetting me, I'm watching things that would normally upset me, I watch myself, and I make sure I don't get upset.

[00:54:07] And I'm like, "Okay, good. I just knocked one off. Start simple." Instead of letting the thing. Because once you realize that thing that happened to you yesterday you can't change, you can't do, now you have to deal with it. But the question is, do I deal with it with all this anxiety and hate, pissed off, and I can't make things happen?

[00:54:27] Or do I just go, okay, that happened to me? That's it? That's all that happened to me? That's the worst thing that's happening me right now? I'm very thankful for that because when I look at the world, you, me, we're all living better than 1, 2% percent of the planet. A lot to be thankful for.

[00:54:44] Kate: Yeah, there's a lot to be thankful for. And so it really sounds like a perspective shift and reframing that can serve us. Something that's come up for me recently, I would love to hear your thoughts on this, true or false, and expand on it, please, the more authentic we become, the more conscious, if you will, the less friends we will have. True or false?

[00:55:04] Scott: What I'm saying is you're going to have different friends. Different friends happen. Because for me what happens is you become a magnet and then you start attracting those like-minded people around you, other people in that space. Like I said, right now we're getting ready I'm building a business, and all I care about is the culture. I just want to make sure I find the best people and I give them the best scenario where-- again, I always think about the whiff of what's in it for me.

[00:55:33] I have to always put myself-- what do they look for? What I can do is I say, I don't know where the company is going to go. I can't guarantee you anything, but I guarantee you a great ride. Because we're going to all go. We're going to be high fiving each other. We're going to get up. We're going to work, and we're going to enjoy the ride.

[00:55:48] I'm all about the ride. That's all the most important piece to me because the money, at the end of the day, and stuff is going to be there. It's easy because I can afford food. I can do it. I get it in those circumstances. But even that, once you get out of that mental noise, you can start seeing. You can start making sure you put yourself in situations where you're going to meet the right people.

[00:56:12] Kate: I think part of that is that we're no longer a match for certain energies. But I like what you said that it's better friends. Because in my experience at times it can be a lonely or isolating journey when you step into that power, if you will, of being who you really are. And I think it's threatening and intimidating to some people who are scared, unwilling or unable to put in the work, to embrace their authenticity.

[00:56:36] Scott: Yeah. We'll see that what ends up happening is, remember, you become what you're around all the time. So if you're going to be around dark energy or negative energy, it just pulls you into it all. That's why consciousness unfolding is so important, because we're talking about a different thing.

[00:56:53] We're talking about a system that aligns with the Fibonacci sequence, nature. Nature has a way that it rolls. Energy flows in certain ways. We now know through quantum mechanics and all this stuff we're learning about through the Heisenberg Principle, which is now aligning with what the great mystics, the great avatars, the great teachers or spiritual concepts and things through the years are now aligning with science because we're starting to see how energy changes the game.

[00:57:19] So it's all about energy. So if you change the energy that you're around, it just starts lifting you up. So for me, I only want to meet those people. That's where I go. And they attract because we have a common wavelength. I know now you and me are going to be pals because we're on that same thing.

[00:57:38] It's like there's a common thing that realizes that energy is everything. If you're building a business, you want the energy all moving in the right direction. You throw the wrong things in-- that's why found through businesses. And I've done this so many times.

[00:57:53] I hired somebody that was so good at what they did, and they got ingrained in it, but they ended up turning out having bad energy in the company because of the way they handle people, the way they talk to people. But yet their skills are so good that I can't imagine being without those skills. So I would try to make it work and make it happen because I know how important they were to the skills.

[00:58:17] But then I realized the most important thing, you just destroyed the whole vibe of the company because I'm keeping you in that position. And now everybody's talking, and the energy got messed up. So now I know that if it's not going to fit with the team, I don't care how good you are, it's not going to make any difference.

[00:58:33] It's going to just screw the ride up. The ride's not going to be any fun, and I'm going to be fighting all this time. And then it's like, well, why? Because I'll find somebody up. The right person will come with the right skills. They'll come in. So that's a hard lesson to learn, especially when you're building a company.

[00:58:47] You want to sometimes hire the best person from a skillset, but if they don't have the right mental attitude or the right energy level coming into the company, they could destroy it. I've seen it happen time and time again where I've had mutinies. People come in, and what a mutiny.

[00:59:04] Kate: It's so true. And even our interpersonal relationships, friendships, romantic partners, family members are so important because being with the wrong partner, whether it's friend or romantic, it can really be debilitating. But that's why, first and foremost, it starts with us. And that's the work I do. I don't make it about anybody else ever anymore.

[00:59:24] It's for me doing the work where I'm a vibrational match for best of the best and business, love, and friendship, and really connecting with people who see me because we're vibrating in the same place. So it's so important. I think that's why we connected initially. It's just, I get you. You get me. And it's the best feeling because it is that feeling of home, safety, and belonging. And it's a gift that we can first give ourselves and then give to others.

[00:59:51] Scott: Yeah. You can feel it in people when you can see that they're truly thankful and grateful. You can see it. My whole thing is forgiveness. Remember, forgiveness and surrender, the same thing in a sense. I cannot surrender unless I forgive, and I cannot forgive unless I surrender.

[01:00:10] Kate: Yeah.

[01:00:11] Scott: They work together. So those are the big ones, and that's why when I think of that profound statement out of the Bible, forgive for they know not what they do, what that's telling you is everybody's connected to this ego, this thought, this thing, and that's who they imagine themselves in.

[01:00:25] Remember, it's programmed. You're programming a movie in your head. And the point is how do I get out of that and actually become that, and that's that the state of consciousness, is actually breaking free. But be careful. Your ego will tell you you broke free. And you will find out. And how you tell is, Am I up? Am I down? Am I up? And I'm down.

[01:00:47] The more you get it to [Inaudible]. And it's okay. Remember, it's okay to not feel good or not be happy, or one of those things. That's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about how much do I identify with it so it makes my life miserable? I'm going to go down. I'm okay. I'm down. Okay. But I'm going to get back up.

[01:01:07] Kate: For me, if they know not what they do though, God bless them, and I wish you well. And we don't need to hang out. So that's my little edit on that Bible verse. But Scott, you've lived such an extraordinary life. When you look back on all of it, what are you most proud of?

[01:01:24] Scott: What we're talking about. There's nothing more important. Because now I don't suffer like I used to suffer anymore. In that freedom of non-suffering because I just don't-- and again, don't tell me. I still have hard times. I catch myself. We all do. But when it happens, I step out and I go, "Okay. Don't do that."

[01:01:47] And I can transmute that back into just a sense of peace. If I said anything, that would be the most important thing that's ever happened to me, because I'm having this conversation with you, and I know other people I've had the conversation because I'm doing my job, helping consciousness unfold by just having this conversation.

[01:02:06] And doing that is, that's the gift. And so for me, whenever I talk to somebody specifically that we're connecting on at this level, that is the gift because I love that fact when somebody wants to have this conversation. Because again, for me, it's the only conversation that matters.

[01:02:23] The rest of it is all nice, it's fun. It's great, and life is a blast, but at the end of the day, inner peace, feeling peaceful and understanding love, not from a, what is love? What is all this stuff? And that comes from a knowing, not from a understanding. Because remember, once we start labeling things, then we miss stuff. All those labels are just pointers to something that happens beyond that. And that's the puzzle to solve.

[01:02:52] Kate: I'll solve a puzzle with you any day. I feel like we could have this conversation forever, like up all night, exploring these concepts. Last thing before we head out here. I'm so curious. I have to know. I'm sure others are too. Favorite Pink Floyd song that you performed on.

[01:03:07] Scott: Oh, I love playing Us and Them. Because it gets to be all saxophone, and it's like a place to really shine. I love playing ballads too. So I love that song. And then Dogs of War was another one, my solo on that. I'm pretty proud of that. I did two takes. That happened at the time. So that was great. And that's another whole interesting-- and it all came down to what we're talking about. Put me in a frame of mind when I went and did that that was there. But that's for another show. We'll do that another time.

[01:03:41] Kate: Yeah, you'll have to come back. And I would love to discuss that because when I think of Pink Floyd, it's interesting now that we're-- the universe, y'all make me laugh up there. When I think of Pink Floyd, I think of expanding my consciousness. And I have to tell you, when it was COVID and the lockdown, and I'm like, "I need to get outside and get some fresh air," for whatever reason, the song I kept listening to on repeat was Take It Back by Pink Floyd.

[01:04:10] And it, without drugs, alcohol, anything, put me in a different consciousness, a much more pleasant one than was COVID in New York City. So thank you for that. And it's interesting that we're talking about consciousness when Pink Floyd is expanding your consciousness, at least for me. So that's a beautiful--

[01:04:26] Scott: It did a lot of people too. It's interesting because actually when I got the gig, I didn't know anything about him. I was not a fan. I didn't really know. I remember they had a song called Have a Cigar. That was all I could remember. And now the biggest fan on the planet, because now it's a whole different thing.

[01:04:40] And that's why with Gilmore as a guitar player, he's the master of melody and soul. He never plays a lot of notes. You never hear him go-- he never does any of that. It's always ta ra ra ra ra, singing like a singer, which is fantastic. And so yeah, that's all good energy and stuff, and it's fascinating. Now looking back at the lyrics, it's so much of the Floyd stuff, how profound it was to the times that we're in right now. Right?

[01:05:06] Kate: Yes. Timeless and so profound. You're right. It's been in so many phases of my life, and I keep going back to it. And whenever it comes on, it takes me to such a peaceful place. It gives me that deep thought. It chills me out. So I'm going to go listen tonight too because I like to listen to my beats and change my consciousness.

[01:05:25] So it's a full-circle moment here. We were the consciousness, Pink Floyd, what it all means. You will have to come back, and we'll talk on the radio show too because it's fascinating to explore all of this with someone who's willing to go there with me. So thank you so much, Scott Page, for being here.

[01:05:41] Scott: Thank you. Thank you, Kate, for having me on your show again. I love talking my favorite subject. I usually do a lot of podcasts, but it's all about business and Web3, where the models are going, what's the new thing AI. I talk all about all that stuff. Like I said, this is one of my favorite topics-- is my favorite topic. So when I get a chance to do this, I'm very thankful.

[01:06:00] Kate: Thank you. You made my day. Again, when I'm in this space, nothing else matters, and I'm Metallica, getting into another great man. But nothing else matters, and I just appreciate the connection so much and raising my consciousness, and everybody watching too, I hope you feel that elevated consciousness and keep listening again. You might need to go back and hear some of these things. And please reach out with any questions for Scott and me. We're happy to answer and keep you connected. So thanks, everyone, for being here. Thank you, Scott. We'll see everyone next time.

[01:06:30] Scott: Thank you so much. Bye. Thank you.