Life After the NFL: Gus Frerotte on Leadership, Brain Health & Finding Purpose

[00:00:00] Gus: Not many people dream of something and get to do what they dreamt of. When you're a kid, you hear a lot of people, I want to be a fireman or I want to be whatever, a doctor. For me, it was like, I want to play football. And then you get to do this crazy high-level thing that you always dreamt about that, like you said, not many people get to do. And I did it for a long time.

[00:00:18] But then I was 38 when it's over. And then it's like, do you do now? It's not about the last play. It's about the next play. That play's over. I can't ever change it. So I have to move on and move to the next play.

[00:00:46] Kate: Hey, there. Welcome back to Rawish. Another great episode today. I have a special guest who has done something that so few people have done. Not only did he make it to the NFL as a star quarterback, but he was in the league for 15 years, which makes him a unicorn. So that's one of the many reasons I wanted to have him on the show and just shed light on what that was, how we can all perform at a high level under pressure.

[00:01:13] I want to talk about brain health, which is very important to me, and some other really fun and fascinating things that he's working on to help empower other people and get everybody to really share their message, get raw, get real. So thank you so much to Gus Frerrotte, a 15-year NFL quarterback veteran for being here with us today.

[00:01:32] Gus: Yeah. Hi, Kate. How are you doing?

[00:01:34] Kate: I'm good. I'm so happy. When you got on, I don't know, you look like my cousin, or we both grew up fishing, and you're passionate about that, or you're in the Midwestern area. I grew up in Cincinnati and you're in Pittsburgh, but you just got on the call today and you feel like family because we have a mutual friend.

[00:01:51] Gus: Actually, you're from Cincinnati? Did you ever go to Zip's burgers?

[00:01:55] Kate: I can't believe you know about Zip's.

[00:01:57] Gus: Yeah, I lived in Mount Lookout when I played for the Bengals.

[00:02:01] Kate: I love that we're starting there. See, this is why I don't like to talk too much before I hit record because I know you had your sit with the Bengals, my beloved Bengals. And I love that you know about zips and lived in Mount Lookout, which was my hangout growing up. See?

[00:02:16] Gus: Yes, I love that part like that. I didn't do-- the whole football thing didn't work out for me there, but that part of it, my wife has some good friends still there. And there was just so many little great places around Mount Lookout, whether it's a little Irish pub or a great little deli, Zip's Burgers. And that's where I got to know about Graeter's too.

[00:02:39] Kate: Graeter's ice cream. Did you like Skyline Chili as well?

[00:02:42] Gus: I have to be honest, I am not a fan of Skyline Chili. So I didn't care for it that much. It wasn't how I like chili, but everybody loves it. It has their thing. But really, for us, our connection to Cincinnati was Graeter's because when we lived there, you couldn't get it anywhere else in the country. So it was our Christmas present to everyone. We'd send them a thing of Graeter's. And now Graeter's is nationwide. So that went out the window.

[00:03:12] Kate: Nationwide. So good old Cincinnati, we don't always get the best rep or rap. And it's the  Bengals, man, it's been the pure agony of being a  Bengals fan until very recently with Joe Burrow and company. But thank you, and I'm glad that you had a little bit of a good time while you were there. It is a great place to grow up. It's a charming place. And I think the only people who will stomach Skyline Chili are Cincinnati natives.

[00:03:39] Gus: Yeah. No, I've tried it. It's like, okay. Some people brag about this pizza place or that, and then everybody has their thing. It was good. We really enjoyed our time in Cincinnati.

[00:03:50] Kate: Okay, I'm so glad. And you made an appearance on several teams. When you look back on 15 years in the NFL, and especially as a quarterback in a key position, what memory or what headline, I guess, really stands out to you in terms of your experience?

[00:04:10] Gus: Just, I don't know, for me, it was about resiliency and never taking anything for granted, trying to be humble. I had a lot of stuff happen in my career, good and bad. And I could have really threw in the towel after a couple of situations, especially in Washington, why I left there. And I don't know if you looked that up, but everybody knows about what happened to me in Washington.

[00:04:31] And it's just something that I just loved the game, loved playing it, loved my family, so we moved everywhere together. And it was just an enjoyable experience. To do what I did was very lucky and was blessed. And that's why I got into podcasting when I left, because I left the game and there was this family that I had in the locker room, all these different teams. And then I wanted to leave because, it was time. I was old, and I wanted to be with my family.

[00:05:04] And then when I left that game, you're done. Unless you stay coaching, you're just out of it. And I coached high school football a little bit, but it wasn't the same. And then I missed that family. I missed that part of me, and that's why I started podcasting.

[00:05:21] Kate: I love that. Well, I have a question based on that, but are you talking about the head-butting incident?

[00:05:25] Gus: Yeah.

[00:05:27] Kate: Anything you want to say--

[00:05:28] Gus: I let everybody else bring it up. I know what happened, but everybody loves to talk about it. I don't know if you know who Zach Gelb is. He does drive time sports talk radio. And so I've known him. I've done his show a bunch of times, and yesterday I text him because I said you forgot about this team or whatever and then the first thing he mentions on the radio is this guy. And he mentions what happened, and I said, "Really? That's what you're going to talk about?" And sent a smiley face and he, "Sorry, bud." But whatever.

[00:05:59] It is what it is. Everybody deals with situations. And that's what it is. Everybody goes through hard times, and life isn't easy, and you have to battle through some certain times. For me, when I was done, I've had to go through mental health therapy a bunch, and there were just times that I struggled.

[00:06:18] And I think a lot of guys do. You don't know where you're going and where your place is in life. And there were certain times-- and my wife being a mental health therapist, she definitely said there's something going on. And so that led me to figure it out.

[00:06:33] Kate: I'm so glad that you have her. And as you talk about your head-butting incident that everyone loves to bring up, and I'd love to ask everybody why because there's so much more to you than that, but it reminds me of my dear friend, NFL-star Plaxico Burress, who luckily, you did not find yourself in prison for that incident. And something that's unfortunate and people talked a lot of crap when that happens.

[00:06:57] And the first thing I thought, and of course I defend him because he's so much more than that incident and so much more than a football player as well. But it's just like, have you not made a mistake? And in his case, he was terrified because two of his teammates had just got held up at gunpoint.

[00:07:10] So he had a gun on him. It was dumb, but we all make mistakes. And so I appreciate your humor or even being willing to bring it up because I think sometimes we can do one thing or one incident follows us around and then it does. It takes a toll on our mental health. And you think of all these things that we've done.

[00:07:29] I just watched this documentary on Hope Solo the star goalkeeper for US women's national team. It's like her "bad behavior" has followed her around where they try to even keep her out of the hall of fame. And I'm like, let's let some of these actions or opinions be independent of all the other glorious things that we've done.

[00:07:48] Gus: Yeah, you can't change the past. You can only deal with it and live with it. And I try to laugh about it. You know what I mean? And my wife's helped me through a lot of it, and I've had good family support through all of that. It is what it is. And people get upset about it and there are definitely issues that came from that.

[00:08:08] But you get past it and people forget, bring it back, and you're always going to relive certain things from your past. But it's like, oh, well, it is. And you deal with it and you move on. And you see that every day on the news, different people have different situations and problems.

[00:08:23] How do they handle it? How do they deal with it? Sometimes it's very hard. Sometimes it's a lot easier. And you try to help them any way you can. And the only way I can do really is, "Hey, here's what I went through and here's what helped me."

[00:08:38] Kate: Yeah. What were some of the symptoms that you were experiencing where your wife said, "Hey, there's something going on here," or you knew that you needed to seek some sort of professional help?

[00:08:49] Gus: Just different things that weren't like me, getting angry a lot, yelling, just being abnormal than who I really was for so many years. And then sought out help through the NFL. Would get help through them. Went through six or so months, seeing a psychiatrist and different things, and got on some medication that I'm still on, and it really helps me.

[00:09:12] Kate: Thank you for talking about that because I think there's been some shame or stigma around any of us seeking treatment or therapy. It's gotten better. Or being on medication or even talking about uncomfortable feelings or being out of character. Why is it so important for you to even admit that and to really do something about it?

[00:09:33] Gus: It's a masculine thing for most guys. I played in the NFL. I had to play through injury. This can't be happening. What's something that we can't see where usually everybody else around you sees it, notices it, and for you to let it really take that and accept it and get treatment on it is not easy for a lot of guys because they feel like it's, I'm tough. It's not a tough thing.

[00:09:56] It's just a thing that your brain is-- something's going on with it. What can I do to correct it? Emotion wise, feelings, all that stuff that comes up. Because when we're playing a game, it's just a physical, like, I got to learn this. I got to be physical. I got to be smart. And there's not a lot of really emotions.

[00:10:14] And when you show emotions, when I had to talk or something very important to me came up, I'm a crier. That always seemed weak, and so it's like, okay, I got to tamp that down. But in reality, it's just who I am.

[00:10:29] Kate: I'm a crier too. What sign are you?

[00:10:32] Gus: I'm a Leo.

[00:10:33] Kate: Oh, a Leo, a fiery Leo. Okay. I'm a crier too, but I like to say it's because we're in touch with our emotions. And that's a good thing. Do you feel that enough was done to protect you while you were playing? Because I had a friend of mine who was an NFL quarterback who spoke about getting hit really hard and coming out and essentially being forced or saying, "Okay, I'll stay in the game." And he was seeing stars and he said, "Kate, I don't even remember the entire second half." But was out there actively playing. How do you feel about that? And do you feel like you were either pushed or you took it upon yourself to play when you shouldn't have been playing?

[00:11:17] Gus: I feel like every-- if you ask them, would you do it all over again, 99.9% of the guys would say yes. And it just was always something for me that I knew there were certain risks and I'd been in that situation, but I think with the NFL, they knew they had to get people to play.

[00:11:42] That's what brought the people in the stands and their stars and you had to be tough and work through things. But I think they've come along with all this. We've seen them being sued by former players about brain health and different things, concussion injuries. And I think they've had to take it and understand the learning curve and they've been through it and now things are totally different.

[00:12:04] If you get knocked out at all, you're out of the game. If you have certain signs and symptoms, you're out of the game. If the camera guys, or they say New York sees it, they can pull you out of the game, the referee. So there are different things that they learn from, but if you go way back and you talk to the guys that played before me, they had certain things that they didn't have and then we had.

[00:12:23] And I can remember when I first came to the league, just for an example, we didn't have chiropractic work. The NFL was like, "No, you can't have that. You're not allowed to do that." And then all slowly changed because it was about how do we take care of our bodies and protect ourselves?

[00:12:40] And there's multiple-- guys believe in different things. And so I think the NFL has been good about saying, "Okay, we can accept all this. And we have to take responsibility for certain things. If that's our product and they get hurt, then we have to take care of them." So I think they've learned a lot and it's just changed drastically over the years.

[00:12:58] Kate: Do you like that? Do you think they're doing enough?

[00:13:02] Gus: I think everybody can always do more. It's a multi billion-dollar company. And when you see people that have played the game that are struggling and that they made tons of money off of these guys and they can't even walk or they have other issues, they have implemented different plans, yes, through our unions to be able to help certain guys.

[00:13:25] But for me, it's always like, okay, some guys barely made anything. You look at now quarterbacks are making 250 million and there's other guys on the team still making 500,000. It's a big disparity thing. And does everybody get treated the same way? No, but that's how it's always been.

[00:13:44] Kate: Yeah. You brought up something interesting. I like when people talk and I get little downloads, and you were talking about, I played 15 years, I'm old, and I want to be with my family. You aren't old. I think of when I was whatever that age would be, later 30s. She's like, "Gosh, my knees hurt when I go to Pilates." And you're still playing in the NFL, so I bow down to you guys. Well done. Bravo. Very impressive.

[00:14:07] But when you said that, I thought of another quarterback who-- and none of this is with any shame or judgment. Everyone has their own journey. But Tom Brady stepping away, retiring, but then going back and ultimately led to his divorce and just being like, "I've had enough." And then you really prioritizing family.

[00:14:27] Again, everyone has their own journey, but why was it so important to you? Because you could have, or even been a backup or something. Or why was it so important, though, for you to have that balance? And even when I asked you about what you want to talk about today, what's top of mind, family is top for you. Can you say more about that and those decisions that are really tough on a lot of players?

[00:14:48] Gus: Yeah. When I met my wife, I knew right away that was the one. We've been together through everything, and then having our children, I always wanted to be there for them. I'm not saying I was the best dad all the time or whatever, but I just knew that I always wanted to include them and be there with them because it's really easy when you leave one team and go to the next and your family's still back there to say, "Oh, I'm just going to commute."

[00:15:14] And then just things happen and it's not always-- I think guys get caught up in different things. And for me, it was always about wanting to be there for them. And I had two things in my life. I had football, that family, and I had my family. You know what I mean? And they were both very important to me.

[00:15:32] And it's like, how do I deal with both of them? Because I know a lot of guys who've gotten divorced because it was football and partying and doing things, and then they were done, they retired and had a family and they didn't know them at all. I never wanted to be like that.

[00:15:50] Kate: Yeah, I see that a lot, not just in football, but in a lot of industries and people just prioritizing work and money and material success over everything. And it's something that it saddens me deeply. And I've even been guilty at times of just sacrificing everything for my career. And I don't always think that's best.

[00:16:12] And especially when you have the spotlight and you're making so much money to even still prioritize your family. And I just even love that your wife is a therapist and does that sort of work? What has that been like, with your background, being married to someone who is all about the brain and can help you with your brain health?

[00:16:30] Gus: She's always been great with everyone. It's just something that we've gone together. I'm social, but she's social. She can get along with anybody. Steps in a room, doesn't matter, right, left, young, old. It doesn't matter. She gets along.

[00:16:47] And I think that she always wanted to help because her mom passed away of cancer and she was right there. She was originally a nurse for many years, and then she knew that wanted to lead. So when we moved back to Pittsburgh, after I retired, we moved back from St. Louis. She went back and got her master's, and she became an LCSW.

[00:17:09] And she put all that work in. For years, she was at home and raised our children. They wouldn't be who they are without her. And so she wanted to go back and do something and she's just been figuring it out for quite a few years. And now in the last year, she started her own practice and she has so many clients and she's just been doing an amazing job.

[00:17:29] And it's no different than anybody else when you try to figure new things out right out of college and it feels tough. And it's like, okay, when can I do this? But you learn that no matter what age you are or what part of life you're in, you can always take a new adventure, take new job, do something else. And if you put your mind to it and put hard work to it, yeah, you can be successful.

[00:17:52] Kate: Yeah. What has been the secret to success for your marriage? That's the million-dollar question. There's so many divorces, and then there's another large percentage you wish they were divorced but can't for whatever reason, financial or kids or otherwise. And I can hear it and feel it from you and I can't wait to have Ann on the show as well. But what is that secret where it's still genuine after all these changes and all the moves and all the successes and all the incidences and it's just still working?

[00:18:19] Gus: I'll tell you, it's not easy. And we've gone through couples therapy. We've done a lot because I wasn't communicating. And then my wife's very quick, very animated, and she can come back real fast. And so when I was younger, it felt like, okay, I would say my piece, but we had to learn to communicate with each other. And therapy helped that.

[00:18:40] You have to step back from your ego and understand what they're going through and vice versa. And so we've just done that over the years and we try to do a lot together, whether it's going hiking or just going for walks, doing different things. One of the things we've always done is try to eat dinner as a family.

[00:18:59] You hear that a lot. So many people eat out or doing different things, but we always really tried, no matter what it was, to be together and just sit at the table with our kids. Sometimes they didn't want to have conversations and that was okay. And even though I was being nosy, I would try to ask some things and you just learn what the benefits are of, I think, really just listening.

[00:19:24] Kate: Yeah.

[00:19:24] Gus: And then trying to understand what they're saying. And it just, it's not an overnight thing. It just takes time. It's a want to. That's a big thing in the NFL, is to want to. And you have to want to be with somebody and listen and learn and grow.

[00:19:42] Kate: Thank you for that because we both talked about communication. A topic that's important to both of us right now is communication. And I'm blown away by how few grown adults really excel in proper, empowered, kind communication and being able to connect in a meaningful way.

[00:20:01] You brought up earlier right versus left and everything that's going on politically in an election year and I've noticed myself, I can tell, I've done a lot of healing and I've done a lot of inner growth because in the past where I would be extremely triggered by something somebody said politically, I find now that it doesn't bother me as much and I'm way more accepting of other people's opinions.

[00:20:25] And right now let's say you loved a political candidate that I'm not a fan of. I would be so okay with it. I would not judge you. And in fact, I would like it because it would help me not dislike the candidates so much. And I'm very neutral with all the candidates right now, which has been a gift in itself.

[00:20:44] That's been a lot of work where I just am neutral now and that we can talk about it and even say, share with me why you like so and so so much, and be able to have a kind conversation about it rather than, I'm never talking to you again. All that stuff that you see, it's so violent. What do you think the, I guess, answer or antidote is to some of this violent communication that's so prevalent in our culture right now?

[00:21:11] Gus: I hate the fact that it's always, they're terrible, they're horrible, they're wrong, they don't know what they're doing. And then when they ask you about yourself, you just deflect. Instead of that person being empathetic. Empathy is such a big thing because so many people you have no idea what they're going through or what problems they're having in life, and you have to have empathy.

[00:21:35] And when the most powerful person in the world doesn't have any empathy and everything is divisive and throwing just whatever just to feed a section of the country that just feeds off of that, I don't know. That doesn't make anybody better.

[00:21:54] I'll give you an example. I played for head coaches where we had incredible teams, incredible athletes on this team. It could have gone as far as the Superbowl. Really, we've seen that. And then the head coach would just be divisive, because he'd be very even keel and he'd be up. He'd be down. He'd yell at everybody, fire people, yell at players, and it just never worked. Guys couldn't follow that. Some guys didn't care because they're whatever. But you lose a lot of people in all that stuff.

[00:22:27] And I think as leadership goes, when you see that's really why they're running or being in politics, is they're leaders. But what is a leader? I think a leader is somebody who-- I always said, there's 11 people in the huddle. I have to understand and learn about 10 other people, all their backgrounds, where they're from, be empathetic to them.

[00:22:48] Some may need a pat on the butt. Some may need yelled at sometimes. Some just don't have to say anything to. And some just want to scream at me. And you have to be able to understand that, take that, and not be angry. And that's no different than being in a family, in a locker room, or in a country.

[00:23:08] Kate: Yeah. What is something that one of your head coaches said or did that still stands out to you as true, authentic, genuine leadership that was effective and motivating you to do something?

[00:23:22] Gus: I don't know if it always has to be said, but it can just be shown. I'll give you an example. When I was in Washington, I was in a competition. I've become the starter. I'm in the huddle. The coach is like, "Okay, this is your huddle now. You take control." And so I'm in the huddle. Guys are talking. I kick a guy out of the huddle and the coach goes, "Oh no, he needs to stay in because I need him for this play."

[00:23:46] And so it takes you from being the leader and then just cutting me right out. So it's not always what they do. It's the actions they show. And some coaches are like, yeah, don't worry about it. Let's get them the next time. And understanding that I'm going to teach and correct and film when we get off the field, because right now, if he yells at somebody during a game, and I've been guilty of this as a coach, if you yell at somebody during a game and you put them out of their game mindset, then they're not going to perform well. And then it just keeps going downhill.

[00:24:20] But you, as a coach and as a leader, you have to learn, and I'm guilty as anyone of this, that I have to be very even keel. I have to say, "Okay. Do you understand what happened?" "Yes." "All right. You don't? Okay, let's learn about it. Let's move on to the next play." And Darrell Green, I used to talk to him. He was a Hall of Famer quarterback and he got beat by Mike [Inaudible] on a past play and he came back and he's talking and he's into it.

[00:24:46] And I'm like, "Darrell, how do you do that? How do you get a touchdown thrown on you then you come back and your mindset's completely different?" And he said, "Look, it's not about the last play. It's about the next play." That play's over. I can't ever change it. So I have to move on and move to the next play. And if I'm out there on the next play thinking about the last play, I'm not going to be very good.

[00:25:09] So that always told me you have to let things go. And it's hard to do. And I think you have to be coached and trained for, and I don't always think that coaches understand that. They always want the player to understand that, but then the coaches, it's where it all comes from and starts with.

[00:25:28] Kate: I love that because I'm thinking, wow, you guys have such a strong skill set of letting shit go quickly because you have to. Your life is even on the line. You could injure yourself. If you're still thinking about that last play and you're out there bewildered, that's actually scary to even think about.

[00:25:45] So what is skill sets! I'm going to start reminding guys, or even in your Alumni Media Network that I want to talk about in a bit, that's such a great reminder for all of you. Wow. You've got to be present. You got to let it go and move on quickly, in seconds.

[00:26:00] Gus: Yeah, and that's not something that's just given, that you instinctively know. That it's instinctively, okay, I was bad, I was bad, I was bad. How do I let all that go? And just, okay, I'm going to dominate this next play, but I can't dominate, if I'm thinking about the last play. That's our culture.

[00:26:20] How many picks did the guy throw? What did he do wrong? I can't believe he had that penalty. You know what I mean? And so it's just something that you have to be able to get over because the media is so out there and it's all over social media and everything now. And for me, it's like when you're on the front page of the Washington Post and just every reporter is ripping on you for the mistakes you made when you're 23, it's just like, okay, how do I deal with this?

[00:26:46] Kate: Yeah. I keep hearing it throughout this conversation that you have a high EQ, emotional intelligence. And we brought up the head-butting incident, but even the growth from that where it's a moment of losing your cool for a second and now I can hear and feel the wisdom in you and that you're in touch with your emotions, which is so refreshing for me to experience, so thank you.

[00:27:06] But I just think the NFL, really all of the leagues, could benefit from more EQ training, which I'm passionate about because you see so many people lose their cool even off the field in that moment and just so many things going on socially, racially, politically, the importance of us. I feel like maybe that's another job for you guys, just some other training you can do in your network.

[00:27:28] Gus: I get it, but it's a tough thing to deal with. And a lot of guys have never had to deal with their emotions. Their emotions were dealt with on a football field and not at home or not in classroom. And they just don't understand it. They just don't get it. And how do you train somebody to do that? I think that's what the NFL's been trying to figure out and coaches have been trying to figure out for a long time.

[00:27:52] Kate: Yeah. Million-dollar business. Let's create it. There we go. What is something that you have said or done that you saw had a really big impact on your teammates?

[00:28:06] Gus: I don't know. For me, I always tried to have fun in the locker room. Because we're not in meetings. We're not on the field. And I was always a jokester, prankster. I never thought like, okay, I got to be serious 24/7. Like I always felt like, okay, this is our locker rooms, our family. And I like to pull jokes on people and do different things. And for me, it was always a way to get somebody to talk or get to know them. I interviewed Ricky Williams and we played together in Miami and I used to pick on some of the linemen. And Ricky goes, "Why didn't you ever do that to me?" And I said, "You were always quiet and by yourself and I didn't want to [Inaudible]." He goes, "Oh my God, I wish you would have." Because that would have been his thing to get involved in everything. You know what I mean?

[00:28:55] Like, oh, man, I never thought of that. And it's not malicious, like he tried to be malicious. It's just sometimes people take it the wrong way when you have fun. But I never meant it that way. It was just joking around basically. But it's something that I always felt safe because I was in the locker room and guys laughed and we brought everybody together.

[00:29:16] Kate: I love that. So did you ever pick on Ricky or talk a little smack to him after that?

[00:29:21] Gus: No. And I always felt like there were certain guys you could do it to that can handle it and certain guys you don't want to do it to because they don't take it the right way.

[00:29:32] Kate: Yeah. You're good at reading the room. Again, the emotional intelligence. You got it. I'm here for it. So talk to us a little bit about this. I want to make sure I say right, the Alumni Media Network and why you created it and why you're loving it.

[00:29:45] Gus: Yeah. So if anybody can go to alumnimedia.com to check it out. And we've had several different shows and channels over the years. And what we're really trying to do, we started this after the pandemic and we wanted to work with people that had no idea how to create content or podcast or video podcast and do all those kinds of things.

[00:30:08] But we knew just like myself, most people who've played a sport have incredible stories, whether it's locker room or family or whatever, just like today, and didn't know how to tell them. Or start a show, or I have always wanted to do that. How do I do that? So we started this to really just support alumni in their efforts to share their content, tell their stories.

[00:30:34] And it's been also, I've never built a network before, so how do I do that? And there's been learning curves and then everything else that comes with it, sponsorship, advertising. And I want to get all of our people that are part of this money and paid because they deserve that.

[00:30:51] But it's like, okay, you're just in this flux of like, okay, we're starting and we're building, and then we got to go back and down. It's no different than any other part of life and growing a small business. But for me, I enjoy it. It may not be successful. It may be super successful in the coming years, but for me, it connects me to a bunch of people that did what I did. And we can have safe, incredible conversations because it's just different when you talk to somebody who's been through what you've been through.

[00:31:24] Kate: Absolutely. And I think there's so much power and sharing our stories and telling the truth and being able to joke in the locker room or talking smack to each other and having a good laugh or remember that thing on and off the field, but also just, "Hey, man. I'm struggling."

[00:31:39] And I see a lot of professional athletes struggle in that transition where you're out there in public. Everybody loves you. You're making all the money. Everything's great. And you're young. You got your health. And then a lot of people, if you don't go into broadcasting or you don't have some other huge passion or you didn't study something in particular in college that you want to go into after that, a lot of folks can feel a bit lost. How were you able to manage that time and then help others navigate uncertain waters?

[00:32:08] Gus: Or you've lost all your money. There's a lot of things that can hamper guys. So for me, I had no clue what I wanted to do. I knew I like football, so I coached for a little while. My kids went to school in St. Louis called John Burroughs. I was head coach there for a while. And then we moved back to Pittsburgh and assisted out of school, but just fell out of love with the coaching side of it.

[00:32:29] And I tried for a few years to get back into the NFL to be a coach and it just didn't work out for me. And then, okay, I need to figure something out. So I met another gentleman and you were talking about brain health. They created an application called the Roberto app, named after Roberto Clemente, partnered with their family.

[00:32:48] The app is just a basic way to measure and monitor your brain performance by simple games that have been out there for years. And now they've partnered with other companies. It's just an application inside a bunch of other ones. Let's say you own a company. You have 100 people that work for you.

[00:33:08] You can't go through and ask everyone every day how they're doing and how they're feeling. So the Roberto app has been put into these things where you can come into work. Are you feeling okay today? Yes. Feel fine. Okay, done. Oh, no, I'm not feeling great. Okay. What's wrong? I just feel foggy. Not clear.

[00:33:24] You can play the Roberto app so your brain performance-- it's baseline basically for you. So when I was with them, they were starting out. And I was trying to figure out what verticals I went. I didn't know how to make a spreadsheet. I didn't know how to create a deck. I didn't know any of that. So all that business side of it, I had to learn.

[00:33:40] And that's what I figured out afterwards while I was with them, to learn a lot of the business side and figure out what-- I didn't even know what it meant to be in a certain vertical. So we were taking it, trying to-- is it a sports vertical? Is it a work vertical-- all these things. But I've left them and I stayed very close with all of them.

[00:34:00] And then just trying to figure out after that, the transition. What do I do? What I want to do? Then, like I said, I figured out that, okay, there's something missing. I didn't know what it was for a long time. And it was that football family. Not necessarily coaching football, but those people I spent 25 years with through all different teams and everything.

[00:34:22] So that's when I started podcasting and getting interviews. And I didn't interview everybody. I'd interview an author or different things, just like you do. Didn't know why I was doing all this, but it's also led me to being Alumni Media Network, and still working with the guys and girls and trying to figure out--there's so much content out there. What is it? What do people want to see? And then people that are alumni of every sport, what do they want to do? Trying to put all that together.

[00:34:56] So it's been fun and exciting. And it's just been a lot of fun in trying to figure it out, and nerve wracking at times. And we've done internship programs for people, so they'd come in from college. Hey, do you want to put this on your resume? And then we've hired young people to edit.

[00:35:13] I don't know if you've ever done editing. If you have an hour long show and you want to edit commercials into it and put intros and outros and logos, I tried it one time and said, "That's not for me. That's not my forte." [Inaudible] somebody else to do those things. You learn where you're good and where you're bad and just keep moving on.

[00:35:35] Kate: Yeah, absolutely. It's very quarterback of you to huddle everybody together and really lead and guide them and inspire them and maybe give them a few plays for inspiration and things like that. So I think it's so helpful that we stick together. And again, I was telling you, top of mind for me, what's on my heart right now is all of us being able to connect because the world has seemed to have lost its mind.

[00:35:57] So we really need to lean on each other. And I think too that notion of, oh yeah, so and so, I'm sure they're fine or they look great on social media, but reaching out to them because maybe they're not doing fine. And maybe you reaching out to them turns things around for them. And I love that you're having these conversations.

[00:36:14] And you're right. We all have that wisdom in us and we all have something to share. And we think maybe like, well, I'm not a celebrity or I'm not this. So who cares? But I think of my favorite Oprah show episodes and it was always some woman from Nebraska with this extraordinary story that stuck with me way more than what Tom Cruise was doing.

[00:36:32] And I love Tom Cruise, but I hope anyone who's listening to this just knows that you never know, even if it's changing one life based on something that you've shared from your life to help someone.

[00:36:46] Gus: Yeah, it's been an incredible journey, and I've enjoyed every minute of it. And you just don't know. Sometimes it's really scary. Like, okay, I'm not making any money at this, but I know I want to do this, or I can build this, and I can help people. You might fail. You might not be successful at it, but then you figure out something else.

[00:37:07] I do other things too. Like I was telling you earlier, I have a good friend of mine. He has a business. He remodels homes and kitchens, bathrooms. And then when he needs extra help, I go help him. I get to work with my hands and it's not like anything else I do.

[00:37:22] And then it also gets me away from monotony of certain things if I'm just home all the time. So I really enjoy that. And then like I was telling you, I think there's just other things. I'll golf with my sons. I'll collect cards with them, which I did that with my dad, and they really never wanted to do it until the pandemic hit when [Inaudible].

[00:37:46] And then I got all my cards out, all these collection, and then we went through it together and they love it now. So I just enjoy doing that with them. And then my wife and I hike. My daughter, she's a veterinarian, and so animals have always been close, big, passionate for us. So it's just so many great things in life. And the thing about it is the rhetoric is just-- that's what gets me down. It should always be picking people up and never just cutting them off at the knees.

[00:38:14] Kate: Yeah. And your kids love the cards, not because of the cards, but because of you. And that's their time to connect with dad in a authentic way, and hiking with your wife. Both of those things are free or virtually free and just having that time to truly connect. Everyone's on their devices so much and watching all the things, and when we just do something beautiful--

[00:38:32] Gus: Yeah. That's what I'm saying. These are never going away. We're never going back. Technology, information, it's only going to get more and more. We're never going back to a TV that I had to walk up and only had three channels on, or a phone that I had to dial to call somebody.

[00:38:50] It's never going back. We're never going back there. So when people want to relive that time, that's okay. Enjoy what you did. When we were kids, your parents would go, "I walk both ways to school." Okay. You know what I mean? Things change. And it doesn't make it bad or good.

[00:39:09] You just accept it and move on. I always tell my mom, this is how technology is. You have to get used to it. You have to learn how to use a different controller. You have to learn how to use an Android phone, if that's what you like, and learn how to-- "I don't know what that means." I'm like, "That's what's great about it. You can Google it and ask."

[00:39:27] Kate: Or I'm sure you'll connect with her and help her. I can do a little activity for you guys. I know the parents ask the funniest questions about technology. And now I feel like we all defer to the 10-year-old in the family who knows more about the phone than any of us.

[00:39:41] Gus: They know how to do anything, believe me.

[00:39:44] Kate: My nephew would send showing me how to do Apple pay, and I did. I was like, "Okay." I felt very old."

[00:39:53] Gus: I was talking with a friend one time. He was still playing, and he was driving from Miami back to Tampa, where his family was, and my wife and I were talking to him, and we're like, "Wait, you're driving, but you're talking--" "He goes, "Yeah, I have a Tesla." It's self-driving. and I'm like, "What?" You know what I mean? This was several years ago, and it was hard to fathom that.

[00:40:16] Kate: Yeah. Listen, we've seen a lot, and I'm grateful. I'm grateful for our generation. I think we're a little bit tougher. Again, I don't want to age myself, but I graduated from college without a cell phone. I got it right after I graduated, but I love that. It's just like, I hope I run into so and so on campus. Or Friday night, everyone meets at this place. Or you leave a message on the answering machine. And I just love those days. I have my 90s on nine and 80s eight.

[00:40:42] Gus: I think there's that aspect of life that you can still go by-- fly fishing for me is like that. It's never going to change it, but it's an old tradition and a sport, and it's hard. And I think that's why people connect with it, because you're out in nature and it's going back. It's something I can't get through a phone. There's certain things that you can't do through that. But then there are other things like, God, imagine if I had this when I was a kid.

[00:41:10] Kate: Yeah.

[00:41:11] Gus: And so there's give and take. And I don't think you can get angry at it, which people want to do. You have to learn and move on.

[00:41:22] Kate: It does remind me though because I saw your picture with the fish and you fishing and that brought me back to my childhood fishing on Lake Michigan with my family and being three years old and holding all these walleye by their gills in my hands. That was so cool for me. And so then I'm like, "Okay, I don't have access to that today and I miss my family." But then it's, what can I do to nurture that little girl inside of me.

[00:41:43] And I think spending more time doing that and acknowledging him or her and taking yourself on the walk or doing something more playful and childlike instead of so much adulting, Gus. It's exhausting. We all need to be a little more playful and do more fly fishing and do the baseball cards.

[00:42:00] Gus: The older you get, the more responsibilities are thrown on your plate. My wife and I just became empty nesters. Our last son just moved out and moved in with his girlfriend, and now he's got to figure out all these new responsibilities that mom and dad have been taking care of for years.

[00:42:15] No fault. I'm not mad at them or anything, but he's got a learning curve. And the more you do and the more you have, the more responsibilities that are thrown at you, and you have to be able to understand how to figure those out. And I think when I was talking earlier about my mental health, I wasn't handling those responsibilities well. Things were making me angry. It wasn't necessarily my family, but just different things, and you have to learn how to get it out and express it. And that helps in so many ways.

[00:42:45] Kate: Hmm, I love that. When you look back on all of these experiences and this really incredible life that you've had and being able to do something that 0.00001% of the population gets to do, especially for as long as you did it, what have you really learned about yourself that makes you proud?

[00:43:03] Gus: Well, you I was really lucky. Not many people dream of something and get to do what they dreamt of. When you're a kid, you hear a lot of people, I want to be a fireman or whatever, a doctor. For me, it was like, I want to play football. I want to be a professional athlete.

[00:43:18] And then it became football because I went to college and played. And then you get to do this crazy high-level thing that you always dreamt about that, like you said, not many people get to do. And I did it for a long time. But then I was very young, kind of, 38, when it's over. And then it's like, do you do now?

[00:43:37] Where do I get that excitement, that joy? And I still had my family. There's a lot of excitement and joy and all that-- see my kids go to high school, college, everything they were doing, being able to see my wife go through everything she went through and doing what she's doing now.

[00:43:51] And then personally, you have to be able to find that joy in your life again when you got out and played in front of 80,000 people and what that excitement was. And I think that's why if guys can hang on, they hang on as long as possible. Because I remember calling people that I played before me and said, "How did you know when it was time?"

[00:44:12] And they're like, "You'll just know." And you do. You just understand when it's time. Something comes your way, or the universe throws something at you that says-- for me, it was a doctor failing my physical. And it's like, I'm done. But I got it. I understood it. And then I think just so many things that come at you and you go through a lot of emotional aspects of your life and you have to be able to deal with them. And luckily for me, I just have an amazing wife and super support system that gets me through so much.

[00:44:44] Kate: It's so, again, refreshing for me to hear someone talk about their spouse this way, and you're not a newlywed, so thank you for that.

[00:44:52] Gus: Well, coming up on 30 years.

[00:44:54] Kate: Yeah, that's really impressive. And that is true success for both of you. Thank you so much. Any final thought that you'd like to leave with our listeners? Something that's coming to mind to me I'd love for you to speak to while you give that is just I think a lot of people are struggling whether it is with mental health or finances or feeling good enough or not feeling fulfilled. Any insight you can share?

[00:45:17] Gus: I think people get stuck on their phone. Even though they're watching a lot or they're seeing a lot-- I'm good deal of it. I watch TikTok and different things, but you can get trapped in that. You feel like you're talking to people, but you're not. You're lonely. I think you just have to get out.

[00:45:36] That's why I like going with my friend and going to the workplace with him and being able to just BS with him and talk with him. And then when my wife and I hiked, we talk more when we hiked than any other time. And it's just getting out. I think that it's finding someone or somehow to have discussions, communication and connect so that eventually, what's really deep down bothering you or an issue you have, you can talk to somebody about it. And when you do get it out, instead of always reliving it in your head, I think it just lets you find an answer.

[00:46:13] Kate: Hmm. That was so beautiful. I'm letting that sit for a second. Thank you. Gus Frerotte, you are such a delightful human. I just want to keep talking to you, but I'm mindful of everybody's schedules and wifey time and babysitting the puppy and dinnertime and everything else you have going on. But thank you so much. This was such a fun conversation.

[00:46:32] Gus: Yeah. Thank you for having me on, Kate. I really appreciate it. I had a lot of fun.

[00:46:36] Kate: Yeah, it was really great. We'll have to do it again. And thank you so much for being here today. We'll see you next time right here on Rawish. Have a great night. Bye, everybody.