The Unbelievable Comeback Story of MLB’s Brandon Puffer

[00:00:01] Brandon: If anyone came up to me a day before that and said, "You know what, Puff? I got a deal for you. You're going to go out and drink with your buddies, and you're going to lose your career, your reputation, your family, your freedom, all your finance. You're going to lose it all. Would you take that deal?" Nobody would take that deal

[00:00:18] I was driving to the ballpark the day I got in trouble. I made a decision in my mind I was going to do it. I was going to go out. And immediately I felt, don't do it. This is a bad idea. One bad night, one choice could really ruin your life. And I sure approved it.

[00:00:34] Kate: Do you feel in some ways having to be held accountable and go to prison saved your life?

[00:00:42] Brandon: 100%. There's no doubt about it.

[00:00:47] Kate: Hi, there. Welcome back to Rawish with Kate Eckman. Another great episode for you here today. We're going to talk a lot about our decisions and choices. And even if we've made what we perceive to be a catastrophic mistake, how we can bounce back from that. And someone to talk to us about that and who knows more about this than most people is former major league baseball player and pitcher Brandon Puffer.

[00:01:11] He also won a World Series ring with the Boston Red Sox, a legend in his own right there. And he's also written an incredible book that's really spoken to me and touched my heart, and it's called From the Bullpen to the State Pen. So yeah, we're going to hear about how he goes from superstar athlete to spending time in prison and what happened and how he has tremendously bounced back from that, which has just given me so much hope. And I know he'll give you a lot of inspiration today. So Brandon, thank you so much for being here today.

[00:01:44] Brandon: Hi, Kate. Yeah, it's my pleasure. Thank you for that awesome intro. I'm looking forward to it.

[00:01:48] Kate: Yeah. I already am a big fan of yours because life is challenging and to be in a position where there's so much pressure and expectation, you get fame and notoriety, and you get money and all of those things too, and the fans. But there's some demons. And I feel like when you are placed in a position of power like that, the demons can come up with an even greater vengeance.

[00:02:10] And all it takes is one decision. And I just had the anniversary. I lost a loved one to suicide, and it's just one decision in one moment can end a life that was so beautiful. And we're happy that you're still here, but I think it's so important that we talk about this topic because it does bring up so much shame and fear and regret and all the other emotions that people try to shy away from.

[00:02:36] We'll dive right in and, of course, get to your book, but what was going on in your life? You had this success and this going on, and then you found yourself in an unfortunate situation, we'll say, but also that you're owning it and taking responsibility for your role in the action.

[00:02:53] Brandon: Yes, absolutely, Kate. Just kind of a little pre story, I think a lot of young men, young women, I was just really enamored at maybe being a professional athlete one day. So I truly thought in my heart of hearts that if I ended up accomplishing that dream, maybe just getting one day in the big leagues, my life would be complete.

[00:03:12] And what I found out is I just have this big hole inside of me that I think all of us have, and I was just trying to stuff it full of things that weren't going to show me any permanent joy or peace. Some happiness temporarily drugs, alcohol, performance, being a good athlete, being a man, whatever that means. I didn't even know.

[00:03:32] And so fast forwarding, and we go back and forth as much as you want, I accomplished that dream through a lot of hard work and perseverance and all those good things. Those lessons were awesome to learn off the field, what it took to really persevere to make it.

[00:03:47] But unfortunately, throughout my life, I also had the battle, and you use the word demons. That's exactly what I say. I had these demons that were addiction and all these things that ran through my family, anxiety and some of the stuff that we didn't really have labels for back then. But I felt it.

[00:04:00] I really, really felt it. And so what I normally did is I would numb myself and get really up for a game and then have to come down, so I'd go out or drink or whatever the case may be. And all those choices to your point earlier, you bring all these things with you wherever you are until you deal with them.

[00:04:16] So now I'm bringing them to, I just have a little more money, a little more freedom, a little more opportunity at my expense, and unfortunately I didn't manage it well. I had a few years in my career where I did. I was sober. I was working really hard. My mindset was good. And those were the years where I flourished.

[00:04:32] However, once I hit a rocky period of time in my life, which was a separation from my first wife, those demons started kind of chipping away at me again, like, hey, you've been five years sober, but you're more mature now. You can handle this a little better. So unfortunately, I let that foothold get in there again.

[00:04:50] I dove back into that lifestyle. And from that point forward, it was a very slippery slope leading to the night that we'll discuss on one bad choice, one bad decision. And I've said it many times, like, just one bad night, one choice could really ruin your life. And I sure proved it. Fortunately, there's redemption involved, but it took a long time. It was very difficult to walk through. So excited to talk more about that.

[00:05:14] Kate: Yeah. And thank you for even talking about that voice because we all have it. And sometime it's the voice of, you can't eat that thing or drink that thing. It makes you sick. Or, you know you can't have that 10th cocktail. Your rage comes out and you feel out of control and you don't know what you'll do.

[00:05:30] Or, you can't drive right now. You've had three drinks, or whatever. I keep bringing up alcohol-related things. Or, you know you can't say that to that person. It'll ruin the relationship forever. And so sometimes we hear it and we ignore it, or we hear a voice that says, "You're on a bigger path now, and follow that."

[00:05:48] And you're like, "Screw that. I'm tired." Or, "Daddy didn't love me enough." Or, "This woman broke my heart. Screw it." And we go against that. So can you talk a little bit about that voice? I think because the World Series is on right now, but it's that feeling I think of baseball players more than anyone or maybe the NBA player at the free throw line.

[00:06:09] But I don't even know how you guys ever make a hit. Or the pitcher mound. My arm hurts just looking at you all. But there's so much noise and pressure you have to block out. And I can't even imagine all the voices in your head while you're trying to make a hit or trying to throw that strike.

[00:06:24] Brandon: Yeah. No, that's amazing. It interesting, Kate, because if you ask most athletes that got to that level, whether it being shooting free throws in the big game or being on the mound in the big moment, in my case, most of the time, I think what they're going to tell you is, I couldn't hear anything. I didn't even know what was going on. I was so locked in.

[00:06:43] And a lot of that is intentional. The brain is certainly a muscle and your thoughts are not going to stop coming, but you've got to inject positive thoughts. For me, I had a mantra when I was on the mound. It was one pitch at a time, pound the zone. I said it over and over and over.

[00:06:57] And so when negative thoughts started popping, and they did, I have funny stories about being a new big leaguer and facing some guys that I idolized and going like, "Oh, that's him." And then I'm like, "Wait a minute. You've got to get them out. You've got to compete against him right now. Get your stuff together."

[00:07:12] And then ironically, the same could apply to your discipline off the field or the court, the alcoholism, the sexual addictions, all the things that come at people, but I was more successful doing it in between the lines. And I think part of it is too, at that level, you're trained to just feel like you're unbeatable, you're 10 feet tall and bulletproof.

[00:07:34] And then you step off the court or the field and that doesn't play. That doesn't play in real life. You've got to be more intentional about your thoughts and your feelings and what you say and your actions. And I think that's where a lot of them-- I hate to pigeonhole athletes. It's certainly not just athletes, but where they get in trouble because that mindset that you have to have to compete at that level doesn't really carry over off the field in court.

[00:07:55] And some guys manage it really well. I wasn't great at it, and so I didn't really fear the consequences as much as I should have. There's a little slap on the wrist here and there, Kate, in my life, where I'd be like, "Okay, this didn't have to be one bad choice led to this prison sentence."

[00:08:09] There was some red flags coming up before that. It wasn't like my first drink and here I land myself in prison. Certainly I didn't see that coming. I didn't think that was the outcome. But it was just little things, compromises along the way, not paying attention to that voice. And actually, I have a story I usually share. When I was driving to the ballpark, the day I went out, the day I compromised, the day I got in trouble, I made a decision in my mind I was going to do it. I was going to go out.

[00:08:35] The guys had been all over me all year, come out with us. Let's party. And I said, "No, no, no, no, no. I've had issues. I can't do it. No, no, no." And it was just that one day I was driving in, it was a Friday, and I just said, "You know what, what's one night? I'm going to go." And immediately I felt, don't do it. This is a bad idea.

[00:08:54] Kate: You heard that voice.

[00:08:55] Brandon: What you said. And I put it aside, and it even had a little bit more expansion on that. It was, matter of fact, when you show up to the ballpark today, you should let them know you're having big time issues and you're going down a dark path. And my thought process, Kate, and this is what I try to say, is, I'm a leader of this team. I'm one of the older veteran guys. I'm not going to be a distraction. There's two more games. We're in a championship series I'm just going to go have my fun tonight, finish out the weekend, and life will move on as normal.

[00:09:21] Because to that point, I played 15 seasons. This was a normal day. My routine was normal. And just wasn't normal this time. This was the night where I'd wake up the following day in jail surrounded by orange jumpsuits. I was in one as well. And the day I woke up and said, "What in the world?" This is where it all came to with the choices and the consequences and the ignoring the voice that we just spoke about.

[00:09:44] And again, not a bad guy, not always doing bad things. More of an encourager, a chapel leader on my baseball team, not the guy that you'd be like, "Oh, he's headed down. He's going." But still, it doesn't matter who-- those demons, they don't respect anybody. If they can pull you down, they're going to do it. And so I certainly fell victim to that. But to your point about the small voice, I remember it vividly driving to the park that day. Don't do it. Don't do it. And I didn't listen.

[00:10:11] Kate: And the importance of listening to that voice. And it is our higher self, if you believe in a higher power. It could be God, spirit, universe. If you believe in that, it's the part of us-- it's even our child, like, mommy, daddy, please, this is not good for us. It doesn't make me feel good.

[00:10:26] And we block it out. And so when you hear that voice, because we hear it all the time, to start listening to that truth rather than the ego says, "You're worthless. Who cares? Go get wasted. It doesn't matter." Or, "Who are you to think that you're going to make this team and win a game? You're worthless. Go have the drink."

[00:10:44] Or just like, "Screw it. I know I shouldn't do this, but I'm in pain." Or just I want to be perceived as cool. We care about how people perceive us. So whatever it is, it is that reminder to stop and pause and think who you really want to be, what really matters. Being true and knowing what our values are and letting those lead the way rather than the ego or all these other temptations.

[00:11:06] Brandon: Oh, those are great points because, really, Kate, if anyone came up to me a day before that and said, "You know what, Puff? I got a deal for you. You're going to go out and drink with your buddies, and you're going to lose your career, your reputation, your family, your freedom, all your finance. You're going to lose it all. Would you take that deal?" Nobody would take that deal.

[00:11:24] That's not how it works. It's slow fade. We'll be patient with you. Just go do this. You can do that. You're okay. You got to go. And you can handle this. And then the rug gets ripped out from under you. And before you know it, you're going, "Wait a minute."

[00:11:38] Now, looking back, you can go, okay, there was some stuff in line here where I should have seen this, but in the moment, no one would take that deal, lose everything for a night out drinking with buddies. But that's what happened to me. And that's how the demons work. It's very conniving, very patient with you.

[00:11:53] So over a period of time was all leading up to that night for me. And at any point I could have said, "You know what? This is not for me." And I did sometimes, but even further of like, I cannot do this. And here's why. And I think what we also run into, Kate, and I don't know if you've run into this, is I felt like it was selfish to admit that I had all these issues because I was being looked up to as a leader.

[00:12:14] And I would just be like, "Well, I've got to act like I have it together so they can look up to me." When what they really needed was just a little more transparency, vulnerability, going, "Hey, I screwed up too. In my mind, I'm messing up every day, all day, and I'm just fighting it every day, and I don't have it going on."

[00:12:29] So I always encourage people to go, look, don't feel like you're the only one that thinks and feels this way because we all do. It's just, who's going to stand up and go, me? And unfortunately for me, it started with a very public, very embarrassing, shameful story that began with me getting arrested, getting a prison sentence.

[00:12:47] But what that allowed me to do is go in for three and a half plus years and really peel back the layers of, okay, who is this perceived big, tough athlete, whatever you want to say? Who are you really deep down? It's just a young man who was hurt, who was had issues from childhood that were never dealt with.

[00:13:07] And at the end of the day, probably not super confident as maybe we put off to be. A little more insecure than we put off. But we have to trick our mind to get that hitter out. So off the field, let's trick our mind to believe we have everything going on. Well, let's just trick our mind to say, we're good. Everything's good. But in reality, it wasn't good. It was falling apart inside.

[00:13:27] Kate: Wow. Thank you so much for your self-awareness and the work that you've clearly done on yourself. It's inspiring. It's showing. And it's like a master class in the power of our truth, our vulnerability to stop pretending we have it all together and that our humanity is what inspires and what connects and can keep us out of trouble and keep us on the right path.

[00:13:47] So you're here now, but back then that night, it's Friday night. You're ignoring that voice, and I have compassion and empathy for you Ignoring that voice because it sounds like many of us have unresolved childhood trauma, things that have deeply impacted us that we haven't even come to terms with because it's, how could this person hurt me, or why did this happen?

[00:14:10] And then even showing that things that work in our profession, performing at a high level, do not work in the role of human. So take us through that moment. It's Friday night, you're out with the friends, you ignored the voice, and then you ended up in a dangerous situation that led you to prison for years.

[00:14:33] Brandon: I did, Kate, and I'm going to share extremely vulnerable. It's hard for me, not because of me, but because of everyone else involved. There's a victim involved. There's my family and their family involved. So, you know what? If these consequences were just about us, like, it's just me, life's just about me, it doesn't sound as bad. But when you really peel it back and go, how many people were affected by this decision? That's where it really gets hard for me. So yes, Friday, 13th September, 2008.

[00:15:01] Kate: Wow.

[00:15:02] Brandon: Yeah. An omen, right? I had played, like I alluded to earlier, 15 years of baseball. I'm a routine-oriented guy. We do this at this time. We stretch in the fourth inning because I was a reliever, yada, yada. And so it just had no different feel than any other day. So I decided to go out. We do go out, go out with all these young guys. We're having fun. Seems fun at the time. We're having drinks.

[00:15:23] And again, sometimes people can handle that, and that's fine for them. But I knew that it wasn't good for me. It wasn't good for my dad and a long line of Puffers. And so I'm out there doing that, just acting like everything's going to be okay. I get to a point where I'm well over served.

[00:15:38] I'm out of my character by a lot. I had also taken Adderall that night to pitch. So the system, the motor would not turn off, and I'm just go, go, go, go, go. There was a couple of older gentlemen who was our pitching coach and our clubhouse manager that-- the young guys were having fun, like, Oh, Puff's in rare form. Let's go, Frank the Tank.

[00:15:56] But they were like, "Are you okay? This isn't you normally, right?" And I'm like, "Oh yeah, I'm good. I'm good." Well, they had enough foresight to go, "It's probably time to go home. You definitely shouldn't drive." So they took me back to their apartment. We're after midnight now. It's late, late, late.

[00:16:12] And a lot of this, Kate, I get from them because I was in a bit of a blackout, which is zero excuse. I'm just saying after the fact, I go out, I'm at their apartment, and I just keep saying, "I'm going to go see if my friend's having a party." And what that meant was I had stayed in that complex the year before.

[00:16:28] And there was a young lady. We had babysat her daughter. My family and I, who would always have parties, and she'd always invite us up and we just, "No, we're good. Thank you." And in my mind, this is again, after a long time of self-reflection, I guess I was feeling like she's probably having a party. I'm ready to keep going.

[00:16:42] Obviously, that's not the case. So I walk out. Eventually, they give up on trying to babysit me. I'm a grown man, and they go, "Hey, do whatever you're going to do." And I walk out, I go over to that apartment. I knock on the door. I get no answer because it's 3:00 in the morning by this time, and I checked the door handle and it was unlocked.

[00:16:58] And I walked right in. Yeah, I walked in. I went and tried to get in bed with this lady. I'd met her one time. I was not invited. There was no reason for me to be there other than just bad intentions. And what I heard and what I remember the most is I frightened her and she screamed.

[00:17:15] I have four daughters. I have a wife. I'm speaking to you. Every time I tell this, I'm like, what I did to that young lady's security, horrible. Just a terrible thing. And so I ran out, jumped down what I guess was 19 steps. I don't remember that. And I was arrested shortly after in the parking lot. So I think someone had heard the commotion, called the police. They arrested me. I ended up at the station.

[00:17:37] Now, the next morning I wake up, I hear my name over an intercom. I look around and this is my first realization of what the heck's going on. The guy who had bailed me out was our clubhouse manager. I got in the car, I got the paperwork, and I said, his name's Boyder, "Boyder, what the heck's going on, man?"

[00:17:56] And he goes, "you called me last night. I hoped you were kidding, but I came to check and thank goodness I did." So I get the papers. My first initial reaction, Kate, was, "Oh, I know who that is. It's a friend of mine. Take me over there. We'll make this okay. I didn't mean any harm, whatever."

[00:18:11] And he's like, "I don't think that's a good idea." And still the mentality of like, everything's just going to go away. We're going to sweep it under the rug. This is not that big of a deal. And so what I ended up getting my charges, really hard, it was burglary. Not hard to say. It was deserving, but burglary of a habitation. I walked in uninvited with the intent to commit sexual assault. And that's the tough part. And my intentions weren't good.

[00:18:34] I struggled with that word intent. I had this visual of beating down a door and forcing someone. But at the end of the day, that's the situation I put myself in. And I had an attorney that just kept saying, just tell me you had a reason. Just tell me you were having an affair. I'm like, "No, I just walked over, and that's what I did."

[00:18:50] And so even after that, Kate, to be honest with you, I didn't tell anybody. I went to the field. I finished on our two game, our championship series. I went home back to Austin. This was up in the Dallas area where I was playing. And again, let's start my off season. Let's just, ooh, that was a bad choice. I'd never experienced that before. Let's try to get some things together. And it just wasn't going to be that easy. I say, God, for me, my higher power, it was like, not this time.

[00:19:16] Things are going to be different this time. And so how that looked for me is about a week into the off season, a media relations guy from our team called me and said, "Hey, Puff. How's your off season going? Small talk. "Oh, I'm doing great." And he said, "Did you get a little trouble down here before you left?"

[00:19:32] I said, "I did, but how'd you know that?" And he said, "A pretty big syndicate reached out asking questions. And I wanted to give you a heads up because when they do that, they're typically going to run a story." And so that's where the jig was up, as they say. And everything that happens in the dark is illuminated in the light.

[00:19:47] Text my family. Said, "Heads up, I made a poor choice. I'm sorry. I love you. And let's just deal with this as what it is." And so I had nine months out on bond where I was just figuring life out. Baseball teams were calling. It was that time of year. And I'm like, "Guys, I got to figure my life out. I don't know what going to happen to me."

[00:20:05] The only thing I ever looked at on the Internet, Kate, ever-- I didn't want to look at it. It was coming out. I was hearing things. I was with my family, got kiddos. I didn't want to look at it. Didn't want to hear the noise. And I pulled it up one day, and I just never forget reading, "Former Houston Astros reliever faces 5 to 99 years in prison."

[00:20:25] And that was the first time I was like, "What? Wait, what?" And my attorney's like, I've been trying to tell you how important this is. Something in me was just still like, okay, I didn't really mean. Feel free to interject or ask questions, but that's the night and how that went down and then it would lead to the nine months on bail.

[00:20:43] I went to a jury trial, lasted three days, very surreal, very out-of-body experience, had guys like Nolan Ryan coming in as a character witness, which is neat they would do that, but at the same time, it's so embarrassing that you're meeting these people from your baseball life in this capacity. And so I, yeah, I got the five-year sentence.

[00:21:03] They handcuffed me on the spot. I said, can I go say bye to my dad and give him a hug? And they said, no. And I walked off into that prison cell, where they took all my belongings, stripped me down in my clothes. They closed the bars. I can hear it right now, audibly, a clank. And I just said, "All right, that's it. This is where I got me. This is my decisions, trying to manipulate my way out."

[00:21:25] Every prayer to that point was, keep me out of prison. I'll be a good boy. This was different. It was like, okay, I got to completely rearrange my thoughts, my life, everything I'm doing. And again, for me, surrendering to God and just going, whatever you have from this point on, this is where I got myself. So we'd walk that out, but yeah, I went and be a long-winded.

[00:21:46] Kate: Wow. No, thank you for sharing all of that. And it's just the thought that's coming to my head through. I'm listening, and every time I listen, I always think of the next question, but the question that's coming through right now, and forgive me if it seems odd, but the question that's on my heart is, do you feel in some ways having to be held accountable and go to prison saved your life?

[00:22:12] Brandon: 100%. There's no doubt about it. Yeah, there's no doubt about it. And the question I get often is, would you change anything about that night? And what I would change is causing that young lady that fear, that lack of security. Clearly, I would change that, what my family had to go through. But in terms of what I needed personally, it's what I needed.

[00:22:32] And I see now, looking back, all the plans that were laid out for my life and all the things I was supposed to be doing. And I keep saying it, but like I said, it's not a faith-based podcast, but for me, it's hard to share without it, was like God going, you're still there. You still have a plan for your life. You still have meaning and purpose, but not like this. We need to take care of this stuff.

[00:22:55] And so Jonah in the Bible got three days in the belly of the whale. I'm a little knucklehead. God's like, well, you need three and a half years. So we're going to put you away in a timeout for about three and a half years. And then even then, Kate, it's obviously not fun. It's not a good environment.

[00:23:09] All the things that you see on TV, it stinks. You see a lot of stuff you don't want to deal with, but worse than that is just not having the touch of your family, not being able to just reach out, not being able to be surrounded and having to always put on this face of like, I can't show weakness.

[00:23:24] So you have to be super intentional about making yourself rehabilitate when you're in there. You really do. It's not just going to happen. And so, fortunately, with my upbringing and my family and just some support, that was my mindset, is like, I'm going to spend every moment of this thing becoming a better version of me.

[00:23:42] And so after three and a half years, coming out, stepping out on the outside, starting all over, literally all my entire life had changed to that point. I don't know how to explain it other than I found peace. We talked about that God shaped hole or that hole inside of us. I found peace in there.

[00:23:59] It was like, here it is. And I gotten to where I was positive every day. Some guys would find out you played and they're like, "You live that life that we're watching and you're in here and you're positive and you're happy." And I'm like, "You know what? I didn't have that joy when I played. It was all about the next good outing or the next contract or the next whatever. I wish I could go back and do my career over again, knowing that that doesn't define me. Give it all you have and be passionate. But what you do on that field doesn't define you." And so I didn't have that. I was always chasing that next thing. And that joy and peace was found while I was in prison and it's carried over.

[00:24:35] Kate: Because it was a choice, what I'm just hearing. I'm listening so deep because there's so many directions I could go with this conversation, but I'm really hearing the theme of the power of our choices and decisions. And what's great about that is that it's free to make a decision or choice.

[00:24:51] And you could have gotten away with this unfortunate situation. That woman can be scarred for life, but you could have just swept that under the rug, or, okay, I got away with that and then maybe you're clean and sober for a bit, but then you have another Friday, the 13th night, and something happens and somebody dies, you or somebody else because of a decision. And you keep going down that.

[00:25:12] So this was almost like God wrapping you in his arms and saying like you said, we're going to give you a big adult timeout and softened your heart and changed your brain in a way that despite being in the most deplorable conditions that any person can be in, in prison, that you chose and decided that you were going to let it make you better.

[00:25:33] And then what you did with that. And sometimes everything, in your case, literally lost everything. Everything has to be stripped away so that our old identity can die. Because there's no family members even around to remind us who we were or Nolan Ryan or anybody to say, "No, you're this talented baseball pitcher. No, you're the fun guy to go get drunk with. Here's your money. You're fabulous. Everything's stripped away."

[00:25:58] So you are forced to create a whole new identity and decide, "Who do I want to be?" And I think the message of this, God forbid, anything troubling happens to us on that level, but that you don't have to go to prison to start making dramatically different decisions.

[00:26:13] And so whomever's listening, whatever your thing is, whatever came to mind, ding, ding, ding, because I think we can all do better. And as I like to say, if I can do it, you can do it. And in this case, I'm like, if Brandon can do it from prison, we can all do it.

[00:26:30] Brandon: Well, I love how you articulated that, Kate. That was so perfect. And I would just of piggyback off of that for anyone listening to say, yeah, literally right this second could be the moment where you just go, no more. I'm not doing that. That's not how we act anymore. I don't have permission to do that anymore.

[00:26:46] When I get upset or sad or mad, I don't go get drunk or I don't go be promiscuous or I don't go-- whatever your thing is, it's like today's the day. And then the other part of that is, and obviously, this is a huge mess up, but also just because you mess up once or you make a poor choice here or there does not disqualify you from a purpose, a life of giving back and service.

[00:27:08] That's another way the enemy gets us. It's like, why you? You screw up all the time. And then we just give up. We're like, "You know what? You're right. I can't even get this right." However many times you have to keep falling and getting back up and falling and getting back up. Just don't stop. Don't quit. Every single day, wake up and go, okay, new day. Let's go. And we have consequences that follow us.

[00:27:25] But at the same time, we don't have to live in that. And I know guilt and shame has been a big thing for me. I'm several years down the road here, and it's still not gone. It's still a conscious choice of, I walk out the door. What do people know? Do they know I'm this guy? Do they know I'm that guy? Do we know whatever? And it's like, that's just that little voice trying to like tear you down. But making that conscious choice every day, conscious choice to go, no, that's not who I am.

[00:27:48] I know who I am, and I'm going to keep acting this way. And then gosh, the redemption story, that's the fun part. Sitting in that place, there were things said between me and God, like, I know I'll never be a part of baseball again. I screwed that up. I know I'll never have a real great relationship.

[00:28:03] Who's going to love me after something like that? I'm not lovable. Real things that go through your mind. And then to fast forward and go, oh my gosh. Little by little, we've built this great program to help mentor young men through baseball and young women through softball and an awesome wife.

[00:28:19] And oh, the best part, Kate, by far, and I'll be speaking at a prison Saturday, and I always hit on this part, it's like, guys, I did not speak to my daughters for two years. I did not hear their voice because their mom did what she needed to do. She went back home. She did exactly what she needed to do. That's not on her. But the phone system wasn't set up because it was expensive. So I talked to my parents a little bit.

[00:28:42] My son was with them. We got to keep in contact. When I say not a peep for two years, to the point where my little baby girl, Ashlyn, who just turned 17, I was just at her house for her birthday, she was a baby. And my other daughter, her sister, Morgan, the first time they got the phone hooked up after two years, long story, but for the sake of time, I knew that phone call was coming, and I couldn't believe it after all that time.

[00:29:06] I couldn't wait. And Morgan got on, and it was like we never were apart. And then this is the quote I'll always remember, and we talk about it openly as a family, me, Ashlyn, and Morgan, and now the little grandson named Berkley through Morgan. It's like, do you remember that time I was on the phone with Morgan and she said, "Hey, Ashlyn. Daddy's on the phone. Do you want to talk to him?" I was in prison. And she said, "Morgan, that's not my daddy. That's your daddy." And you talk about a gut punch.

[00:29:31] But the reason I share it, and I'll share it this Saturday with those guys, I'll go, no matter how far apart you are removed right now, no matter how you can never visualize redemption with your family, if you saw  Ashlyn and I today together, and that was the one who didn't even know her dad, it's possible. You just have to own your mistakes. You've got to change your behavior. You've got to walk one step at a time humbly.

[00:29:55] I needed it, but I had to take some real humbling jobs coming out, and I had to work my way back into trust and all those things that take time because, let's be honest, Kate. Had I got out and just said, yeah, I'm going to go back to my same behavior and forget you guys, I'm still that same old guy. I was so full of confidence, fake confidence. Then everyone would be like, "Oh, okay, you got it."

[00:30:14] But no, it wasn't that way. It was like, man, I don't deserve anything. I don't even know where to go. And they were like, let us help you. Let us show you. So yeah, I love sharing the the hard stuff because I think people need to hear it. And then the redemption stuff is just like, it can be better than you've ever imagined.

[00:30:28] Kate: It's so beautiful. And what I'm hearing is the importance and the power of making decisions from our power, not from our powerlessness. The decision to go get wasted, especially against better judgment, it's a feeling of powerlessness that we're trying to overcompensate for or cover up or numb or suppress and try to get power back.

[00:30:49] And there's no power and being wasted, as we all know. I've been wasted plenty of times. I was 22 and dumb once too. And then seeking something outside of ourselves, the pleasure from someone through sex, who's not our partner and is not a willing participant, or the shopping, the drugs, whatever it is, ultimately, it's trying to cover up our own feelings of powerlessness.

[00:31:11] And what's interesting for me is that you own all of that and then you go to prison and you had to really get in touch with your true power, not what you look like, how much money you make, how many strikes you've thrown, any of that stuff, but sit there and just go within. And then to be able to teach that, first of all, to survive that and not come out bitter, resentful, come out and commit another crime, come out and be estranged from your family forever. What was it with you? What is something that we can all tap into from the darkest of dark hell hole places to come out and be a transformed person?

[00:31:51] Brandon: Yeah. That's a great question, Kate. For me, it's just realizing that you're a part of something so much bigger and it's just really not about us. Rick Warren, who wrote the forward to my book, wrote a very powerful book called Purpose Driven Life, and the very first sentence is it's not about you. And to that point in my life, everything was about me. It was my career. Yeah, we're all that way.

[00:32:14] Kate: And I'm only laughing because my coach said to me recently in the sweetest tone-- sorry to interrupt. She was so nice about it. She said, "The world doesn't revolve around you, Kate." And then she paused. She said, "It doesn't revolve around me." And I knew what she meant by that, and it wasn't shifting me. Because you want to be like, it does revolve around me. It doesn't. News flash.

[00:32:39] Brandon: I know. And in our world, it does because that's what's right in front of us. And so, yeah, that pursuit of just the career, whatever it was, all those pursuits we already spoke about. And then I realized, guess what, I sit in the cell, that world just goes by. And it really does. It just goes by, and it's a big, big world.

[00:33:00] If you took that aerial view of not just where we are, but the big view, it's like, I won't say I'm not special. We're all super special, but I'm not that important. Even if we're important in what we do, we're just not, and I'm still learning that. Now it shows up for me as I get offended and I get mad at someone.

[00:33:19] I fire off a text or I say something, and it's like, it's about you again, man. They're not even thinking about it like that. And so when I was in that time, that difficult time, obviously I was in a lot of prayer. I had an upbringing that involved faith and things of that nature. And so that was huge for me.

[00:33:34] But like you said earlier, higher power, the universe, whatever it is that you're tapping into, it's going, look, this is not about me. This is bigger than me. I was put here for a purpose, and that purpose might not be what I thought it was. My path has veered back into the baseball world and coaching and mentoring and those types of things.

[00:33:53] But it wasn't how I envisioned it. The Rangers, at the time of my arrest, were setting me up to be a player coach. I was going to coach pro ball for the rest of my life and just be on the road. Just not a great lifestyle for me and my demons. And so now I'm at home. I'm around my family. I go home every day.

[00:34:09] I'm still involved in it, but it was almost as if, again, him saying, I've got a GPS, and that's the name of our program, but this is not a shameless plug. I promise you. It's if you plug in that address and it's like, here's your purpose, here's your destination, you can go off track all you want.

[00:34:25] We can just right and left and bumpy roads and rocky and whatever. But what's it going to do? It's going to reroute you. It's going to reroute you. It's going to reroute you. And it's going to take longer. It's going to be more painful. You might cost you more, but you're going to get back to that.

[00:34:39] Here's what your purpose always was. You just didn't see it. And so that's what happened when I started going, okay, just walking one day at a time. What do you have for me today? Can I encourage someone? Whatever it is. And I have terrible days. People always say, are you having a bad day? I'm like, "Of course, I do."

[00:34:53] Half the stuff I put out, I need it more than anybody else. But going down that path of encouragement, positivity, seeing the world as bigger than me and having a purpose has really helped me to be a little bit more positive during the day. And I want to kind of touch on a point that you mentioned before.

[00:35:09] I met people, men in there in prison, that are never getting out. I met men that were phenomenal men, that were artistic, that were smart, intelligent, well read, well spoken. And their one night involved, as you mentioned earlier, someone dying or whatever, God forbid, the case may be. And they're just not getting out, and they've accepted it. They get it. But it's like, God, this is a good person.

[00:35:33] And I was like everybody else. I just thought prison's just full of just animals and they're all bad people and whatever. That's where they belong. What I found out is, not necessarily. It's mostly that one bad choice almost always not in your right mind. And now you're paying that consequence for whatever that time period is. And for many it's forever. And so, yeah, I guess just perspective. I got another chance. And so what am I going to do with it is a big thing.

[00:35:59] Kate: I like that. And then being able to share it with those of us on the outside. But when you go to the prisons whether they're getting out or not, to give them some hope. Listen, now with the Menendez case, who is a very popular case and murdered both of their parents, if you don't know about it, you can go look it up. It's everywhere. But that they may be getting the resentence and may be getting out. They were sentenced to life without parole.

[00:36:21] And so there's always that hope too. I don't want a lot of them to hold on to that hope that they may get out, but then what do you want your life to be on the inside? You can get degrees. You can be a teacher in there. You can do so many things in there to help uplift society. That was one of my takeaways working as a journalist and visiting the prison systems.

[00:36:39] It was eye-opening for me. I think what it was good for me is because we tend to judge people, certain groups of people based on race, religion, sex. If you're in jail, if you're not in jail, you committed a crime, you didn't commit a crime. And I was touched by how tender some of the-- I've met a lot of men in there, how tender they were. And they would explain to me what happened, and they had remorse. They were like, "I was 18." And again, one night or day, one decision.

[00:37:08] It's so mind boggling. So I think it's just that importance of being more mindful with our daily choices, even how we care for ourselves, how we treat other people. But when you go back to prison, what is this message that is most important for you to deliver?

[00:37:23] Brandon: Yeah, it's a few things for sure, but it's what we spoke about earlier in terms of, okay, there's a reason you're here. And if you're not owning that right now, then you're not heading in the right direction. The biggest thing is, okay, whatever you're here for, whether you think you deserve it, you didn't deserve it, whatever the case may be, you're here.

[00:37:41] And so we've got to own that. That's number one. Just own that choice. Own your part in it. If it was like, oh, well, I was just here and this person did this, you're around the wrong people. Whatever it is, just own your part. So then you can begin to heal that part, work on getting some better mechanics and the mindset, the cognitive thinking. I took cognitive intervention when I was in prison.

[00:38:02] I had the sweetest older lady teacher. Miss Buley was awesome. I wish I could find her. And it was a nine-month course. And when I finished, she said, "Do you want to take it again?" I said, "Yes." So she flipped me in it again. And then the third time she goes, "The warden is going to make me kick you out because people are waiting, but we'll go one more round."

[00:38:19] I couldn't get enough of it. It was like, I didn't know any of this. So anyway, whatever way you can better yourself while you're there, but also showing your family that. Even when I wasn't talking to my girls, I was writing letters all the time, and they remember that stuff. So don't give up hope.

[00:38:33] And the biggest one though, I think that we touched on is-- because I know. I've sat there. I have felt the feeling of it's never going to be the same again. I'm never going to recover from this. And that's a hard thing to do, but time goes by and you're like, there's just no way.

[00:38:47] I can't see it. But when other people come back, and they would do that for me too, that's why I'm intentional about doing it, and they would-- God bless anybody that goes in and speaks at a prison, but if they went in and they said, "Oh, we're coming in to encourage you," and they've never done it, and then they leave, I'm like, "I love it. Thank you so much for spending your time." But I go back to my cell going, they don't understand what I'm going through.

[00:39:08] Kate: Yeah.

[00:39:08] Brandon: [Inaudible] did, and I go, wait, wait, wait, that guy, he did 10 years. He did five years, 10, whatever. Look at him now. I would hold onto that and go, "It's possible." You just got to do the work. It's possible. So that's my message to those guys when I go back, is guys, you can still have a major purpose. Your life, in fact, does have a purpose if you're willing to look for it and work for it. And redemption within your family, within your community, within all these things are possible, but you've got to do the work.

[00:39:36] Again, if you just get out and you're in the same choice of decisions, we're going with the same result. We know that. So just encouraging them with the fact that there is life after prison and encouraging them to stay intentional about the choices that people that are around. And that doesn't change for me today. I can make that choice the other way today.

[00:39:53] I could go the wrong way and hang out the wrong person. We're always one day, one choice away from that. So just being consistent. And I wish I could tell people it goes away. The addiction, eventually it's just going to lift. Every single day at the end of the day, I feel like I ran a marathon in my head from just making sure I'm not letting that beast out of the box.

[00:40:15] I'm making the right decisions and choices. And again, that's just my life. There's certain people that don't deal with that. I usually surround myself with a few people that do, so they can relate and go, "Man, I get it. Yeah, I get it." And I've also had people say, "Yeah, I don't struggle with any of that anymore." And I'm like, "That's awesome." But for me, I feel like I've always got to be on guard. I just really do.

[00:40:37] Kate: Yeah. So are you sober now?

[00:40:38] Brandon: I am. I've been 17 years sober.

[00:40:40] Kate: Wow, congratulations.

[00:40:41] Brandon: Since that day. Since that day. Yeah.

[00:40:42] Kate: Since that day.

[00:40:44] Brandon: Yeah, yeah. Thank God. Yes. So I have been, and it's one of those things, like I said, I don't have permission to do it. I can go out. I love listening to live music, and I'm at a point now where we can go out to a bar with my wife and she may have a drink. And when we first got together, she's like, "Does that affect you?" I'm like, "Thank God it doesn't anymore." There was a time where that would have been difficult.

[00:41:05] It doesn't affect me. And what I know, Kate, is that's me. That's my story. That's my bent or my wiring for alcohol. My brother was raised by the same exact parents, God fearing, great upbringing. He has a liquor cabinet in his house. Can social drink with friends, be responsible. Be a normal adult, if you will. And I just can't. It just doesn't work for me. So yes, I am sober. I've been 17 years sober, and at least today I'm going to be sober.

[00:41:31] Kate: Congratulations. What did you do with all the shame and guilt and judgment? Because that's a huge theme. And I know, again, it's a daily choice because, even the other day, I got a little triggered by something that I did. Why did you make that decision? And I could have gone to start beating myself up.

[00:41:51] And when we're beating ourselves up, we tend to make destructive choices. I'm like, "Okay, we've been there, done that. We're not going down that path." And then I did move into compassion for myself, and it's like, well, because of some things from the past, you were in this state. This is where your self-worth was at the time, and I have a lot of empathy and compassion for that.

[00:42:09] And so from that place, it made sense that I made that decision. And now we know that that doesn't work. And we did a lot of healing and self-growth from that, that even if I was tempted again, I would make a different decision. But it can bring up even years past some of these bad decisions.

[00:42:26] The guilt can come up, the judgment, even if we're in a good place. But we worry about the people on the internet, or you go to get a job, or someone Googles you and all they see is sexual assault or intent to commit sexual assault. And they immediately shame, shun, judge you, put you in a box. We've all been there. Again, it doesn't have to be your situation, but stuff for me is coming up. So how did you manage all of that in a healthy way?

[00:42:56] Brandon: It's a great question, and the answer is I'm still managing it every day. Again, I would love to say I did this, this, and this. And I'm free again--

[00:43:07] Kate: Now it's--

[00:43:07] Brandon: Yeah, but it's intentionality. It goes back to intentionality, accountability partners, being more vulnerable and transparent instead of acting like-- because I've been put in roles of leadership again. And now it's my bent or my default again, is like, oh, don't show any weakness because these people look up to you. And it's like, no, remember. Remember where that got you.

[00:43:26] So I've got a Bible study of some big burly buddies that we think alike, we act alike, and it started like, will you facilitate this? And in week 1, I'm like, "Just so you know, guys, this is for me. This is for you. I don't have it going on. Here's what I struggle with." And they're like, "Oh." So just getting it out there and just being on-- the guilt and shame part, that helps. But I have to come to terms with, I'm never going to be able to erase that.

[00:43:51] And certain people are going to hold that against me forever. They really will. My wife and I have had a few instances where we were in rentals before we were getting in our house and it came up, where we moved into a new neighborhood and a neighbor took it upon themself to knock on everybody's door.

[00:44:05] Kate: No.

[00:44:06] Brandon: Yeah. Like the big bad wolf slug is in our neighborhood. And someone at the pool who was close with me and got to really know us that I just, I want you to know this because I don't want it to be something you don't know, and I would rather know. I was like, "Man, you did the right thing. Thank you for that."

[00:44:20] So we made a big Facebook post about who we are and our family, and we get it. We're not going to bother you. If you don't want to be around us, it's okay. And we were fine with that, but here's who we are, and here's what we're doing with it. Also, giving back. When we do things like we're doing today, Kate, or going on a podcast or go in and speak at a, whatever it is, selfishly, I get something out of that. I'm giving back and I feel better about that. And so when I encourage others and I'm vulnerable and transparent about my story, my hope is, like I told you on our texts, that we encourage at least one today, but I also get encouraged when I do it. So I think it's a combination of all those things.

[00:44:56] Kate: Yeah, I really feel your humanity. And for me, it's so refreshing, especially in this day and age in a world where so many people are still so scared to be who they really are. Well, they don't know who they are, sadly, a lot of them, but then this whole pretending or trying to be so cool. I think sometimes being in LA, and I'm not 25 anymore, with people, they're just dripping with insecurity and you see all the plastic surgery, but they just seem so miserable and they act like such jerks at the grocery store or something.

[00:45:24] And I just think, you know what's sexy and hot to me, is being nice to the cashier and striking up a conversation and just talking about these things. Because I find when I talk about my truth, the shame gets kicked to the curb. It has nowhere to go. Or like my ego that tries to come in and say, "Well, who are you to do this?" I'm like, "I'm doing it, so what you got?" And the ego's like, damn, she dropped the mic. It's like, touché.

[00:45:50] And all those voices start shutting up and then now the voices I hear are, I'm so proud of you. Keep going. Stay connected with Brandon and see how you can collaborate. You have a similar mission. And what I find when I go to that other place, or sometimes you can feel people's judgment of you, whatever it is. Or you say, but this person claims to be my friend and they're not even acknowledging my success or they're choosing to talk shit. And it can be really hurtful.

[00:46:18] But then when I'm doing my podcast, I am in so much joy. I am so fulfilled. There's nothing I'd rather be doing than having a conversation like this that I get to share with the world. And like you said, if even one person benefits, it's so worth it. And when I'm in this place, I don't care what other people are saying.

[00:46:36] And I don't care what they're saying about you either, because I'm like, "He's extraordinary." And if someone tried to be like, oh, but he did X, Y, and Z, I would just say, "Have you never made a mistake?" My good friend, Plaxico Burress, who had his gun went off in a nightclub, went to prison. He wasn't trying to hurt anybody.

[00:46:52] He was scared because his teammates just got held up at gunpoint. And people talked so much shit. And I would just always say to people very calmly, "Oh, have you never made a mistake?" And then they don't have anything to say, big or small. And so it's like, we don't want to be judged. First, we have to stop judging ourselves and then extend that grace to others.

[00:47:13] Brandon: That's awesome. Yeah, I love that. My thought is, sometimes when it pops up, it's like competitors either in the same space as me and that's their ace in the hole of like, yeah, but did you see what happened back then? And fortunately, there's just so many people that are like, yes, and we see who they are now, but we're not ever going to be able to negate all that. I can't play defense on all that.

[00:47:38] It's just like, you know what, keep walking it out. Keep doing the best you can. Keep encouraging people. There's not a building I walk into daily from the gym to the grocery store, like you said, whatever, where I don't literally say a prayer. Walking in the parking lot, I'm going, make me be a light in this place today. Just allow me to be a light somehow in this place.

[00:47:57] Maybe that's just smile, walk around, be positive. Maybe someone needs a conversation and we'll just organically get there. But at the end of the day, every time I'm walking in, it's like, just help me be a light in this place, wherever I'm going. And so sometimes it happens, sometimes it doesn't, but I know if I'm intentional about it, my heart's in the right place. I'm good.

[00:48:15] And to your point, I still deal with, Halloween's coming up. I'm like, "Oh, are people going to not want to go to our house?" I told my wife, "Let's just go somewhere so we don't have to worry about it." She's like, "Babe, I'll hand out candy. It'll be okay." So there is still a lot. Just being vulnerable. I don't want to act like, oh yeah, I'm just out here encouraging everyone.

[00:48:33] I don't care. I'm deflecting all that. There's still times where I'm just like, hmm, still in there. Still got to wonder. And in the beginning, I just felt like everybody was thinking that. So I just come right out and be like, "Oh, I just got out of prison. I did that." And then they're like, "You don't have to announce it." If it comes up, good, but shaking that feeling of that's all they see. That's all they see. It's just gotten better over time.

[00:48:57] Kate: If I'm your neighbor, I would want to see you when you hand out the candy, and I would just want to look at you in the eyes and just say, "How are you doing?" Or, "I'm so proud of you." You could have really gone left. Thank you for the work that you're doing. Thank you for talking about it.

[00:49:14] I think what I wish people did more of is, okay, yes, that was a horrible thing that happened, and I want to acknowledge people's pain. What happened to this person where they went and did that? This does not excuse their behavior, because for you, it's much easier. When I think of like a P Diddy, for instance, because it happened for so-- nothing compared what happened to you, obviously, but there's a lot less there.

[00:49:40] And he chose again and again and again and then all the people who enabled it. But still, even as a human, I want to think, what happened there? Because he wasn't born evil. So I think the more grace and compassion that we can extend others, but I see why so many people don't. Because clearly, that neighbor who's like, ah--

[00:50:01] Brandon: Yeah.

[00:50:01] Kate: You see how they treat themselves. And my guess, maybe they probably don't eat well or treat others well or whatever because they don't have that love cultivated from within. So that's my mission with this show too. I think the more that we just tell these stories and we really highlight humanity and help humanity evolve where, again, the prison system, oh my gosh, that's a whole other conversation. Why are we not rehabilitating people? So again, another discussion, but I'm just curious too, were you ever able to apologize or make amends to the victim from that night?

[00:50:36] Brandon: Not officially. So for the longest time, I was not allowed to reach out, and I respected that, obviously. There is a thing called a victim's assistance program where you can write letters. I've tried that. Haven't had that opportunity. I feel like it just needs to happen organically, if it happens. I don't think it's in my court to reach out because I can imagine that could set off some triggers, some tough stuff. So I'm just respectful of it.

[00:50:59] We're always in prayer about it. My wife and I mention it every now and then, just like, if that presents itself, that would be great. If not, that's okay too. But I would really love to be able to, I really would. But I have to respect too, that if I try to find where that person is, reach out, all those things, what that could do to them. But organically, if just that divine appointment of just somehow, some way it happens, I would love it. I would love that opportunity.

[00:51:23] My heart would go out. It'd an emotional one for sure, but it would be a good opportunity. And a quick point to what you said about you would love to just look someone in the eye and say, "Glad you're doing well," for every one or two of those I shared with you, and when we made that post in our neighborhood, we got several like, "Oh my gosh, we've met them at the pool. He was so kind to my son." That part makes me emotional.

[00:51:46] When they talk bad, it's like, eh. When they start doing good and they're like, no, that's not who he is. Get to know him. That's the part that softens me up and goes, "Oh, people do--" So to your point of just people out there, maybe you're judgmental or maybe-- and sometimes you need to be.

[00:52:03] There's people that we want to keep our family away. I get it. I get all of it. I do. I'm a parent. I'm a granddad. I'm like, "Yeah, I want to know who's coaching my kid." And if this is in the past, I want to know what are they doing now? You have every right for that. But if things are on track and things are going well, I can't tell you how far it goes for someone like me to hear or get a text like, "Hey, you've made a huge difference in my son's life," or, "Hey, thank you for your encouragement."

[00:52:26] And you're like, I never thought I'd be in that position again. So that's just as important as the ones that go, oh, throw him away. They made a mistake. We're never going to forgive. That's okay. But there's plenty of people-- I keep coming back to that Facebook post. It was really hard for us.

[00:52:40] We were new to a neighborhood. We bought a home. We're at the pool. They may say we're doing our thing, thinking we're just living life. And then that bomb gets dropped on me, like they've been going door to door on you. And I'm like, "Oh, man. Here it goes. But some of the positive feedback from that was just so refreshing and so encouraging.

[00:52:58] Kate: I won't make you say anything if you don't want to, so it's a two part question, but I'm curious, even if it's just a sentence or a few words that you would want to say to that woman. And then if you don't want to answer that, or if you do, but then I'm so curious if you have, or if you'd be willing to, or what you would say to that version of yourself on that day. What's the letter you write to that man?

[00:53:21] Brandon: I want to answer both. So in terms of what I would say to her-- and let me give you a backstory real quick, Kate. The year before, I mentioned my family, and I stayed in that apartment complex, and she was a single mom. We babysat her daughter several times. Her name was Morgan.

[00:53:38] My daughter's name is Morgan. I'll never ever forget one day I'm just doing what I do with my daughter, being a dad and having fun. And her Morgan said to me, "Mr. Puffer, I wish I had a daddy like you. And I just, eh. And then fast forward a year in the home doing these things. So what I would say is just, look, there is no excuse, no alcohol, no state of mind, no anything that can excuse what I did. Nothing.

[00:54:05] I can't take it back. I wish I could, because I would in a heartbeat. But it really forced me to take a look at myself and try to do more good in the world. And honestly, they inspire me when I think about going to do things. And it's not, I'll go do a whole bunch of good and it'll erase the bad.

[00:54:21] It's just use this for good. Don't let it be in vain. Just don't let it be in vain. I would love to just tell them like, it's not going to take away what I did to you. And I'm sure there's trauma that comes from that and your security forever. I hate thinking about that, but it happened. So I'm going to just do my best to be the best version of me moving forward and encourage people and raise good daughters and just be there for people. That's the best I can do now because I can't change that.

[00:54:47] And then to that guy, it just felt like such an out-of-body experience. I think I tried to explain it one time to somebody, like I thought I got a mask on. I didn't. You see a movie and it just gets intense and they're breathing heavy and they're like-- they're just no good.

[00:55:07] It's demonic almost. I just felt so not myself. And not just that particular time. A lot of times when I got in that state of mind. So I would just tell that guy, like, man, you've got such a bright future. You've got all these people that depend on you, look up to you, love you. They're going to support you and be there for you, but don't do this to them.

[00:55:26] Again, not about me, like not don't do this because you're going to mess up your career, but like, don't do this to your family. Don't make this decision or this choice because you're going to hurt a lot of people. And again, I set the scenario earlier. If someone came to you and proposed a deal, go out drinking with your buddies tonight, and here's what you're going to lose, no way.

[00:55:46] But you don't think about it at that time. So if I could go back and tell that guy like, by the way, here's what that looks like, of course it'd be like, no way, but you don't get that opportunity, but I do get an opportunity to share it. And if someone else gets in that situation, go, look, this was a very expensive, hard lesson for me.

[00:56:05] It doesn't have to be that way for you if you want to just listen and go, "I don't want to go down that path." And I know we all think it won't happen to me, because I thought the same thing. I really did. There's no way. But it will, and it can. My dad told me one time, he said, son-- he got sober when I was in high school, by the way, and it was a huge, huge encouragement to me, just watching the change in his life.

[00:56:24] And he told me, we had a rough night. We were having one of those father-son talks. And he said, "This only ends in prison or death. It's the only way it ends." And I literally said to him, Kate, I said, "Dad, you got sober when you were 35." I was 20 at the time. "So I have all these years to have fun. Again, fun. And go down this path."

[00:56:42] And he's like, "It's not what you think it is." And that's that wisdom of a father and the wisdom of someone who's been through it going, young man, young woman, who's listening, old man, old woman, you don't have to. It could end right now. You can make better choices and learn from me. But I think that sum up what I would say to them and then what I would tell that man who was out of his mind, just acting a fool, honestly, at that time.

[00:57:07] Kate: Wow. Thank you for that. I'll start to wrap it up here, but what is one practice that you feel like you've been able to do consistently since that night till now to love that younger, more wounded version of yourself?

[00:57:24] Brandon: Yeah. It's routine. It's the intentionality of doing some breath work. You mentioned meditation. I was doing that right before we got on. So it's been a busy day and I'm like, it's about to be 3:00. And I'm like, "I don't know, relax, relax." And just breath work. And then I don't think there's anything bigger for me than like that positive mantra that you're telling yourself. The word is eluding me right now. It's a really easy word. When you say good things about yourself, what is that called?

[00:57:51] Kate: The affirmations.

[00:57:52] Brandon: The affirmations. There it is. That word just completely left me.

[00:57:55] Kate: Because you're in your trauma a little bit. It happens to me too. Your brain is just like, yeah. There's a lot of trauma going on here, and you're being so brave talking about all of it so candidly. It's such a gift that you're sharing.

[00:58:07] Brandon: I think the affirmations are huge, huge, huge, huge. Because every day we're going to wake up and immediately it's going to be that thought of, why you? You mentioned it earlier, imposter syndrome. Why would Kate want you on? Why would she want to hear your story? Why do you have a book? Why are you whatever?

[00:58:21] And it's like, no, no, no, no, no, no. Affirmations. And I have them written out. I have them on a bookmark. I have them on my mirror in my bathroom because I need them all the time, all throughout the day. It's not like a one time in the morning and I'm good. And it's like, sometimes it's more often than others.

[00:58:35] But having those affirmations and combating the negative thoughts with positive-- I know we're wrapping up, but one of my favorite books was As a Man Thinketh. And they talked about the mind being like a garden. And it's like, okay, what's going to happen if you quit cultivating, watering, seeding, all that? Is it going to stop growing?

[00:58:52] Well, no, it's going to grow weeds and it's going to be ugly, and you're not going to like it. I think that way about my mind. It's like, it's not going to stop thinking. If you just let it go willy nilly, man, you are going to have some thoughts that are like, "Holy crap, thank God. No one's in my mind." So you've got to combat that with positive.

[00:59:07] You've got to do the seeding and the watering and the mowing and pulling the weeds and all that. So that's it. Affirmations as well as just being very intentional about positive thoughts in your mind.

[00:59:18] Kate: May I share one with you? It's something that I've been saying recently, and it has helped. And I'm feeling a little emotion, I think, because, again, I want to physically give you a hug. I'm really proud of you.

[00:59:30] Thank you. Thank you, Kate. And what's coming through for me is that you deserve peace and you are so worthy of peace. And you deserve love and you're so worthy of love.

[00:59:45] Brandon: Thank you much, [Inaudible].

[00:59:47] Kate: Keep filling in the blank. But I can still sense there's some pain there. Of course, it's a daily thing and it lives in ourselves and we have to constantly clean and do the breath work. And I think I just get so emotional because it has been a lot for you to overcome, and I've overcome a lot too. And I wish we all gave ourselves more permission to even feel-- it sounds silly to say that we're worthy of peace, that we're worthy and deserving of doing what we didn't want to do.

[01:00:16] And we're worthy of connecting on a deeper level than, hey, how you doing? And not really listening to the answer. And we're worthy of compassion rather than judgment. And so I think I'm just so in tune with your humanity and other people who, like you said, may not get another chance at freedom, may not get another chance at whatever. But this story of redemption and of grace, and you just keep going.

[01:00:40] I think there's this notion too, like, okay, everything's great. No, you're going to have challenging moments and days, but you keep going and you lean into the things that work for you-- faith, breath work, meditation, affirmations, a loving spouse, caring for your children, being kind to everybody.

[01:00:55] And I appreciate you sharing so openly because it has touched me. Because there's even a part of me, based on some experiences, it's like, oh, I don't want to have a conversation with someone who's done that. I'm so glad I don't think that way. I'm so glad that I'm so into hearing people's stories and especially people who have been willing, one of my favorite spiritual practices. Dear God, I am willing to see this differently.

[01:01:18] Dear God I am willing to not judge this person or try again or whatever it is. And So thank you for this beautiful message. I hope everybody picks up your book From the Bullpen to the State Pen. I would love for you, though, instead of me crying, it's just like-- I'm just embracing it. And maybe that's the theme of the show. We're healing here. This is the work that I'm called to do, is to heal and help others heal. And so I have to be the poster child for it, shamelessly. Like, we're crying again. Here we go.

[01:01:48] Brandon: I love it. I love it.

[01:01:49] Kate: But I would just love for you to share any final thoughts on your heart with us today. You've been so great. Thank you so much.

[01:01:56] Brandon: Oh, thank you, Kate. Really, just appreciate the opportunity, using your platform to have my story come through. And again, like we said earlier, just real hopeful that we encouraged at least one. And at the end of the day, I just continue to encourage people to just-- I know it's so cliche to say one day at a time, but it's more than that.

[01:02:14] It's like one minute at a time. You might've hopped on this podcast today just feeling awful and down, and maybe you're encouraged, like, now what? Well, just what Kate said. What you just said, I'm writing it on my mirror. I am worthy of love. I'm worthy.

[01:02:28] I'm worthy of peace, and I'm worthy of many more things, but love and peace for sure. Be intentional about that and believe yourself when you say it, because you really are. When you tell me that, I received that. I agree. But then it could be 10 minutes from now where I don't feel worthy of any of it anymore. And I might have to go back to that mirror, that whatever 50 times. I might have to. But do it. It's worth it.

[01:02:54] The only thing-- I know this will touch you based on what you shared with me, the only thing we can't do is quit. That's it. You can fail. You can do it all. Just don't quit. Because as soon as you quit, it's too final, not just for you, but for everybody. So just don't quit. Hang in there to see one more day. Because what we've noticed, Kate, and we've been through some rough stuff, it passes, and we have some awesome days. And it's like, wow, I would have never experienced this had I quit when it looked like I was never getting out of it. So just hang in there. Just keep going.

[01:03:24] Kate: Yeah. And reach out for support. And I like to say these things and declare them and speak them onto your life because there's enough of the junk, as you know. And so to speak over someone and really like-- and I'm looking at you right in the eyes and I'm like, "I hope he's receiving it." And you are. And it's just the days that you don't have it, it's like, no, Kate told me. And you know what? I believe Kate. So maybe today I don't feel worthy of peace, but Kate believes I'm worthy of peace. So, you know what? I'm going to go with Kate today.

[01:03:52] Brandon: Yeah.

[01:03:54] Kate: I'll take her word for it, right?

[01:03:56] Brandon: Yeah, yeah. Absolutely. I love that. No, that's going on the mirror. It's going right up there next to some of the other stuff I have on there right now.

[01:04:04] Kate: Yeah, it's so beautiful. Thank you so much. I'm so grateful for you opening up and sharing because your willingness to heal, that's how we start to heal the world and humanity. And we stop complaining about all the things we don't like. And we start just being a part of the change. And that feels really good.

[01:04:20] And then we get to have that high self-esteem, not because we made a millions of dollars or won the World Series or whatever we did. It's just, I'm healing, and I'm helping my friends and colleagues heal, and that feels really good.

[01:04:34] Brandon: I agree. I love it. Well, thank you for letting me be a part of it.

[01:04:37] Kate: Yeah. Thank you so much. And thanks to all of you for being here and listening to the end. We'll see you right back here next time on Rawish. Have a great day, everybody. Bye-bye.